Microchips Being Inserted In Pucks Soon

[bob_sauve28]

This was from the article on diversity training in the news, whole article is interesting, but the chip thing is cool 

 

 

The wide-ranging, 30-minute press conference included a number of topics, including player and puck tracking. Each of the 16 playoff teams this season will have their arenas outfitted with the necessary technology in time for postseason play to begin. Additionally, Bettman announced Thursday that each of the 31 arenas will be fully operational in 2020-21.

The NHL initially planned to roll out the technology last season, however, the league was forced to replace its technology partner in September. Microchips will be placed on player jerseys and inside game pucks with real-time data gathered by antennas inside each rink.

The information will be displayed on television broadcasts, though the user will be able to decide whether he or she can choose their viewing experience.

"It will be as a fan or viewer what you want it to be," Bettman said. "You’ll be able to watch the game as you always watched it traditionally if you want. There will be broadcast enhancements on the primary screen or secondary screen. There will be more data than ever before.

https://buffalonews.com/2020/01/24/buffalo-sabres-national-hockey-league-gary-bettman-kim-pegula-nhl-news-2020/

[inkman]

One thing I know for sure, the NHL will bugger this up real good.  

[Weave]

Another step towards The Man knowing everything about us.  First the pucks.  Then the players.  Then the fans.  Pretty soon they'll track fan reactions and change the pace of the game to maximize the fan reaction they want.

Doomsday cometh.

[Zamboni]

[Curt]

One thing Sabres related about this that has disappointed me thus far is their inaction in building up their “analytics” department.  This is one avenue where Pegula could use his extra bucks to the organization’s benefit.

I was hoping (still hope) that Krueger coming on board could spur this on, with him being exposed to similar stuff in the football world.  It would be nice if Buffalo could be a team that is quick to make use of this new information that will be available to them, instead of a team that realizes 5 yrs from now that they are very behind the curve.

[SabresFanInRochester]

17 hours ago, Curt said:

One thing Sabres related about this that has disappointed me thus far is their inaction in building up their “analytics” department.  This is one avenue where Pegula could use his extra bucks to the organization’s benefit.

I was hoping (still hope) that Krueger coming on board could spur this on, with him being exposed to similar stuff in the football world.  It would be nice if Buffalo could be a team that is quick to make use of this new information that will be available to them, instead of a team that realizes 5 yrs from now that they are very behind the curve.

I thought it was interesting when they asked the NHL All Stars if they looked at analytics and most said they don't. I find it interesting that across the league, players are not clamoring for this data, and they are not having it forced upon them by their coaching staff. Yet, as fans, Corsi and these related charts mean so much.

About a month ago, WGR550 was talking about how -- I think it was the Baltimore Ravens -- had just hired a Psychologist on their staff for helping them making better decisions. (I cannot remember their exact title, but it was someone to guide decisions when emotions come into play; at least that's how I took it.) Schopp has openly been against momentum, yet he did not scoff at the idea of such a hiring. They didn't hire a mathematician to analyze data and look for patterns. Strange.

Yet as fans, we want Ristolainen traded because he has a horrible... whatever stupid stat you want to call it.

I'm not a fan -- assemble a good team, with a coach who can get the most out of them and not be outcoached. Then it's up to the players to provide the wins. I'll keep track of Ws, Goals, and Assists. The other stuff is noise.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, SabresFanInRochester said:

I thought it was interesting when they asked the NHL All Stars if they looked at analytics and most said they don't. I find it interesting that across the league, players are not clamoring for this data, and they are not having it forced upon them by their coaching staff. Yet, as fans, Corsi and these related charts mean so much.

About a month ago, WGR550 was talking about how -- I think it was the Baltimore Ravens -- had just hired a Psychologist on their staff for helping them making better decisions. (I cannot remember their exact title, but it was someone to guide decisions when emotions come into play; at least that's how I took it.) Schopp has openly been against momentum, yet he did not scoff at the idea of such a hiring. They didn't hire a mathematician to analyze data and look for patterns. Strange.

Yet as fans, we want Ristolainen traded because he has a horrible... whatever stupid stat you want to call it.

I'm not a fan -- assemble a good team, with a coach who can get the most out of them and not be outcoached. Then it's up to the players to provide the wins. I'll keep track of Ws, Goals, and Assists. The other stuff is noise.

Sure they didn't. 

