Trade: Calgary Michael Frolik to Buffalo for a 4th

[DarthEbriate]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Not to mention actually USING Hunwick for some reason ?

I think the Hunwick inclusion + no trade is really just taking care of people. Pitt & JBott knew Hunwick was really badly hurt. They wanted him to get a payout for helping win a Cup, and JBott said "I'll do it." He'll be off the books this year, never play again and they wanted him to be able to put some cash aside. It was a reward for a good kid who doesn't have an on-ice future anymore. I'm OK with it.

[dudacek]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

I think the Hunwick inclusion + no trade is really just taking care of people. Pitt & JBott knew Hunwick was really badly hurt. They wanted him to get a payout for helping win a Cup, and JBott said "I'll do it." He'll be off the books this year, never play again and they wanted him to be able to put some cash aside. It was a reward for a good kid who doesn't have an on-ice future anymore. I'm OK with it.

The Buffalo Sabres didn't owe matt Hunwick a thing.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

I think the Hunwick inclusion + no trade is really just taking care of people. Pitt & JBott knew Hunwick was really badly hurt. They wanted him to get a payout for helping win a Cup, and JBott said "I'll do it." He'll be off the books this year, never play again and they wanted him to be able to put some cash aside. It was a reward for a good kid who doesn't have an on-ice future anymore. I'm OK with it.

Why are we rewarding Pittsburgh's player and getting stuck with cap that prevented us from being able to retain on Scandella?

[LGR4GM]

So we got to make sure the rando guy from Pittsburgh is happy while fans would rather burn their tickets then attend a game? Wow fantstic so glad Matt Hunwick earned that reward as opposed to the loyal fans who have not seen the playoffs in 9 years and counting... 

[DarthEbriate]

Just now, dudacek said:

The Buffalo Sabres didn't owe matt Hunwick a thing.

Nope, they didn't. But JBot and Rutherford want to keep their relationship going and maybe that favor returns in some future point. If JBot still has a job.

It also is fine in a vacuum. But not when he's also taking back Berglund and Sobotka and as salary dumps who don't play the style game he wants his roster to play, etc.

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Why are we rewarding Pittsburgh's player and getting stuck with cap that prevented us from being able to retain on Scandella?

Exactly.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Nope, they didn't. But JBot and Rutherford want to keep their relationship going and maybe that favor returns in some future point. If JBot still has a job.

It also is fine in a vacuum. But not when he's also taking back Berglund and Sobotka and as salary dumps who don't play the style game he wants his roster to play, etc.

He won't and if this "favor" was going to get repaid, we would have Galchenyuk for a draft pick instead of the nothingburger from Pittsburgh we have received. 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

play the style game he wants his roster to play, etc.

Ooh you just reminded me of the other thing I was going to post today

[Radar]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

He won't and if this "favor" was going to get repaid, we would have Galchenyuk for a draft pick instead of the nothingburger from Pittsburgh we have received. 

You're saying Jbott will be out? Before next season of at end of his contract?

[Brawndo]

Actually the favor will be repaid when Botterill is an AGM in Pittsburgh again 

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He won't and if this "favor" was going to get repaid, we would have Galchenyuk for a draft pick instead of the nothingburger from Pittsburgh we have received. 

That would have been a good one to call up on and remind Pitt "and we took Hunwick off your books and didn't trade him". Which goes back to other GMs don't respect JBot. Which goes to JBot not being much longer for our GM.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Actually the favor will be repaid when Botterill is an AGM in Pittsburgh again 

This would be the most black-pilling experience of my life

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

You're saying Jbott will be out? Before next season of at end of his contract?

No, I don't think they will fire him sadly. I also don't think this Pittsburgh favor will ever be repaid. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's part of cap management though. Being able to identify value contracts is like THE thing he was brought here to do. And he has done NOTHING of the sort.

I still like the Skinner trade - a known quantity that was gonna cost money. 

The other pros he has brought in: Jokiharju, Vesey, Johansson, Miller, Montour, Sheary, Scandella, Sobotka, Berglund, Thompson, Lazar, Frolik, Wilson, Beaulieu, Pominville, Elie, Tennyson, Pouliot, Antipin, Nolan, Josefson, Griffith. 

These are all guys who played pro hockey for at least a year that were brought in by trade or UFA under Jason. I don't think I missed anyone. Leaving aside quality of player - almost all of these guys were fully established as the player they will always be upon arrival. Jokiharju was a good move, but as a prospect swap it barely qualifies for the type of move you're talking about. Nowhere did the cap guru identify a player that would blossom in a new role after being hidden in his current one, thus becoming a value contract. That's how those things get made. That's why my focus was always Cirelli - he is just a placeholder name for the type of guy we're going to need, since already-good 2Cs don't get passed around like colds. 

You gotta be able to find guys that can fit and flourish on your team. He found guys that played the same way they always have, or were already on the decline, and we play like the collection of those players that we are.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I still like the Skinner trade - a known quantity that was gonna cost money. 

The other pros he has brought in: Jokiharju, Vesey, Johansson, Miller, Montour, Sheary, Scandella, Sobotka, Berglund, Thompson, Lazar, Frolik, Wilson, Beaulieu, Pominville, Elie, Tennyson, Pouliot, Antipin, Nolan, Josefson, Griffith. 

