COVID 19 Discussion

[North Buffalo]

Some of these are hysterical if one sided: https://apple.news/Ai3p7D4t9SNS_cdqYi0CmSg

[Hank]

8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

CNN acting like its bad to say Wuhan Corona Virus. One problem.....

 

 

Now that's funny!!

[SABRES 0311]

I gotta stop looking at the conspiracy sites. Some crazy stuff out there.

[SwampD]

7 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I gotta stop looking at the conspiracy sites. Some crazy stuff out there.

What are some good ones?

[LTS]

7 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I gotta stop looking at the conspiracy sites. Some crazy stuff out there.

 

37 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What are some good ones?

I'd probably be as amused as the next person.  If you want to post some of those, start a new thread though.  If it gets out of hand we'll shut it down.  I could be asking for trouble here.

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

What are some good ones?

COVID 19 is man made to reduce the population 

COVID 19 is being used to test the population’s submission to martial law.

Once you have COVID 19 it never really leaves your body.

1 hour ago, LTS said:

 

I'd probably be as amused as the next person.  If you want to post some of those, start a new thread though.  If it gets out of hand we'll shut it down.  I could be asking for trouble here.

I just saw this after I posted. 

[triumph_communes]

11 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I gotta stop looking at the conspiracy sites. Some crazy stuff out there.

~Make this it's own thread if you want~

It's a tricky one.  Usually 'conspiracy theories' as they are titled to undermine them from the get go, at the very least make the bad guy clear and apparent up front before the rest of the evil narrative is crafted.  Typically events write themselves as you can guess who the bad guy is from the get-go.

 

The WuhuFlu?  Not so simple.

• Let's say it was man-made--who gains?
  • Chinese get to stop political revolutions that have been festering across the Pacific, get to hide their recent bad press with the Uighers, and get a convenient alibi to clean-up all of their critics while they lock-down the state.  Communist control only works as long as thoughts are controlled and they've been losing that war the last few years and need to rebound.  They were losing Trumps trade wars pretty bad anyway and didn't want to admit it-- a self made problem the populace can revolve around can change this.  Keep in mind, the last time a Chinese General talked about WW3, how the US is enemy#1, and how biological warfare is the future a month later SARS broke loose in the country.  Was that an internal mistake?  (If you've ever been to China for an extended period you'd realize that quality control cannot co-exist with their culture of appearances (aka lying) and this is simply Occam's razor at work)
  • Trump/Republicans/Feds get to accelerate the intents of his trade wars (bring critical industry/bulk of manufacturing back home) and kill off a bunch of the boomers who are beginning to decimate the healthcare system as the pyramid scheme policies of the past (both at Federal level and majority of State/major city levels are aging to their reckoning.  Remember the 'lock-box' for your social benefits?  Government has figured out they can just ignore the deficit and solve it on their own as you don't hear about that anymore though it's gotten worse than its ever been.  Short term socialism will outweigh long-term unrest.  Tie all the 'it affects asians more than whites/smokers/etc.' rumors/unsubstantiated evidence into these motives.
  • Democrats ('moderates')/Neocons/Globalists/'Deepstate' Feds get to tank the economy in the short-term, which was the thing they couldn't keep on pretending anymore it was just an extension of 'Obama's legacy' as they were setting up to fail massively in all branches of the government this Fall (and they were).  They get to re-prove to society that governments are there to save you and giving them more control is the only way.  Populist revolutions have been sparking across the globe (Trump,  Brexit, France/Austria/etc., Hong Kong, Brazil) in defiance of globalist policies determined overtly or covertly by the elite and they need an end to it.  Short-term end of trading/etc. doesn't matter as long as governments across the world get more encroaching powers to control the speech of the people, and those are powers people always give-up in times of panic.
• Was it truly a freak accident? 
  • Revenge of the Pangolins?  At the very least, the rule that if the Chinese government quickly knows what a problem is, you can be sure that ISN'T it.  They've proven it could not be 'bat soup'-- this particular virus does not share enough DNA for it to be of bat-origin (but now they're saying Pangolins...)
  • Do you believe in magic?  Do you believe the only Level 4 lab in China is 10 miles from the supposed 'market' the Chinese government quickly pointed to?  Do you believe the US government arresting a Harvard professor for working with this lab/chinese university connected to this lab is coincidence?  Do you believe these family of coronaviruses that were housed in the Canadian Level 4 labs had multiple lost samples and AWOL Chinese dual-citizens over the last few years is also pure coincidence?  The US also caught Chinese military 'grad students' actively stealing virology research and trying to carry samples in their carry-ons a couple months ago..  Did the Chinese intend to make something, then screw up and release it internally?  Again-- Occam's razor.
  • But why was it-- China and Iran hit HARD first before it spread elsewhere?  Isn't that just tooo..convenient for Trump's foreign policy?  Yes.. the Iranians had a holiday where they all kissed the same monuments and they don't sanitize it like they do with the Blarney stone these days.  Yes, urban Chinese people live in shoe-boxes.  Yes, the Korean christians were spraying water into their constituents mouths (while shoved in their mouth) that accelerated their spread, and the entire country lives in one city anyway.  Italians had a 'hug a Chinese person' campaign to combat racism surrounding the disease a week before it hit their country and their own culture of kissing for greeting put them down and out quickly.