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/late-for-work-11-25-how-john-harbaugh-and-the-ravens-gained-an-analytical-edge

"The Ravens made a concerted effort to bolster their analytics department this offseason, hiring three analysts. General Manager Eric DeCosta has a close relationship with Baltimore Orioles Assistant General Manager Sig Mejdal and understands the importance that analytics play.

"Analytics is a way that I see of organizing information," DeCosta said. "We have all these different pieces of information – bullet points and different things. How do we organize that information effectively? And, how do we use that information to help us make decisions?"

[LGR4GM]

Analytics is a tool to help you 1. Assemble a good team and 2. Not get out coached. 

Seeing how the Sabres do things it's very obvious they don't understand how to use data effectively. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by LGR4GM

[bob_sauve28]

I just want to know how fast a player is skating, how fast a shot or pass was, etc. That will be interesting to know. When a goalie gives up a goal, I’d like to know how fast the shot was. If they can show quickness (0-60 mph) that would be cool. Just stuff like that. 

[steveoath]

As long as it's not leading up to a rebirth of that glowing puck.

Second point: if the puck goes over the glass do you still get to keep it? 

[Curt]

31 minutes ago, SabresFanInRochester said:

I thought it was interesting when they asked the NHL All Stars if they looked at analytics and most said they don't. I find it interesting that across the league, players are not clamoring for this data, and they are not having it forced upon them by their coaching staff. Yet, as fans, Corsi and these related charts mean so much.

About a month ago, WGR550 was talking about how -- I think it was the Baltimore Ravens -- had just hired a Psychologist on their staff for helping them making better decisions. (I cannot remember their exact title, but it was someone to guide decisions when emotions come into play; at least that's how I took it.) Schopp has openly been against momentum, yet he did not scoff at the idea of such a hiring. They didn't hire a mathematician to analyze data and look for patterns. Strange.

Yet as fans, we want Ristolainen traded because he has a horrible... whatever stupid stat you want to call it.

I'm not a fan -- assemble a good team, with a coach who can get the most out of them and not be outcoached. Then it's up to the players to provide the wins. I'll keep track of Ws, Goals, and Assists. The other stuff is noise.

I would not expect players to look at them much.  I would expect coaches and management to look at them and use them to evaluate players and come up with game plans.  I expect players to do what the coaches tell them.

[dudacek]

47 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Seeing how the Sabres do things it's very obvious they don't understand how to use data effectively. 

What are the decisions the Sabres are making this year that demonstrate this?

[bob_sauve28]

51 minutes ago, steveoath said:

 

Second point: if the puck goes over the glass do you still get to keep it? 

No, it will be like soccer where you have to give it back. They will use the microchip to find it and arrest the person not surrendering the puck. 

[Taro T]

49 minutes ago, steveoath said:

As long as it's not leading up to a rebirth of that glowing puck.

Second point: if the puck goes over the glass do you still get to keep it? 

1.  The puck won't "glow." It'll have a silverish/gray tail and will have a gray shadow on the ice directly below the puck.  Not as annoying as the blue/red puck that would be seen through the boards; and not as annoying as the supremely annoying player "tags" blocking large portions of the screen, nor even as annoying as the player identification circles used to highlight which player has the puck.  But still annoying, none the less.

And the chips themselves in the pucks will be barely more valuable than the RFID tags that are placed in DVD cases.  The handful of pucks that miss the netting aren't going to have security tracking them down; though having chips in them, you'd expect they could be tracked down.  ?

[LGR4GM]

17 hours ago, dudacek said:

What are the decisions the Sabres are making this year that demonstrate this?

Mitts being up to start the season, Sobotka on line 2, not getting Skinner a center or putting him with Eichel, not moving Reinhart to the line with Skinner, starting Hutton as much as they did while things started to go south, not seeing the issues with the pp, defensive pairs, using Bogosian at all, and how they draft. 

That's just off the top of my head but all of these things were decisions that data said was bad. Mitts was clearly not ready and eye test data or analytics showed that. Sobotka was a black hole on that 2nd line and we might have gotten lucky that he was injured. Skinner isn't going to produce on his own and needs a set up guy. Speaking of setup guys one of the best on the team is Reinhart who honestly doesn't need Eichel to produce according to the data but could help Skinner produce. Hutton was bad for longer than he should have been before they pulled the plug there but this can be given a pass. The PP should be run below the goal line, anyone in 2020 who things you should try to get some point shots tipped is out of their minds. There are mountains of evidence that certainly players work better in pairs than others but the merry go round goes on. Bogo has god awful metrics and yet we still get to watch him suck each night. I have explained my view on the draft in multiple places. 

