Casey Mittlestadt has been sent to Amerks

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, inkman said:

Not sure his source but Kevin Oklobzija just said Casey Mittlestadt had a clause in his contract stipulating he could not be sent down to the minors for his first full pro season.  

He's doing an interview on 95.1 in Rochester. 

Is this sort of clause common for Top-10 picks?

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

They are not allowed to put that kind of clause in the ELC contracts.  It had to be one of those handshake agreements and they honored it.  The only way he was ever going to be sent down was if he agreed to it.  I've been saying this for a long time now.  It's the only possible explanation for him being kept around so long.

This saddens me. If he's not ready and his teammates know it, how does that help anyone --- especially Mittlestadt? (Apart from prestige and pocketbook.) But think long-term! We want him to appear out of nowhere ready-to-go like the Pittsburgh guys (Guentzel, Rust) or any of the Red Wings of the previous 2 decades (not the most recent few years).

[darksabre]

16 minutes ago, shrader said:

They are not allowed to put that kind of clause in the ELC contracts.  It had to be one of those handshake agreements and they honored it.  The only way he was ever going to be sent down was if he agreed to it.  I've been saying this for a long time now.  It's the only possible explanation for him being kept around so long.

I wonder if the situation was essentially "if you send me down I won't report and you'll have to terminate my contract". It would seem weird for such a young player to want to make that kind of deal, but...

[shrader]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I wonder if the situation was essentially "if you send me down I won't report and you'll have to terminate my contract". It would seem weird for such a young player to want to make that kind of deal, but...

I doubt there was anything even remotely sinister like that during the whole process.  At most, they asked at some point and he said no, end of story.

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

I doubt there was anything even remotely sinister like that during the whole process.  At most, they asked at some point and he said no, end of story.

Yeah, but that doesn't make any sense. He has no leverage. They could send him down without asking him. So anything that would prevent them from simply doing so would, in fact, be sinister.

[shrader]

5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Yeah, but that doesn't make any sense. He has no leverage. They could send him down without asking him. So anything that would prevent them from simply doing so would, in fact, be sinister.

Making that type of agreement and then bailing on it will not reflect well in future negotiations.  You could potentially be souring future talks with every single client of that agent.  That reputation of not honoring your agreements can ripple downstream significantly.  So really, if they wanted to badly get him to the AHL in this scenario where the player disagrees, it would take a lot of careful conversations.

[LGR4GM]

45 minutes ago, shrader said:

They are not allowed to put that kind of clause in the ELC contracts.  It had to be one of those handshake agreements and they honored it.  The only way he was ever going to be sent down was if he agreed to it.  I've been saying this for a long time now.  It's the only possible explanation for him being kept around so long.

That honestly makes it worse. He clearly was having major issues all of last year and they did nothing. 

I wonder if Krueger was the one who forced Botterill to send down Casey?

Edited June 17, 2020 by LGR4GM

[darksabre]

13 minutes ago, shrader said:

Making that type of agreement and then bailing on it will not reflect well in future negotiations.  You could potentially be souring future talks with every single client of that agent.  That reputation of not honoring your agreements can ripple downstream significantly.  So really, if they wanted to badly get him to the AHL in this scenario where the player disagrees, it would take a lot of careful conversations.

What GM makes this handshake agreement though without stipulating some kind of performance expectations from the player? There's no reason to even make this deal from the perspective of the GM. Was getting Mittelstadt in the lineup for six games that important at the end of 2018? 

The whole thing is a head scratcher.

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

There's no reason to even make this deal from the perspective of the GM. Was getting Mittelstadt in the lineup for six games that important at the end of 2018?

No --- but that should have been the carrot/handshake. Sign now, and we'll get you into the NHL with an NHL paycheck for the close out of this season. It shouldn't have been anything in perpetuity.

Next year, you've got to go to training camp and earn your spot, but we foresee some AHL time while you build your repertoire for the pro game and acclimate to the physicality and grind.

[dudacek]

Casey: “I don’t know if I should sign. I’ve got unfinished business with the Gophers and I’m not sure I’m ready.”

Jason: “You’re ready.”

Casey: “Don’t get me wrong,  want to be in the NHL, but if I’m not good enough I’d rather be learning in Minnesota than with the Amerks.”

Jason: “You’re too good for the Amerks. I think there’s a good chance you are running the second line in Buffalo next year. I promise you, there’s no Rochester in your future.”

[shrader]

26 minutes ago, darksabre said:

What GM makes this handshake agreement though without stipulating some kind of performance expectations from the player? There's no reason to even make this deal from the perspective of the GM. Was getting Mittelstadt in the lineup for six games that important at the end of 2018? 

The whole thing is a head scratcher.

Teams don't have to burn the first year of the contract for these guys who sign at the end of the year, but so many times it happens.  A lot of things are done to get these kids to sign.  It's not exclusively a Botterill or MIttelstadt thing.  This scenario where a guy needed to go to the AHL but they couldn't due to that handshake, I'm willing to bet it has played out several times around the league.

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Casey: “I don’t know if I should sign. I’ve got unfinished business with the Gophers and I’m not sure I’m ready.”

Jason: “You’re ready.”

Casey: “Don’t get me wrong,  want to be in the NHL, but if I’m not good enough I’d rather be learning in Minnesota than with the Amerks.”

Jason: “You’re too good for the Amerks. I think there’s a good chance you are running the second line in Buffalo next year. I promise you, there’s no Rochester in your future.”

Ready are you! What know you of ready? For eight hundred years one year have I managed Sabres (at that time). My own counsel will I keep on who is to be in Sabres sweaters.

