GDT Dec 17 2019 Sabres @ Leafs. 7pm ET. NBCSN

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Sabres are on a fence between good and bad... Cozens next year will help but they need another top line forward and either another 3rd line forward who has some scoring touch or can actually forecheck unlike Sheary

Cozens might help next year, not will help.

We need certainty at 2C (and possibly 2RW as well) for the 2nd half of this season and next season at a minimum.  And then fit guys like Cozens in as they show ability.

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

They just don’t have enough good scorers and their goaltending is average.  It’s really that simple.  Constructing a roster heavy on puck-moving defensemen is a questionable strategy - those defensemen have no scorers to bring the puck to, and the style makes them susceptible to the stretch passes where  they lack an elite goalie to bail them out.  

Dahlin once again looks like an elite player.  Reino is battling, I think, he’s just having a tough time fitting his game into the offense.  Skinner is being asked to create offense all by himself which has never been his game.  E-Rod, Mojo and Sheary are playing like they belong in Rochester with the Mythlestadt. 

Multiple coaches have now been unable to succeed with these core players.

Botterill has failed at his job.  Time to move on.  It happens.

Skinners game has always been about creating by himself.  He’s practically never had a good center feeding him.  He’s the smaller, more finesse version of Evander Kane. But like most players, he gets a boost when the talent around him matches his talent.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Weave said:

Cozens might help next year, not will help.

We need certainty at 2C (and possibly 2RW as well) for the 2nd half of this season and next season at a minimum.  And then fit guys like Cozens in as they show ability.

Yes. All of this.

[Doohicksie]

21 minutes ago, Weave said:

Skinners game has always been about creating by himself.

The problem is that he simply can't do it by himself.  At this point I feel like Olofsson has developed into enough of an all around player that you could swap him out with Skinner and he could help lift that line, while Jack could work with Skinner.  Jack's the only center we have at the moment that can complement Skinner's creativity.

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

The problem is that he simply can't do it by himself.  At this point I feel like Olofsson has developed into enough of an all around player that you could swap him out with Skinner and he could help lift that line, while Jack could work with Skinner.  Jack's the only center we have at the moment that can complement Skinner's creativity.

Except he has done it by himself his entire career.

[Doohicksie]

...but he scored 40 goals with Jack.

I'm not saying move him to Jack's line forever, just get him kickstarted.

[Ross Rhea]

Just watched the game and the lack talent by the Sabres compared to the Leafs was very appearrent 

[Doohicksie]

A few thoughts on the game:

1. This was a rivalry game.  Rivalries are rivalries in part because on any given night you don't know who's going to win the game.  Am I upset the Sabres lost?  Of course.  Is it the end of the world?  No.
2. Ralph is still learning about the competition.  He knows what wants to do, I think, but he couldn't quite get over the hump in Toronto's barn.
3. Just because Toronto won this game does not mean they are great and we suck, it just means they won this game.  I remember the 1997 Western Conference Finals:  Game 4 was won by Detroit 6-0.  Game 5 was won by Colorado 6-0.  Shake the dust off and move on.

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, Ross Rhea said:

Just watched the game and the lack talent by the Sabres compared to the Leafs was very appearrent 

Horsehockey.  They have their holes just like we do.  In the first few minutes things looked pretty even.  Then the Leaves started to get some bounces and the Sabres started to play much more tentative.  If we played them again tonight we could beat 'em.

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Horsehockey.  They have their holes just like we do.  In the first few minutes things looked pretty even.  Then the Leaves started to get some bounces and the Sabres started to play much more tentative.  If we played them again tonight we could beat 'em.

We might beat them, but they’d still have more talent.

[Ross Rhea]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Horsehockey.  They have their holes just like we do.  In the first few minutes things looked pretty even.  Then the Leaves started to get some bounces and the Sabres started to play much more tentative.  If we played them again tonight we could beat 'em.

Horsehockey my butt, save Eichel and maybe Dahlin the Leafs have more talent across the board, doesn't mean they play better as a team though.

 

Without Ullmark being spectacular last night they might have scored 8 goals, and I didn't think the Sabres played all that bad but the leafs controlled the puck most of the night and were by far the more dangerous team.

[Southtown Tommy]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Everytime we trade a good top 6 forward (see Kane and ROR) we have to replace him, something Boterill has not been able to do yet.  

He has to do something to change the make-up / type of player. It won't be easy to do.

[Doohicksie]

3 minutes ago, Ross Rhea said:

Without Ullmark being spectacular last night they might have scored 8 goals, and I didn't think the Sabres played all that bad but the leafs controlled the puck most of the night and were by far the more dangerous team.

Because we let them.

The first several shifts were pretty even.  Then a bad bounce here and there and the Leafs had some chances.  The Sabres backed off.  If they don't back off, they don't allow 3 goals through two periods.

[dudacek]

Wasn't it just the previous game when we successfully pulled the goalie late on the PP and scored to send the game to OT? Didn't visit that game day thread. Was everyone complaining about how stupid Ralph was?

Why does Ralph need to fix Jeff Skinner? Why doesn't Jeff have to fix Jeff? Why doesn't Sabrespace's pet get called out for his poor production, body language and failure to hustle on the backcheck?

Leaf fans have to be frustrated that a team with that much puck skill continues to be vulnerable due to its unmitigated arrogance.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

I did defend skinner yesterday but he for sure needs to step it up. He has been invisible for almost a month. 

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

We might beat them, but they’d still have more talent.

Talent isn't the only way to win, and you need more than talent to win, but having it sure helps to win. 