[shrader]

17 hours ago, Taro T said:

And the chips themselves in the pucks will be barely more valuable than the RFID tags that are placed in DVD cases.  The handful of pucks that miss the netting aren't going to have security tracking them down; though having chips in them, you'd expect they could be tracked down.  ?

See, there's the problem.  They will now be tracking any fan who is lucky enough to get a game puck.  Once they take it home, that chip will interact with their cell phones, their smart tvs, and their amazon alexas.  Soon enough, the NHL will have all of their bank accounts and will turn their lights on and off all day while the people are off at work.

Seriously though, I wonder how the home viewers would have the option of what they do and don't see during the broadcast.  That sounds like something that would work only with an NHL-designed streaming service.  Surely I wouldn't have any of those options watching the random NBCSN broadcast.  The quote did mention "primary screen", so I'm not sure how all of that could apply to a "one size fits all" product like that.

[dudacek]

54 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Mitts being up to start the season, Sobotka on line 2, not getting Skinner a center or putting him with Eichel, not moving Reinhart to the line with Skinner, starting Hutton as much as they did while things started to go south, not seeing the issues with the pp, defensive pairs, using Bogosian at all, and how they draft. 

That's just off the top of my head but all of these things were decisions that data said was bad. Mitts was clearly not ready and eye test data or analytics showed that. Sobotka was a black hole on that 2nd line and we might have gotten lucky that he was injured. Skinner isn't going to produce on his own and needs a set up guy. Speaking of setup guys one of the best on the team is Reinhart who honestly doesn't need Eichel to produce according to the data but could help Skinner produce. Hutton was bad for longer than he should have been before they pulled the plug there but this can be given a pass. The PP should be run below the goal line, anyone in 2020 who things you should try to get some point shots tipped is out of their minds. There are mountains of evidence that certainly players work better in pairs than others but the merry go round goes on. Bogo has god awful metrics and yet we still get to watch him suck each night. I have explained my view on the draft in multiple places. 

Hmm... not disagreeing with most of those observations, just aren't sure why they are an indictment of the Sabres use of analytics, rather than an illustration of Krueger's lack of options due to lack of talent.

Did the analytics counter Mittelstadt and Hutton's good counting stats in the first month? One could argue that they stuck with each too long after their play fell off, but that's true for the eye test as well. Same thing with the PP.

Isn't not getting Skinner a centre more about the GM's inability acquire one than faulty use of analytics? And isn't Skinner's history one of being able to produce without a centre?

I thought the analytics for Johnasson and Skinner were good with Sobotka until Johannson and Sobotka got hurt, and that Reinhart/Eichel/Olofsson had good analytics, no?

I'm not trying to argue with you, I was looking for actual numbers that show things that might not have been obvious to the eye test, but jumped out through analytics like last year's "Pilut/Risto worked very well together yet Phil keeps trottting out Risto/Scandella which is terrible."

I perfectly understand you not wanting to wade through the numbers again for some guy on the internet unwilling or unable to do that on his own.

Edited January 27, 2020 by dudacek

[matter2003]

Hopefully this can give us proper goal or no goal calls when situations arise like earlier in the year when the Sabres appeared to have scored a goal since the goalie's entire glove was in the net with the puck in it but they ruled no goal because they couldn't "see" the puck, even though there is no possible way it could not have been in the net.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Hmm... not disagreeing with most of those observations, just aren't sure why they are an indictment of the Sabres use of analytics, rather than an illustration of Krueger's lack of options due to lack of talent.

Did the analytics counter Mittelstadt and Hutton's good counting stats in the first month? One could argue that they stuck with each too long after their play fell off, but that's true for the eye test as well. Same thing with the PP.

Isn't not getting Skinner a centre more about the GM's inability acquire one than faulty use of analytics? And isn't Skinner's history one of being able to produce without a centre?

I thought the analytics for Johnasson and Skinner were good with Sobotka until Johannson and Sobotka got hurt, and that Reinhart/Eichel/Olofsson had good analytics, no?