 

Any narrative maker could have a field day in many different directions.  They are all plausible enough to be believable.  It can be simultaneously for or against any one cause depending on your outlook.

Edited March 17, 2020 by triumph_communes

[Eleven]

Is there a silver lining--a corona, if you will--to the Wuhan virus?

We're all aware of arena workers who now will be compensated somehow for their loss of income, and of course there was an anticipatory and factually unsupported backlash at the Pegulas for failing to announce a plan the second the NHL suspended the season.

What of other workers?  Plenty of other occupations have been suspended entirely or have had hours reduced.  In many cases, the market cap of the employer is in the billions of dollars.  These people are not going to be able to make ends meet easily.

Will this finally be the time when we realize that capitalism has gone too far and that the common good requires a more equitable distribution of resources? 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Eleven

[SABRES 0311]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Is there a silver lining--a corona, if you will--to the Wuhan virus?

We're all aware of arena workers who now will be compensated somehow for their loss of income, and of course there was an anticipatory and factually unsupported backlash at the Pegulas for failing to announce a plan the second the NHL suspended the season.

What of other workers?  Plenty of other occupations have been suspended entirely or have had hours reduced.  In many cases, the market cap of the employer is in the billions of dollars.  These people are not going to be able to make ends meet easily.

Will this finally be the time when we realize that capitalism has gone too far and that the common good requires a more equitable distribution of resources? 

Is it capitalism or those executing? Power and greed lead people to abuse a system. If that’s true then it’s not the system that has to change it’s the people participating that have to change. 

Im hearing rumblings about the U.S. and China wanting patents on COVID treatment. Really? Maybe worry about that after we’ve figured out a way to take care of the problem before arguing who will profit. 

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Is it capitalism or those executing? Power and greed lead people to abuse a system. If that’s true then it’s not the system that has to change it’s the people participating that have to change. 

It's kind of one and the same.  The system has been abused to the point where it no longer is what was intended, so it needs to be regulated.

Agreed on your point about the patents.

[triumph_communes]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Will this finally be the time when we realize that capitalism has gone too far and that the common good requires a more equitable distribution of resources? 

No. Cause we don’t have unfettered capitalism currently. Might shift the window a little bit, but the means of production aren’t changing hands. 

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

the means of production aren’t changing hands. 

That doesn't need to happen.

No one needs to be as rich as Jeff Bezos, on the other hand.

[triumph_communes]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That doesn't need to happen.

No one needs to be as rich as Jeff Bezos, on the other hand.

