Who is the better hockey player, Matthews or Eichel?

[Thorner]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Darcy had that choice and missed. Sam is a fine player, but Jack with Leon would be an even better combo then Jack and Sam.

Not disagreeing with the conclusion. I don’t agree Darcy “missed” though. 

For one, consensus was Sam was the guy, and two, Darcy wasn’t the GM making the pick. 

[nfreeman]

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Better goal scorer sure (now more maybe), but not a better passer, skater, 2 way player, or playmaker.  Being a one trick pony makes him a star, but not a better player.  He is a younger and better Skinner.  He'll never be in the Kucherov, Kane, MacKinnon, Crosby, McDavid, Draisiatl or even Barkov debate as an elite all around player. 

Until this season, Matthews was the better player.  Last year, Matthews had 37 goals and 73 pts in 67 games and was the best player on a playoff team, while Eichel had 28 goals and 82 pts in 77 games, and captained his team to yet another terrible and underachieving season.

At least 26 NHL GMs would've taken Matthews over Eichel.

They are both outstanding skaters.  Eichel is a better playmaker and passer, but Matthews has until this year, and probably still is, a better goalscorer, which is the most important skill there is.  Eichel is also a better 2-way player, but that wasn't the case until this year, and there is no reason Matthews can't catch up there.

Including Barkov and Draisaitl in your list above is nuts IMHO.

 

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What, the world juniors? I guess, ya. Matthews had 14 points in 12 games, Eichel had 9 in 10. So, a roughly 11 points in 12 games equivalent. 

It’s 3 points and a tiny sample size. Mittelstadt has a better WJC ppg than Matthews. 

Please don’t mention the Team North America gimmick. 

Draisaitl 

That is indeed what I was thinking of.  An objective coaching staff trying to win games (with a bunch of big-name NHL coaches -- Todd McLellan, Jon Cooper, Peter DeBoer and Dave Tippett) preferred Matthews to Eichel.

Does it really matter?  No, but it's another data point as to which guy was considered better in prior years.

[Thorner]

Just now, nfreeman said:

Until this season, Matthews was the better player.  Last year, Matthews had 37 goals and 73 pts in 67 games and was the best player on a playoff team, while Eichel had 28 goals and 82 pts in 77 games, and captained his team to yet another terrible and underachieving season.

At least 26 NHL GMs would've taken Matthews over Eichel.

They are both outstanding skaters.  Eichel is a better playmaker and passer, but Matthews has until this year, and probably still is, a better goalscorer, which is the most important skill there is.  Eichel is also a better 2-way player, but that wasn't the case until this year, and there is no reason Matthews can't catch up there.

Including Barkov and Draisaitl in your list above is nuts IMHO.

 

That is indeed what I was thinking of.  An objective coaching staff trying to win games (with a bunch of big-name NHL coaches -- Todd McLellan

 

, Jon Cooper

 

, Peter DeBoer

 

and Dave Tippett) preferred Matthews to Eichel.

Does it really matter?  No, but it's another data point as to which guy was considered better in prior years.

No, they preferred Matthews on McDavid’s wing, due to complementing skill sets. During the game between the Leafs and Oilers recently, they talked about that exactly, how it was Tippett’s inspiration for playing Draisaitl with McDavid in Edmonton, on a line. 

And no, Draisaitl also isn’t as good as Eichel. 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Until this season, Matthews was the better player.  Last year, Matthews had 37 goals and 73 pts in 67 games and was the best player on a playoff team, while Eichel had 28 goals and 82 pts in 77 games, and captained his team to yet another terrible and underachieving season.

At least 26 NHL GMs would've taken Matthews over Eichel.

They are both outstanding skaters.  Eichel is a better playmaker and passer, but Matthews has until this year, and probably still is, a better goalscorer, which is the most important skill there is.  Eichel is also a better 2-way player, but that wasn't the case until this year, and there is no reason Matthews can't catch up there.

Including Barkov and Draisaitl in your list above is nuts IMHO.

 

That is indeed what I was thinking of.  An objective coaching staff trying to win games (with a bunch of big-name NHL coaches -- Todd McLellan, Jon Cooper, Peter DeBoer and Dave Tippett) preferred Matthews to Eichel.

Does it really matter?  No, but it's another data point as to which guy was considered better in prior years.

I agree that, while Eichel is better currently, Matthews probably should have been considered better, say, last season. 

But can we leave out the bolded? It’s not Jack’s fault the team was bad. Using that as an argument to support AM being better is disingenuous. Did McDavid “captain his team” to a poor finish? Also, Matthews wasn’t the best player on the Leafs last year. Tavares was better, and last season, maybe even Marner. Not to mention how important Andersen was for them. 

How would Jack have fared with that added supportive talent? 