I'm not trying to argue with you, I was looking for actual numbers that show things that might not have been obvious to the eye test, but jumped out through analytics like last year's "Pilut/Risto worked very well together yet Phil keeps trottting out Risto/Scandella which is terrible."

I perfectly understand you not wanting to wade through the numbers again for some guy on the internet unwilling or unable to do that on his own.

I don't want to wade through the numbers. Specifically though Sobotka was bad, very bad offensively with Skinner and Johannson. He was the offensive blackhole on that line. 

It isn't about faulty analytics it is about not using them.

[MattPie]

21 hours ago, Taro T said:

And the chips themselves in the pucks will be barely more valuable than the RFID tags that are placed in DVD cases.  The handful of pucks that miss the netting aren't going to have security tracking them down; though having chips in them, you'd expect they could be tracked down.  ?

Thanks for ruining my dream that we'd actually be able to trade $CURRENT_WHIPPING_PLAYER for an actual bag of pucks.

Thoughts above on players and data: I'm not too surprised that the star players aren't asking for the data; they're already doing something that works, so the have no motivation to look at it. It's more likely some bubble guy would be interested as an advantage to stay in the league. But really, that's not necessarily the players' job. It's up to the coaching staff to look at and synthesize the data into Xs and Os to improve individual player performance or the scheme. That being said, I suspect before long you'll have players that do analyze the data and use it, and it may be an epiphany much like Brind'amour and his workout ethic changed the game in the 90s.

[Radar]

23 hours ago, steveoath said:

As long as it's not leading up to a rebirth of that glowing puck.

Second point: if the puck goes over the glass do you still get to keep it? 

That glowing luck was so stupid and I watchable.

[Zamboni]

4 hours ago, Radar said:

That glowing luck was so stupid and I watchable.

Um .... what?

[FogBat]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:02 PM, steveoath said:

As long as it's not leading up to a rebirth of that glowing puck.

Second point: if the puck goes over the glass do you still get to keep it? 

I hated that glowing puck. It was such a distraction from the rest of the game.

[FogBat]

On 1/25/2020 at 8:24 PM, Weave said:

Another step towards The Man knowing everything about us.  First the pucks.  Then the players.  Then the fans.  Pretty soon they'll track fan reactions and change the pace of the game to maximize the fan reaction they want.

Doomsday cometh.

I'm not sure if you said that tongue in cheek, or if you were serious. Either way, it does concern me not that they're going to do this, but that the outside fringe conspiracy theorists will run with this and blow things way out of proportion with their fear mongering apocalyptic mindset. Besides, it's lousy eschatology (if anyone knows all of its intricacies). It's going to be like literally everything else: it can be used either for good or evil.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[erickompositör72]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Mitts being up to start the season, Sobotka on line 2, not getting Skinner a center or putting him with Eichel, not moving Reinhart to the line with Skinner, starting Hutton as much as they did while things started to go south, not seeing the issues with the pp, defensive pairs, using Bogosian at all, and how they draft. 

That's just off the top of my head but all of these things were decisions that data said was bad. Mitts was clearly not ready and eye test data or analytics showed that. Sobotka was a black hole on that 2nd line and we might have gotten lucky that he was injured. Skinner isn't going to produce on his own and needs a set up guy. Speaking of setup guys one of the best on the team is Reinhart who honestly doesn't need Eichel to produce according to the data but could help Skinner produce. Hutton was bad for longer than he should have been before they pulled the plug there but this can be given a pass. The PP should be run below the goal line, anyone in 2020 who things you should try to get some point shots tipped is out of their minds. There are mountains of evidence that certainly players work better in pairs than others but the merry go round goes on. Bogo has god awful metrics and yet we still get to watch him suck each night. I have explained my view on the draft in multiple places. 

So much of this is really more a result of specific coaching decisions/philosophy. Analytics cannot be thought of as some sort of tool to optimize a team in a vacuum. There are way too many variables. We rely on coaches because they see nuances in players and utilize them with their visions.

In order for analytics to really become a helpful tool, we know we need large sample sizes, and specifics points of comparison. It seems like many analytic-happy posters here would prefer this whole season would just be another experiment for comparing different scenarios they fancy, when the reality is, Krueger is trusting his instincts/experience to do what he thinks will help us win.

Analytics are useless in small sample sizes, so they won't be relevant to this team until they've played much longer under Krueger, with poignant comparisons of specific situations/usages.