The reason so many people have commented on the discrepancy between these two teams in this particular game is that, for two periods, the Leafs barraged us with stuff we quite simply haven't seen our Sabres capable of since 2007. Some of those chances were jaw-dropping in their complexity and ability.

[nfreeman]

The Leafs clearly have more talent at forward (and I sure hope no one is going to point to last night’s game as an example of Eichel outplaying Matthews) and in net. But the Sabres can beat the Leafs when the Sabres bring their A game.

Unfortunately, that’s not what the Sabres brought last night.  Not even close, and highly disappointing.  

[Zamboni]

Skinner is a streaky scorer, hockey fans who follow the league (not just Sabres) knew this when he played for Carolina. It was also known when he signed his big contract with the Sabres. It’s pronounced more lately because he doesn’t have a high quality pivot on his line. You get a better 2nd line center, and he’ll warm back up again.

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Wasn't it just the previous game when we successfully pulled the goalie late on the PP and scored to send the game to OT? Didn't visit that game day thread. Was everyone complaining about how stupid Ralph was?

Why does Ralph need to fix Jeff Skinner? Why doesn't Jeff have to fix Jeff? Why doesn't Sabrespace's pet get called out for his poor production, body language and failure to hustle on the backcheck?

Leaf fans have to frustrated that a team with that much puck skill continues to be vulnerable due to its unmitigated arrogance.

 

This.   Remember what Ralph said....'The past is not the present. It's the past. We will work with the present, and what you're doing today and what you're giving the team today will decide where your role is, what your minutes are, and how much you are playing a part in our process'. 

I agree wholeheartedly.   Jeff earned his extension.  Now he needs to keep earning his paycheck.   He makes $9M/AAV.   He needs be better.  

[bunomatic]

12 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

This.   Remember what Ralph said....'The past is not the present. It's the past. We will work with the present, and what you're doing today and what you're giving the team today will decide where your role is, what your minutes are, and how much you are playing a part in our process'. 

I agree wholeheartedly.   Jeff earned his extension.  Now he needs to keep earning his paycheck.   He makes $9M/AAV.   He needs be better.  

Also this-the coach and GM should put him in a position to succeed. He hasn’t been. He can clearly score but has played with bums all year. On a team lacking skilled forwards some of the blame can be levelled at coach/GM.

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Also this-the coach and GM should put him in a position to succeed. He hasn’t been. He can clearly score but has played with bums all year. On a team lacking skilled forwards some of the blame can be levelled at coach/GM.

He’s been on the first PP for the entire year, save the past few games. He’s scoreless on it for the entire year.

He’s mostly played with Johansson - not a bum - at even strength, often in sheltered  minutes against third-pairing defencemen. Until recently he was averaging over 17 minutes a game.

Sure, we need more good forwards, but he’s being paid to generate offence on his own. His history is that he can.

He has been shut out in 21 of his past 25 games. That’s on him.

Edited December 18, 2019 by dudacek

[triumph_communes]

The stretch passes got the best of them, but they won’t every night. Average goaltending and our offense not finishing on their o zone possession time killed them. 
 

Toronto is the first team they’ve faced who really would stall passes on the rush until the 4th player joined in, and the defenseman would get caught standing and our forwards caught deep in the zone were too far back to back check. 
 

They can be coached to prevent that in the future. In fact, it’s something they can learn from themselves.

 

Toronto doesn’t win like that in a 5 game series.  Not too worried. They were well coached to expose our two biggest flaws though. And damn they are fast. Wish our depth players had that kind of speed.

[Randall Flagg]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He’s been on the first PP for the entire year, save the past few games. He’s scoreless on it for the entire year.

He’s mostly played with Johansson - not a bum - at even strength, often in sheltered  minutes against third-pairing defencemen. Until recently he was averaging over 17 minutes a game.

Sure, we need more good forwards, but he’s being paid to generate offence on his own. His history is that he can.

He has been shut out in 21 of his past 25 games. That’s on him.

He is a really bad power play player. His goal scoring at ES almost always involves goaltender motion, screens, rebounds, and stuff really close to the net. But he doesn't deflect shots well, so he dosen't get put super close to the net on the PP, and it's rare that the goalie doesn't see his shot coming on the PP, and he's really bad at keeping the play alive under pressure with well-timed and well-placed passes. The only way the goalie moves significantly on the power play is those cross-crease passes, but the nature of those requires one-timers given that Jack is a left board staple, and he has not scored a one-timer goal with us in his larger than 50 goal sample size. I would just as soon not have him on the 1st PP unit. 

At ES...he went 24 games with only 1 goal last season IIRC. This streak could go on longer as is. He's also virtually guaranteed to go on at least one more goal scoring tear at some point this season. 

Is this worth 9 mil? Nah, but it's not Jeff's fault his GM put the team in a position such that Jeff leaving was DEFCON 1

Edited December 18, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[nfreeman]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He’s been on the first PP for the entire year, save the past few games. He’s scoreless on it for the entire year.

He’s mostly played with Johansson - not a bum - at even strength, often in sheltered  minutes against third-pairing defencemen. Until recently he was averaging over 17 minutes a game.

Sure, we need more good forwards, but he’s being paid to generate offence on his own. His history is that he can.

He has been shut out in 21 of his past 25 games. That’s on him.

I mostly agree, although I think Johansson has been greatly diminished since his injury.  I think there is something wrong with MoJo's shoulder or ribs or something that is impairing his puck control.  In any case he hasn't been nearly as good at setting up Skinner as he was pre-injury.  But Skinner needs to be better in any case.

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, Ross Rhea said:

Just watched the game and the lack talent by the Sabres compared to the Leafs was very appearrent 

The Leafs are, for sure, a more talented squad than the Sabres. Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Marner ... sheesh.