These are all guys who played pro hockey for at least a year that were brought in by trade or UFA under Jason. I don't think I missed anyone. Leaving aside quality of player - almost all of these guys were fully established as the player they will always be upon arrival. Jokiharju was a good move, but as a prospect swap it barely qualifies for the type of move you're talking about. Nowhere did the cap guru identify a player that would blossom in a new role after being hidden in his current one, thus becoming a value contract. That's how those things get made. That's why my focus was always Cirelli - he is just a placeholder name for the type of guy we're going to need, since already-good 2Cs don't get passed around like colds. 

You gotta be able to find guys that can fit and flourish on your team. He found guys that played the same way they always have, or were already on the decline, and we play like the collection of those players that we are.

EXACTLY! We are on the same page right now and it is scary good. 

[darksabre]

20 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I still like the Skinner trade - a known quantity that was gonna cost money. 

The other pros he has brought in: Jokiharju, Vesey, Johansson, Miller, Montour, Sheary, Scandella, Sobotka, Berglund, Thompson, Lazar, Frolik, Wilson, Beaulieu, Pominville, Elie, Tennyson, Pouliot, Antipin, Nolan, Josefson, Griffith. 

These are all guys who played pro hockey for at least a year that were brought in by trade or UFA under Jason. I don't think I missed anyone. Leaving aside quality of player - almost all of these guys were fully established as the player they will always be upon arrival. Jokiharju was a good move, but as a prospect swap it barely qualifies for the type of move you're talking about. Nowhere did the cap guru identify a player that would blossom in a new role after being hidden in his current one, thus becoming a value contract. That's how those things get made. That's why my focus was always Cirelli - he is just a placeholder name for the type of guy we're going to need, since already-good 2Cs don't get passed around like colds. 

You gotta be able to find guys that can fit and flourish on your team. He found guys that played the same way they always have, or were already on the decline, and we play like the collection of those players that we are.

This is essentially it. While he's made a couple moves I've been happy with, for the most part he has done things that made the team the same or worse than it was when he got here. Too many unforced errors for my taste.

This team would probably be in better shape right now if he had simply done nothing.

[spndnchz]

Wow! The ‘I think’ narrative in full force.?

[Sabre fan]

19 minutes ago, darksabre said:

This is essentially it. While he's made a couple moves I've been happy with, for the most part he has done things that made the team the same or worse than it was when he got here. Too many unforced errors for my taste.

This team would probably be in better shape right now if he had simply done nothing.

Yes this team with OReilly and Kane and Lehner would actually be better...and there is no saying we could not have added Skinner as well so that he would be playing with OReilly and Kane which would be a really good line.

[DarthEbriate]

50 minutes ago, spndnchz said:

Wow! The ‘I think’ narrative in full force.?

And rightfully so. After all, this is a hockey message board on a Wednesday before the trade deadline with a team that is a decade since a playoff berth... this is exactly the place for wild speculation and hearsay, random thoughts, and what-ifs. If not, well, there's not much to tell.

[Kruppstahl]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

And rightfully so. After all, this is a hockey message board on a Wednesday before the trade deadline with a team that is a decade since a playoff berth... this is exactly the place for wild speculation and hearsay, random thoughts, and what-ifs. If not, well, there's not much to tell.

I always enjoy the folks who, while discussing something like a hockey team for God's sake, think they are discussing mathematics, physics, or anything that has some underlying universal Truth attached to it.

Jesus Christ.

 

 

[DarthEbriate]

39 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Yes this team with OReilly and Kane and Lehner would actually be better...and there is no saying we could not have added Skinner as well so that he would be playing with OReilly and Kane which would be a really good line.

Cap-wise I don't think we can do Kane and Skinner without moving Okposo, but all other things equal, yes. (And some key "yeah, buts" of if ROR isn't played 24 minutes a game, and if Eichel/Reino continue to improve as they have, and Olofsson appears as he has, and Lehner gets pay-cut prove it and still cleans himself up off the ice, which may not have been possible in Buffalo.) But yes ---

Add ROR's game to the 2nd line (Kane/Skinner-ROR-MoJo). Add Lehner's career .918 (and recent .92+ except for his one poor year with us behind a caved-in roster) to our net and make Ullmark the backup, and yes... that looks like a playoff contender in the East on paper. At least good enough to give it a go. Maybe not Tampa level, but solid.

[DarthEbriate]

52 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

I always enjoy the folks who, while discussing something like a hockey team for God's sake, think they are discussing mathematics, physics, or anything that has some underlying universal Truth attached to it.

Jesus Christ.

But what we tell each other (and ourselves) is true... from a certain point of view. We just need to remember that our goal is the same (hopefully), namely that the Sabres win a championship, and if not (as only one team wins per season), are at least entertaining and bring joy. And we should always do so with respect for ourselves and others.

^ says the person who quotes Star Wars on a hockey message board... which doesn't even make sense.

[spndnchz]

10 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

But what we tell each other (and ourselves) is true... from a certain point of view. We just need to remember that our goal is the same (hopefully), namely that the Sabres win a championship, and if not (as only one team wins per season), are at least entertaining and bring joy. And we should always do so with respect for ourselves and others.

^ says the person who quotes Star Wars on a hockey message board... which doesn't even make sense.

May the farce be with you.