Stuff that will actually make changes to things like that such as increasing capital gains taxes to be higher than income taxes like they were originally intended to be is something people on both sides of the aisle have floated every election for decades, but then drop it and distract people over rainbows and umbilical cords instead until the populace tunes out. 
 

I’m solidly in the position that nothing meaningful like that will change until the voting systems itself changes. Don’t look to one of the two parties to fix anything- they’d all lose if they made real change. 

[LTS]

16 hours ago, Eleven said:

That doesn't need to happen.

No one needs to be as rich as Jeff Bezos, on the other hand.

No one needs to be as rich as Jeff Bezos, but should Jeff Bezos be punished for having built what so many have flocked to?  Just as it is your choice to build or not build an empire. Just as it is your choice what to do with your money.  Should it also not be his choice?

The only people responsible for Jeff Bezos wealth are the billions who have bought into his product and thus allowed it to rise.  Along the way I am sure he used influence and possibly even illegal dealings to make that happen, but the bottom line is that people love Amazon and so Jeff Bezos gets rich.

The people are the problem, but its easier to point the finger at one person.

16 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Stuff that will actually make changes to things like that such as increasing capital gains taxes to be higher than income taxes like they were originally intended to be is something people on both sides of the aisle have floated every election for decades, but then drop it and distract people over rainbows and umbilical cords instead until the populace tunes out. 
 

I’m solidly in the position that nothing meaningful like that will change until the voting systems itself changes. Don’t look to one of the two parties to fix anything- they’d all lose if they made real change. 

The people are the voters. They outnumber the executives. The truth that people don't want to believe is that they are, by and large, sheep.  They don't want to be bothered to make change because that is hard work. It requires them to stop watching The Bachelor and start paying attention.  It requires them to get involved.  We are a society of people who don't want to actually be involved. Sure they'll complain, but as long as things are good enough then so be it.  Whether they are burned out from trying, convinced it won't make a difference, or any other reason the end result is the same.

The Republicans, in their masses, have put forth Donald Trump.

The Democrats, in their masses, will put forth Biden or Sanders.

The United States, in its mass, will vote for one of those.  They've already voted in the Senators and Representatives who are part of the system.  The people don't really want change, they just talk about it and complain about it.  It's like posting on Facebook.  The people are the problem, the politicians are the result.

[triumph_communes]

26 minutes ago, LTS said:

No one needs to be as rich as Jeff Bezos, but should Jeff Bezos be punished for having built what so many have flocked to?  Just as it is your choice to build or not build an empire. Just as it is your choice what to do with your money.  Should it also not be his choice?

The only people responsible for Jeff Bezos wealth are the billions who have bought into his product and thus allowed it to rise.  Along the way I am sure he used influence and possibly even illegal dealings to make that happen, but the bottom line is that people love Amazon and so Jeff Bezos gets rich.

The people are the problem, but its easier to point the finger at one person.

The people are the voters. They outnumber the executives. The truth that people don't want to believe is that they are, by and large, sheep.  They don't want to be bothered to make change because that is hard work. It requires them to stop watching The Bachelor and start paying attention.  It requires them to get involved.  We are a society of people who don't want to actually be involved. Sure they'll complain, but as long as things are good enough then so be it.  Whether they are burned out from trying, convinced it won't make a difference, or any other reason the end result is the same.

The Republicans, in their masses, have put forth Donald Trump.

The Democrats, in their masses, will put forth Biden or Sanders.

The United States, in its mass, will vote for one of those.  They've already voted in the Senators and Representatives who are part of the system.  The people don't really want change, they just talk about it and complain about it.  It's like posting on Facebook.  The people are the problem, the politicians are the result.

The Republicans didn’t put forth Trump. Trump stole the entire party out of nowhere while it was in shambles.  The Republican voters pushed for the Tea Party and the media co-opted their efforts and turned that movement into a farce giving all the idiots the microphones. But it left the party in shambles as the voters lost their faith. The entire power structure of the Republican Party has since turned over.  There’s some swamp holdouts, but they at least had major change.