[darksabre]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Casey: “I don’t know if I should sign. I’ve got unfinished business with the Gophers and I’m not sure I’m ready.”

Jason: “You’re ready.”

Casey: “Don’t get me wrong,  want to be in the NHL, but if I’m not good enough I’d rather be learning in Minnesota than with the Amerks.”

Jason: “You’re too good for the Amerks. I think there’s a good chance you are running the second line in Buffalo next year. I promise you, there’s no Rochester in your future.”

This is the only way it makes sense. That Casey didn't want to leave college and Botterill basically dangled the carrot to entice him. It leans entirely on Botterill being a damned idiot.

[Sabre fan]

JBotto clearly rushed Casey to try to distract from the fact that his team was awful yet again...either way the most important thing now is that he (Casey) beef-up and become that strong 2-way center this team so badly needs...one must wonder if he has the talent or not??  Far too many college players have faded into the sunset without hardly a  peep...hopefully Casey will blossom as this team needs him badly to do so. any good team is built down the middle (hell even exGMTM knew that; sadly JBotto didn;t) and this team is very weak at that position giving away ROR...that is where they should begin to rebuild first and foremost

Edited June 17, 2020 by Sabre fan

[Weave]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

This is the only way it makes sense. That Casey didn't want to leave college and Botterill basically dangled the carrot to entice him. It leans entirely on Botterill being a damned idiot.

Given the frequency that college kids go the full 4 yrs and choose free agency, this may have been JBotts play to prevent losing the kid in a couple years.  I think that is the most likely scenario.

[darksabre]

26 minutes ago, Weave said:

Given the frequency that college kids go the full 4 yrs and choose free agency, this may have been JBotts play to prevent losing the kid in a couple years.  I think that is the most likely scenario.

Casey was only a 1 year college player though. Was it really that urgent? He couldn't have let him play another year of college first? This wasn't a Vesey situation at the time, Mittlestadt couldn't exactly flee the prospect pool.

If Botterill freaked out that a player he just drafted might not sign with the team three years down the line, that makes him a coward and an idiot.

[darksabre]

To put it another way, if a prospect playing in the college system, who isn't Jack Eichel, is allowed to impose their will on an NHL GM, then that NHL GM is weak.

[Cascade Youth]

58 minutes ago, darksabre said:

To put it another way, if a prospect playing in the college system, who isn't Jack Eichel, is allowed to impose their will on an NHL GM, then that NHL GM is weak.

A prospect who can't even do a pull-up!  <Ducks>

[Drag0nDan]

On 2/26/2020 at 11:28 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Casey won’t fully blossom until he realizes he doesn’t have to do it alone.

Felt that way about pominville when he first came up - and he had torn up the AHL for like 2 and a half years.  He was constantly skating with the puck and getting swallowed up.  Learning to play better without the puck, when to pass, and then learning that with NHL speed.  Takes time, and JB missed the mark on his development.  

Ennis was kinda like that too, except he legit never figured out how to play offense without the puck on his stick.  

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That honestly makes it worse. He clearly was having major issues all of last year and they did nothing. 

I wonder if Krueger was the one who forced Botterill to send down Casey?

By the time he got sent down i was wondering if it was casey asking

[Weave]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Casey was only a 1 year college player though. Was it really that urgent? He couldn't have let him play another year of college first? This wasn't a Vesey situation at the time, Mittlestadt couldn't exactly flee the prospect pool.

If Botterill freaked out that a player he just drafted might not sign with the team three years down the line, that makes him a coward and an idiot.

Maybe Casey indicated that was the direction he wanted to go.

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

To put it another way, if a prospect playing in the college system, who isn't Jack Eichel, is allowed to impose their will on an NHL GM, then that NHL GM is weak.

Or held over a barrel.  Poor trade decisions can do that.

[shrader]

4 hours ago, Weave said:

Given the frequency that college kids go the full 4 yrs and choose free agency, this may have been JBotts play to prevent losing the kid in a couple years.  I think that is the most likely scenario.

College kids that go the full 4 years and then walk, that’s a very short list. I’m not so sure we can even count on one hand the number of first round picks that have gone that route. The 5tb round guy that does that? It’s not Casey Mittelstadt. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Maybe Casey indicated that was the direction he wanted to go.

Or held over a barrel.  Poor trade decisions can do that.

No there were reports he wasn't happy about being sent down and took a couple weeks to process that. 

[Randall Flagg]

2 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

A prospect who can't even do a pull-up!  <Ducks>

And didn't crack a point per game

[tom webster]

Two hills I will die on.

1) Casey is not an example of bad drafting but an example of how some years it’s just luck of the draw . Robert Thomas is the only first rounder that has put up considerably better numbers then Casey.

2) Whether he ultimately fails ir not will have nothing to do with spending a year in Buffalo too early. He’s either going to figure it out or not but.......

[darksabre]

22 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Two hills I will die on.

1) Casey is not an example of bad drafting but an example of how some years it’s just luck of the draw . Robert Thomas is the only first rounder that has put up considerably better numbers then Casey.

2) Whether he ultimately fails ir not will have nothing to do with spending a year in Buffalo too early. He’s either going to figure it out or not but.......

Casey's development isn't the concern. It's that he spent a year in Buffalo and wasted our time.

[tom webster]

11 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Casey's development isn't the concern. It's that he spent a year in Buffalo and wasted our time.

Well that I agree with. What I don’t is the notion that somehow that year is why he will never become the player he was projected to be.