Dead Team Walking - Are the Sabres Even Fixable?

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

IMO he's waiting for the deadline to try and maximize return.... also probably hasn't decided yet if they're going to be buyers or sellers.   At this point they *should* be sellers, but we don't know what JBOT's view is.    They have some winnable games coming up, if they shockingly go on a tear, they're right there.   Look what St. Louis did last season after Jan 1.   Unlikely they repeat something similar missing their top two wingers and a tier 1 goalie, but they go on an 8-1-1 stretch and suddenly they're within striking distance.   

FTFY

[El Zahir]

53 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

It just seems very little to ask of our players to add 3-4pts each and become a better team, especially from our lower ranks.

In baseball, the different between being a .250 hitter and a .300 hitter is just 1 hit per week. It just seems very little to ask of our .250 hitters to hit .300 each and become a better team.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, El Zahir said:

In baseball, the different between being a .250 hitter and a .300 hitter is just 1 hit per week. It just seems very little to ask of our .250 hitters to hit .300 each and become a better team.

Actually, Going from 135 to 165 hits would be more like asking a hockey player to add 10-20 points, not 3-4.  Big difference.

[PalmTreeMafia]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He may be waiting because there isn't anyone available to acquire.

Jbot has added to this team

Good: Skinner, VO, Dahlin, Montour and Jokiharju.  I'd probably put Pilut here as well

The Average: Lazar, MoJo, and Miller

The Disappointing: Hutton, Sobotka, Vesey, Mitts, Thompson and Sheary however the jury is still out on Thompson and Mitts long-term

The to soon to tell or meaningless depth: Frolik and Wilson.

Bogo, KO, Erod, Girgensons, Risto, Jack, Sam, Larsson and Ullmark were all here when he got here.

Biggest failings so far is not replacing ROR with a quality 2C immediately and not getting something better then Hutton in goal.

I don't have an issue with the acquisitions of Sheary or Vesey.  They are proven NHL wings, but Jbot never game them the support they needed to succeed.  Really it all comes down to that.

 

 

VO was a Murray selection in 2014. I refuse to give JNot credit for Dahlin. Montour and Pilut should be downgraded to average. Miller and MoJo should be downgraded to disappointing. So after 2.5 seasons, the only things JNot has done definitively well (in my opinion) are the Skinner and Jokiharju trades. Awesome.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I've created a Galchenyuk thread to discuss the merits of getting this young vet.  Other names who need a fresh start, but bring talent are Lias Andersson and Jesse Puljujarvi.  Puljujarvi really intrigues me like Galchenyuk.  

He is doing well back in Finland with 14g, 32 pts in 35 SM-Liiga games and he is only 21.  Another talented buy low candidate.  For an organization starving for goal scoring, he might be an real interesting flyer.  

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, Marchand'sNose said:

 

VO was a Murray selection in 2014. I refuse to give JNot credit for Dahlin. Montour and Pilut should be downgraded to average. Miller and MoJo should be downgraded to disappointing. So after 2.5 seasons, the only things JNot has done definitively well (in my opinion) are the Skinner and Jokiharju trades. Awesome.

Montour has been average hasn’t he.  Appropriate downgrade.  I think we need to debate that RFA contract over Reinharts.  I’m not sure he is a must keep with Joki playing so well.  And Miller is confusing. When is the last time a GM trades for a player over the summer and he gets healthy scratched so frequently?  I get he was Downgraded on the depth chart by Joki, but.....Questionable trade at this point. 

[triumph_communes]

Sabres are bad since Skinner and Oloffson got hurt.  What do y’all expect?

[PalmTreeMafia]

23 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Sabres are bad since Skinner and Oloffson got hurt.  What do y’all expect?

But the team was playing poorly even when both were healthy. From October 26 - December 28 (2 full months), the Sabres went 8-13-6. So the problem with this roster likely runs much deeper than "2 of top 6 forwards injured, shallow depth."

Even if you make VO and Skinner healthy and then magically have Mittelstadt, Cozens, and Luukkonen reach 100% career potential and promoted to the NHL, would that solve all of the team's problems? I don't even know anymore. Maybe the team's issues have as much to do with psychology as they do talent? At this point, I'm leaning heavily toward "yes" and am therefore recommending a lot of the long-timers here be shipped out ASAP despite whatever positive on-ice contributions they may still make. Keep Eichel and possibly Reinhart, but trade away players like Risto, McCabe, Bogo, Rodrigues, Girgensons, Larsson, and Okposo.

[nucci]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Sabres are bad since Skinner and Oloffson got hurt.  What do y’all expect?

they weren't great with them either.....y'all

[CallawaySabres]

Whoa, this team was beyond awful before the injuries. They miss Victor but Skinner wasn't doing anything

[freester]

8 hours ago, Marchand'sNose said:

 

VO was a Murray selection in 2014. I refuse to give JNot credit for Dahlin. Montour and Pilut should be downgraded to average. Miller and MoJo should be downgraded to disappointing. So after 2.5 seasons, the only things JNot has done definitively well (in my opinion) are the Skinner and Jokiharju trades. Awesome.

Montour is mediocre and a waste of a first round pick. He is another mistake of Botterils. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, freester said:

Montour is mediocre and a waste of a first round pick. He is another mistake of Botterils. 

I couldn’t disagree more. Since he’s been here he has consistently been one of our better D.  

[pi2000]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I couldn’t disagree more. Since he’s been here he has consistently been one of our better D.  

I agree.  It doesn't show on the stat sheet, but he's a very active player who consistently joins the rush.   He's perfect for their system.   Jake McCabe... Not so much.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I agree.  It doesn't show on the stat sheet, but he's a very active player who consistently joins the rush.   He's perfect for their system.   Jake McCabe... Not so much.