 

The Democrats have chosen Biden. They’ve undermined Sanders every step of the way because he’s an external threat. All the ‘socialist/progressive minded people’ put their energy into him, but we’re about to see for the second time him selling out completely to keep the party intact.  Do you blame the people for following his suit?  Or do you blame Sanders for being such a cuck that he lets his happen for a second time?

 

Youre right, until the populace loses its distractions (like during a boring Pandemic...), nothing will fundamentally change. That’s their game. I see a (new) politician on one side that changed the game, and one on the other who in the end just gives in to the people he decries against. 

[drnkirishone]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

No one needs to be as rich as Jeff Bezos, but should Jeff Bezos be punished for having built what so many have flocked to?  Just as it is your choice to build or not build an empire. Just as it is your choice what to do with your money.  Should it also not be his choice?

The only people responsible for Jeff Bezos wealth are the billions who have bought into his product and thus allowed it to rise.  Along the way I am sure he used influence and possibly even illegal dealings to make that happen, but the bottom line is that people love Amazon and so Jeff Bezos gets rich.

The people are the problem, but its easier to point the finger at one person.

So much to disagree with.

Strange choice to use punished. But I guess past ultra rich got "punished" by having to accept labor unions, labor laws, and even some required to break apart the monopolies they had formed.

Jeff Bezos doesn't have money. I have money. I get paid, I pay a bill or two, I buy groceries, maybe I splurge and buy an expensive bottle of irish whiskey ($60-$80!!!), after that I wait for my next paycheck.

Jeff Bezos has wealth, he reaps his profits and decides what industry to take over and conquer next. He throws money at lawmakers and govt representatives for favorable laws and contracts.

To say it is the people that are the problem is much like the old saying of "let the buyer beware". Sure it has a grain of truth and wisdom in it but at it's heart it is victim blaming. Because the people only have the power if they are mostly unified in a goal or objective and the wealthy know it. So the game plan is the same as it always has been, divide and conquer.

Having said all of the above I should point out I have typed all of it on a smartphone running the android operating system, a google product. But what option did I have? Guess I could have bought an iphone.... illusion of choice is a real bitch

Edited March 18, 2020 by drnkirishone
I wanted another damned comma

[Hank]

Serious question, because I just don't understand it, why do people seem to have a problem with Bazos being wealthy?

[LTS]

5 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

The Republicans didn’t put forth Trump. Trump stole the entire party out of nowhere while it was in shambles.  The Republican voters pushed for the Tea Party and the media co-opted their efforts and turned that movement into a farce giving all the idiots the microphones. But it left the party in shambles as the voters lost their faith. The entire power structure of the Republican Party has since turned over.  There’s some swamp holdouts, but they at least had major change.

 

The Democrats have chosen Biden. They’ve undermined Sanders every step of the way because he’s an external threat. All the ‘socialist/progressive minded people’ put their energy into him, but we’re about to see for the second time him selling out completely to keep the party intact.  Do you blame the people for following his suit?  Or do you blame Sanders for being such a cuck that he lets his happen for a second time?

 

Youre right, until the populace loses its distractions (like during a boring Pandemic...), nothing will fundamentally change. That’s their game. I see a (new) politician on one side that changed the game, and one on the other who in the end just gives in to the people he decries against. 

The bottom line... who votes for these candidates?  People.

4 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

So much to disagree with.

Strange choice to use punished. But I guess past ultra rich got "punished" by having to accept labor unions, labor laws, and even some required to break apart the monopolies they had formed.

Jeff Bezos doesn't have money. I have money. I get paid, I pay a bill or two, I buy groceries, maybe I splurge and buy an expensive bottle of irish whiskey ($60-$80!!!), after that I wait for my next paycheck.

Jeff Bezos has wealth, he reaps his profits and decides what industry to take over and conquer next. He throws money at lawmakers and govt representatives for favorable laws and contracts.

