COVID 19 Discussion

[darksabre]

Just now, Wyldnwoody44 said:

So now the story is we're going to try to restart the economy, what the heck are we doing as a country....we have failed on every level of this, we want our cake and want to eat it too. 

Are we so inept that we can't handle a shutdown of more than a week, don't declare a national emergency and shut down the world due to a virus and then turn it off before the virus actually makes it's course. 

Either this thing is a glorified flu and that's what's coming to light, or this thing is as bad as they say and we are being stupid and greedy. 

The Concept of American Greatness is crumbling before our very eyes and all it took was a challenge we couldn't solve with bombs.

If we're so damn special we would be handling this with efficiency and grace. We'd be leading the global effort to quash this pandemic, less wealthy countries would be praising our leadership.

Instead we're over here baring our butt to the world.

[SABRES 0311]

26 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The Concept of American Greatness is crumbling before our very eyes and all it took was a challenge we couldn't solve with bombs.

If we're so damn special we would be handling this with efficiency and grace. We'd be leading the global effort to quash this pandemic, less wealthy countries would be praising our leadership.

Instead we're over here baring our butt to the world.

Americans and humans as a whole have made it through worse. We will get through this. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by SABRES 0311

[darksabre]

18 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Americans and humans as a whole have made it through worse. We will get through this. 

"getting through this" is hardly a high bar. Hardly exceptional.

The United States should be capable of responding to situations like this in a manner that is second to none. Our wealth alone should allow us to simply buy our way through it with minimal ill effects to people and the economy. Germany is testing 160,000 people per week and is capable of increasing that number. As a result they're identifying infections sooner and have managed to keep their death rate at the lowest in Europe.

There's really no good reason the US shouldn't be doing an even better job, right?

Lots of people lining up to simply excuse the inexcusable.

[SABRES 0311]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

"getting through this" is hardly a high bar. Hardly exceptional.

The United States should be capable of responding to situations like this in a manner that is second to none. Our wealth alone should allow us to simply buy our way through it with minimal ill effects to people and the economy. Germany is testing 160,000 people per week and is capable of increasing that number. As a result they're identifying infections sooner and have managed to keep their death rate at the lowest in Europe.

There's really no good reason the US shouldn't be doing an even better job, right?

Lots of people lining up to simply excuse the inexcusable.

You can only control your little sphere of life just like me and everyone else. Situation sucks but you can have impact on those around you better than what you are worrying about. 

[Stoner]

8 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I don't think the shutdown is ending next week, at least not in NYS.

That's just it. The president doesn't run the country or the economy. AKA federalism.

[Zamboni]

Vice President Pence just announced 2,000 ventilators are arriving to NY later today. 
And another 2,000 will arrive tomorrow.

So that’s good news!

[Stoner]

4 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Wrong, some posters here have proven over and over and over again that they can’t have an adult discussion about this topic without using insulting words, insulting names, and immature grandstanding and statements.

it’s nice when you can click into this thread and get information about this virus. Non-political facts. A lot of posters here are biting their tongue and holding back on political opinions because it doesn’t help the discussion of the facts. There is a thread to discuss politically driven opinion and politically driven discussion about this virus. And it shouldn’t be this thread.

That's garbage. "Trump is a piece of *****" and "Trump's decision to re-open the economy would endanger lives" are both political statements. I'd ban the first and allow the second. Let's not throw out the baby with bath water.

I'd urge nfreeman to let up and give us all a chance to make it work here. The last election? That was a time when politics was sport. Trash talking was part of it. This is a far different time.

[Stoner]

Or... can we have one thread for Covid-19 facts and news and one for Covid-19 discussion (including discussion of government response)?

12 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Vice President Pence just announced 2,000 ventilators are arriving to NY later today. 
And another 2,000 will arrive tomorrow.

So that’s good news!

This comes from a political place (you inherently believe what he's saying). And I'm fine with it.

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Or... can we have one thread for Covid-19 facts and news and one for Covid-19 discussion (including discussion of government response)?

This comes from a political place (you inherently believe what he's saying). And I'm fine with it.

I’m repeating what he said. Full stop. No opinion. No commentary.

If you want to add opinion or commentary and spin. Go for it. I’m not interested in that garbage.

[Stoner]

5 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I’m repeating what he said. Full stop. No opinion. No commentary.

If you want to add opinion or commentary and spin. Go for it. I’m not interested in that garbage.

Your post wasn't objective. The announcement isn't good news. When the ventilators arrive, that's good news.

[darksabre]

46 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

You can only control your little sphere of life just like me and everyone else. Situation sucks but you can have impact on those around you better than what you are worrying about. 

Worrying about myself is hardly the issue here. The discussion at hand is about our ability as a nation to respond to challenges like this in a way that we can be proud of. We love talking about how badass we are, bragging about all the wars we win and all the money we have. Home of the brave, land of the free.