I like Jake, but if we are going to play this system then McCabe is probably our most trade-able asset given his reasonable salary and decent play.  
 

[North Buffalo]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I like Jake, but if we are going to play this system then McCabe is probably our most trade-able asset given his reasonable salary and decent play.  
 

Hate to say it Jake looks like a mangy mutt out there that could use a bath and a good new home.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is a cap neutral stab at making us better now.

1.  Sheary to Pitt for Galchenyuk -  both are UFA’s but Galchenyuk is more talented and could benefit from RK’s positive message.  Pitt gets guy who know their system and fits into their locker room.

2. Bogo for Wayne Simmonds.  A cap wash and we could use Simmonds toughness in a limited role.  NJ has cap space and could use a D.

3. KO, Larsson and McCabe to Nash for Bonino and Turris.  This upgrades our center depth, goal scoring and improves our Fo%.  It is a cap wash for both teams.  They have huge center depth and want to unload Turris. We need centers and want to dump KO.  They actually need help on D and they are a budget team. Having a lockup up McCabe and a value player like Larsson would help them.

4. Trade Erod to whomever for a bag of pucks and a yogurt gift card.

5. I’m also waiving Hutton and calling up Johansson or keeping Hutton as a backup and rotating Hammond and Johansson for spot starts in Buffalo and hiring a shrink for Hutton.

Our roster then once everyone is healthy

1. VO Jack Reinhart

2. Skinner MoJo Galchenyuk

3. Frolik Bonino Vesey

4. Girgensons Asplund Simmonds

Lazar

Dahlin Montour

Jokiharju Ristolainen

Pilut Miller

Nelson/Borgen as call ups when needed.

Ullmark/Johansson.
 

Cap change.  These deals cost us 500K less this year, but 1.25 next year because of the difference in the last years of Bonino’s and McCabe’s contracts.  We are also on the hook for 6 mill to Turris 4 years from today, because taking on the cost of Turris’ 4th year was the price for getting Bonino.

Edited January 14, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[nfreeman]

^^^^ I like it, but I don't think Pitt, NJ or Nashville would agree to the proposed deals.  I think Pitt will want more for Galchie, NJ would rather trade Simmonds for picks/prospects, and Nashville will require more than Larsson and McCabe for Bonino (Turris and KO are pretty close to a wash).

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 hours ago, nfreeman said:

^^^^ I like it, but I don't think Pitt, NJ or Nashville would agree to the proposed deals.  I think Pitt will want more for Galchie, NJ would rather trade Simmonds for picks/prospects, and Nashville will require more than Larsson and McCabe for Bonino (Turris and KO are pretty close to a wash).

I think there is a reasonable chance all the deals could get done.  They might need some tweaking, but I think these are all good starting points.   As to Turris both are bad contract 30+ players except Turris is a center.  He also has a 4 year on his deal to KO's 3 and by taking the 4 year, we'd get something in return like a discount on Bonino or Granlund etc..

That said, I doubt Jason Darcy Regier 2 Botterial will do any of them.  He is a cautious trader and likes the time over the summer to analyze a deal to death.  I wish he'd at least try to get out of his comfort zone and truly support this team in season before it's to late (aka the trade deadline).

[GASabresIUFAN]

Given our long layoff for the all-star break, isn’t this the best time for Jbot to make a move? Get the new player(s) in with some time to practice with the team before playing a game?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Given our long layoff for the all-star break, isn’t this the best time for Jbot to make a move? Get the new player(s) in with some time to practice with the team before playing a game?

I don't think they practice this week.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I don't think they practice this week.

They'll get time off but not the entire 9 days with no games between the Preds and the Otters games.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

They'll get time off but not the entire 9 days with no games between the Preds and the Otters games.

They mentioned it being a bye week on the Sabres site and so far no practice updates. Gave me the impression that they were off the whole week. Maybe a Monday practice and Tuesday.

Edited January 22, 2020 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[PerreaultForever]

I could be wrong but my understanding is the bye weeks were merged with the allstar game so some teams get the days before and some the days after but they are off for a full week.

[Andrew Amerk]

On 1/14/2020 at 2:29 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is a cap neutral stab at making us better now.

1.  Sheary to Pitt for Galchenyuk -  both are UFA’s but Galchenyuk is more talented and could benefit from RK’s positive message.  Pitt gets guy who know their system and fits into their locker room.

2. Bogo for Wayne Simmonds.  A cap wash and we could use Simmonds toughness in a limited role.  NJ has cap space and could use a D.

3. KO, Larsson and McCabe to Nash for Bonino and Turris.  This upgrades our center depth, goal scoring and improves our Fo%.  It is a cap wash for both teams.  They have huge center depth and want to unload Turris. We need centers and want to dump KO.  They actually need help on D and they are a budget team. Having a lockup up McCabe and a value player like Larsson would help them.

4. Trade Erod to whomever for a bag of pucks and a yogurt gift card.

5. I’m also waiving Hutton and calling up Johansson or keeping Hutton as a backup and rotating Hammond and Johansson for spot starts in Buffalo and hiring a shrink for Hutton.

Our roster then once everyone is healthy

1. VO Jack Reinhart

2. Skinner MoJo Galchenyuk

3. Frolik Bonino Vesey

4. Girgensons Asplund Simmonds

Lazar

Dahlin Montour

Jokiharju Ristolainen

Pilut Miller

Nelson/Borgen as call ups when needed.

Ullmark/Johansson.
 

Cap change.  These deals cost us 500K less this year, but 1.25 next year because of the difference in the last years of Bonino’s and McCabe’s contracts.  We are also on the hook for 6 mill to Turris 4 years from today, because taking on the cost of Turris’ 4th year was the price for getting Bonino.

Where does Turris slot in on your new roster?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Where Asplund is. My bad.