To say it is the people that are the problem is much like the old saying of "let the buyer beware". Sure it has a grain of truth and wisdom in it but at it's heart it is victim blaming. Because the people only have the power if they are mostly unified in a goal or objective and the wealthy know it. So the game plan is the same as it always has been, divide and conquer.

Having said all of the above I should point out I have typed all of it on a smartphone running the android operating system, a google product. But what option did I have? Guess I could have bought an iphone.... illusion of choice is a real bitch

What word do you use if you were to take something away from someone who has earned the right to have it?  I call that punishment.

I don't follow your differentiation of wealth and money.  But it's clear you have a disdain for those who create large, powerful, companies.

Who is the victim? The person who chooses to buy from Amazon?  

You are correct, people only have power if they are mostly unified in a goal.  This is how business works.  Create a product, sell it to enough people who want to buy it, profit. What other model were you looking for?  

As for your illusion of choice... why do you need a smartphone? There are plenty of people who live their lives each day without them.  You are blaming the people who make the product you choose to buy for making the product.  Did you also yell at your mother when she made you dinner?

[Weave]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Serious question, because I just don't understand it, why do people seem to have a problem with Bazos being wealthy?

I don't know anyone who has a problem with Bezos being wealthy.  What people do have a problem with is Bezos overseeing a company that has schemed to use non-employees in ways that are almost predatory and exploitive in nature, operated a company that has avoided income taxes, and use predatory and exploitive tactics with their suppliers.

It's not the wealth.  It's all the people you are stepping on to acquire it. 

By contrast, I've never perceived hate for Elon Musk. His companies don't have the exploitive reputation that Amazon has.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Weave

[Hank]

19 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don't know anyone who has a problem with Bezos being wealthy.  What people do have a problem with is Bezos overseeing a company that has schemed to use non-employees in ways that are almost predatory and exploitive in nature, operated a company that has avoided income taxes, and use predatory and exploitive tactics with their suppliers.

It's not the wealth.  It's all the people you are stepping on to acquire it. 

By contrast, I've never perceived hate for Elon Musk. His companies don't have the exploitive reputation that Amazon has.

Thank you. 

[SABRES 0311]

People are starting to spin the Chinese Virus verbiage. China is trying to blame the U.S. military for COVID-19. Trump calling it the Chinese Virus combats their narrative. 

[SwampD]

This is just funny.

[drnkirishone]

On 3/18/2020 at 4:58 PM, LTS said:

The bottom line... who votes for these candidates?  People.

What word do you use if you were to take something away from someone who has earned the right to have it?  I call that punishment.

I don't follow your differentiation of wealth and money.  But it's clear you have a disdain for those who create large, powerful, companies.

Who is the victim? The person who chooses to buy from Amazon?  

You are correct, people only have power if they are mostly unified in a goal.  This is how business works.  Create a product, sell it to enough people who want to buy it, profit. What other model were you looking for?  

As for your illusion of choice... why do you need a smartphone? There are plenty of people who live their lives each day without them.  You are blaming the people who make the product you choose to buy for making the product.  Did you also yell at your mother when she made you dinner?

Well let's start with the last statement. I need a smartphone because my employer has told me I need one.

Earned the right? It is funny hearing that in connection to a discussion on the extremely wealthy, I do have a disdain for titans of industry thou. Because historically they have not been good people. They step on thous below them to raise themselves higher and savagely lash out and destroy any that oppose them

[SwampD]

I thought the press getting on the president for calling it the Wuhan virus was really silly.

But him (them) now calling it the Chinese virus I can only see as being a dick move.

Edited March 20, 2020 by SwampD

[triumph_communes]

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I thought the press getting on the president for calling it the Wuhan virus was really silly.

But him (them) now calling it the Chinese virus I can only see as being a dick move.

China killing off all the early whistleblowers of the disease and lying about all their numbers, then blaming the US for the whole thing--- not a dick move.