The response to this has completely betrayed that motif. If this is what American Exceptionalism looks like then we're a nation of suckers.

I think most people, though, want to believe in that exceptional vision of America. It's why so many people have actually stayed home, why so many people are following the recommendations our state leaders and health officials are making. The people are taking this seriously because we want to do this the best we can.

The problem is that we, the little guy, are currently being let down by our Federal Government; you know, the one that flies the stars and stripes and demands global respect.

We, the little guy, deserve better than this.

35 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Vice President Pence just announced 2,000 ventilators are arriving to NY later today. 
And another 2,000 will arrive tomorrow.

So that’s good news!

2,000 ventilators is a joke. It's a crumb. NYS needs at least ten times that amount.

[SABRES 0311]

21 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Worrying about myself is hardly the issue here. The discussion at hand is about our ability as a nation to respond to challenges like this in a way that we can be proud of. We love talking about how badass we are, bragging about all the wars we win and all the money we have. Home of the brave, land of the free.

The response to this has completely betrayed that motif. If this is what American Exceptionalism looks like then we're a nation of suckers.

I think most people, though, want to believe in that exceptional vision of America. It's why so many people have actually stayed home, why so many people are following the recommendations our state leaders and health officials are making. The people are taking this seriously because we want to do this the best we can.

The problem is that we, the little guy, are currently being let down by our Federal Government; you know, the one that flies the stars and stripes and demands global respect.

We, the little guy, deserve better than this.

2,000 ventilators is a joke. It's a crumb. NYS needs at least ten times that amount.

Our country is great because of the so called little people. I could care less what another country thinks. 

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

I could buy a house tomorrow if my student loan debt was eliminated.

At the very least I would have a lot more money to pump into the much vaunted "economy" so that all the wall street people could see their little chart go up.

They should consider doing it down the road if the economic shock ends up lasting longer than planned.

edit: I want to add that student loan debt is ultimately a symptom of a broken system. Higher education in the United States is completely out of whack given the supposed greatness of our nation. If we're truly the "greatest county in the world" we need to fix higher education at any cost. If we don't then we're just full of sh*t.

The edit is a giant catch-22 though. Our education costs are so high because we have a willingness to loan out absurd amounts of money for degrees that aren’t worth absurd amounts of money. The increase in the cost of college matches up almost perfectly with our increase in financial aid and guaranteed student loans. As long as student loans are guaranteed the cost of education will continue to increase. 

[darksabre]

Just now, SABRES 0311 said:

Our country is great because of the so called little people. I could care less what another country thinks. 

That's not the point. The point is that if we believe we're #1, then we have to act like it. And that means expecting our government and our institutions to rise to the occasion when challenged. This is about our expectations for our nation.

Certainly we should expect better than this.

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

The edit is a giant catch-22 though. Our education costs are so high because we have a willingness to loan out absurd amounts of money for degrees that aren’t worth absurd amounts of money. The increase in the cost of college matches up almost perfectly with our increase in financial aid and guaranteed student loans. As long as student loans are guaranteed the cost of education will continue to increase. 

I agree with you. And it got this way because a bunch of very clever people figured out how to turn higher education into an industry that you have very little choice but to participate in.

A lot of people would forego college and the associated costs if the job market wasn't looking for Master's Degrees for entry level jobs.

My parents generation (boomers) were raised on the idea that everyone could and should go to college. But that model has become unsustainable and we need to dismantle it. And student loans are a huge part of that.

[SABRES 0311]

4 hours ago, darksabre said:

That's not the point. The point is that if we believe we're #1, then we have to act like it. And that means expecting our government and our institutions to rise to the occasion when challenged. This is about our expectations for our nation.

Certainly we should expect better than this.

Yes it is the point. The ball got dropped. Doesn’t mean the country as a whole is a joke. 

To address an earlier comment. The U.S. is good at warfighting because we have been in quite a few conflicts throughout our great nation’s history. Pandemics within our borders, not as much. To put it bluntly practice makes perfect. 

Im not completely disagreeing with your assessment of how the issue has been handled. I’m disagreeing with your original statement that our greatness is crumbling. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by SABRES 0311

[LGR4GM]

18 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Yes it is the point. The ball got dropped. Doesn’t mean the country as a whole is a joke. 

To address an earlier comment. The U.S. is good at warfighting because we have been in quite a few conflicts throughout our great nation’s history. Pandemics within our borders, not as much. To put it bluntly practice makes perfect. 

Im not completely disagreeing with your assessment of how the issue has been handled. I’m disagreeing with your original statement that our greatness is crumbling. 

Question, are other developed countries asking the US for help or using the US model to combat this? The answer is no because we simply are not the greatest country in the world anymore. Isolationism has a price. 

22 hours ago, darksabre said:

"getting through this" is hardly a high bar. Hardly exceptional.

The United States should be capable of responding to situations like this in a manner that is second to none. Our wealth alone should allow us to simply buy our way through it with minimal ill effects to people and the economy. Germany is testing 160,000 people per week and is capable of increasing that number. As a result they're identifying infections sooner and have managed to keep their death rate at the lowest in Europe.

There's really no good reason the US shouldn't be doing an even better job, right?

Lots of people lining up to simply excuse the inexcusable.

Of course. Because it is easier to say, we are good then to look at the reality that is this country completely ***** up preparing for this. 

[LGR4GM]

On 3/23/2020 at 2:57 AM, PerreaultForever said:

BS. I got a warning for posting my frustration with the early Trump response where I quoted your chief medical person. But some people get to say what they want and critique what they want cause they're part of the inner circle. It's total BS and a double standard and I'm simply pointing that out. 

Don't fret, I'm done. I was getting fed up with it ages ago but have tried to play nice. You want a closed little group where you have two tiers of posters have at it. It's a BS culture, just like that of the team. Figures. 

Just glad they closed the border, cause the U.S. response is about as dumb and useless as the moderation of this board. 

Bye. 

And now you have learned. Nfreeman is unfit to serve as a mod with his blatant bias. You can't make any critical remark about his beloved leader without him getting his balls in a knot. I will never interact with him again on this board. Threads he starts or comments he posts or responds to, do not exits to me. He is a hypocrite and a liar. I got warned for posting that Mike Pence, a known science denier, was being put in charge of COVID... inside the COVID thread. what a ***** joke. 

[SABRES 0311]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Question, are other developed countries asking the US for help or using the US model to combat this? The answer is no because we simply are not the greatest country in the world anymore. Isolationism has a price.

So that’s it then? Everything this country has done in its history wiped out because of one administration’s response to a virus. Yeah I don’t think so. 

[darksabre]

43 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

So that’s it then? Everything this country has done in its history wiped out because of one administration’s response to a virus. Yeah I don’t think so. 

That's not what myself or Liger are saying and you know it. Stop being obtuse.

[SABRES 0311]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's not what myself or Liger are saying and you know it. Stop being obtuse.

Oh really.

On 3/24/2020 at 8:40 AM, darksabre said:

The Concept of American Greatness is crumbling before our very eyes and all it took was a challenge we couldn't solve with bombs.

If we're so damn special we would be handling this with efficiency and grace. We'd be leading the global effort to quash this pandemic, less wealthy countries would be praising our leadership.

Instead we're over here baring our butt to the world.

You have all the right in the world to think our country’s greatness is crumbling.

I on the other hand think there are lessons the government should learn and incorporate into future response planning. We are resilient enough to bounce back from this. While we may not be setting the standard for dealing with COVID-19 I guarantee other countries will look to the U.S. on future matters. 

I’m not going to lose faith in our ability to make it through. Its one thing to call out a mistake to fix a problem. Your first paragraph is something else. This country is more than one administration’s failure.

[LTS]

While related, let's fork the discussion of what makes the US great to another discussion and let this be for political discussions about COVID.  The discussion on higher education is outstanding but will be lost and confused in here (or the COVID discussion will).  What do we think?

Now, the stimulus bill should be an interesting topic.  Is it right? Is it wrong?  Is it too quick a reaction or is the reaction right but the scope of the solution a little too much to try and pull off at once?

 

[LGR4GM]

23 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Oh really.

You have all the right in the world to think our country’s greatness is crumbling.

I on the other hand think there are lessons the government should learn and incorporate into future response planning. We are resilient enough to bounce back from this. While we may not be setting the standard for dealing with COVID-19 I guarantee other countries will look to the U.S. on future matters. 

I’m not going to lose faith in our ability to make it through. Its one thing to call out a mistake to fix a problem. Your first paragraph is something else. This country is more than one administration’s failure.

Really.

 

Back to COVID. The video from that hospital is surreal. I would post it to the main channel but I am sure it shows Trump in a bad light so Nfreeman would probably piss all over it. Anyways, here it is... looks like those 4,000 ventilators the orange ***** face gave out aren't enough.

 

[#freejame]

Can someone explain why I shouldn’t be concerned of everyone’s willingness to give up their freedom? Far greater catastrophes could strike with the potential kill far more and I’m afraid for what our response will be then. It’s very easy to give up freedom, it’s very difficult to obtain.  

[Curt]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Can someone explain why I shouldn’t be concerned of everyone’s willingness to give up their freedom? Far greater catastrophes could strike with the potential kill far more and I’m afraid for what our response will be then. It’s very easy to give up freedom, it’s very difficult to obtain.  

The only freedom that has really been suspended is the freedom to gather in large groups.

What would you propose as an alternative course of action for this situation?  Not a rhetorical question.