As for the 26 GMs thing, that was probably true, too. But I’d wager, not anymore. Eichel has moved beyond Matthews. That could change, but that’s where it’s at right now. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Thorny

[Weave]

I suspect that these two are close enough that we might be having this conversation every season.  And who's better might go back and forth each season.

[pi2000]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Darcy had that choice and missed. Sam is a fine player, but Jack with Leon would be an even better combo then Jack and Sam.

Samson will be fine.
Pastrnak would have been nice.
Draisaitl goes first.

Edited December 18, 2019 by pi2000

[Thorner]

18 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Samson will be fine.
Pastrnak would have been nice.
Draisaitl goes first.

Would rather have Pasta. 

[Cascade Youth]

I’m changing my answer.

[inkman]

@LGR4GM Just log off the internet and take up whiddling 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I suspect that these two are close enough that we might be having this conversation every season.  And who's better might go back and forth each season.

Too bad Jack doesn’t have Taveras to take some heat off.  We need a 2C. Really quite badly. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Pimlach

[nfreeman]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

No, they preferred Matthews on McDavid’s wing, due to complementing skill sets. During the game between the Leafs and Oilers recently, they talked about that exactly, how it was Tippett’s inspiration for playing Draisaitl with McDavid in Edmonton, on a line. 

It wasn’t just which guy got to play on McD’s line.  Matthews has a much bigger role, and played much better, than Eichel in that tournament.  

[SwampD]

They’re both really good. I liked watching them both tonight.

I wish Eichel had the team behind him that Matthews has.

[Curt]

13 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Until this season, Matthews was the better player.  Last year, Matthews had 37 goals and 73 pts in 67 games and was the best player on a playoff team, while Eichel had 28 goals and 82 pts in 77 games, and captained his team to yet another terrible and underachieving season.

At least 26 NHL GMs would've taken Matthews over Eichel.

They are both outstanding skaters.  Eichel is a better playmaker and passer, but Matthews has until this year, and probably still is, a better goalscorer, which is the most important skill there is.  Eichel is also a better 2-way player, but that wasn't the case until this year, and there is no reason Matthews can't catch up there.

Including Barkov and Draisaitl in your list above is nuts IMHO.

I disagree with a lot of this.

-Tavares was better than Matthews last season.

-Eichel is a better skater and, more importantly to me, a much much better puck carrier.

-Is it even relevant that Matthews’ 2-way game could “catch up”?  It could, but it’s just not.

-Barkov is an incredible player.  One of the best (top 5?) defensive forwards in the league and a 90+ point player.  He is up there with anyone not named McDavid.

I think the only areas Matthews is better than Eichel is as a goal scorer (even now) and FO’s.  However, scoring goals is pretty important.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, inkman said:

@LGR4GM Just log off the internet and take up whiddling 

This is a weird post and no idea what you're responding to.

[inkman]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

This is a weird post and no idea what you're responding to.

I guess it was a poor attempt at referencing Matthews having a good game (arguably better than Jack) with the Leafs smoking the Sabres, thus trying to save you the misery of dealing with Leafs fans wherever that occurs in your life. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, inkman said:

I guess it was a poor attempt at referencing Matthews having a good game (arguably better than Jack) with the Leafs smoking the Sabres, thus trying to save you the misery of dealing with Leafs fans wherever that occurs in your life. 

Oh lol.  Thankfully I don't see that group until after Christmas unless i feel like engaging online. Which i don't. 

[Marions Piazza]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Ok but what makes him a better player?

Should've clarified, sorry. I didn't vote because I don't think that you can say one is better than the other just yet. I think i saw last night that only .01 PPG separates these guys in their careers so far. 

[Marions Piazza]

14 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Samson will be fine.
Pastrnak would have been nice.
Draisaitl goes first.

#unexpectedHaiku

[Thorner]

11 hours ago, Curt said:

I disagree with a lot of this.

-Tavares was better than Matthews last season.

-Eichel is a better skater and, more importantly to me, a much much better puck carrier.

-Is it even relevant that Matthews’ 2-way game could “catch up”?  It could, but it’s just not.

-Barkov is an incredible player.  One of the best (top 5?) defensive forwards in the league and a 90+ point player.  He is up there with anyone not named McDavid.

I think the only areas Matthews is better than Eichel is as a goal scorer (even now) and FO’s.  However, scoring goals is pretty important.

Draft one now, whom do you take? WHOM?!

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Draft one now, whom do you take? WHOM?!

McDavid.  I’d take McDavid.  ?

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

McDavid.  I’d take McDavid.  ?

Cop out 

[mjd1001]

This topic was brought up a few times on Toronto Radio today (590), pretty much started this morning when Brian Burke said that...at the moment, Eichel was the best player in the league.

I listen in on that station quite a bit, and a few times throughout the rest of the day the various hosts brought up some kind related topic...saying 'who is the MVP' and the first guy was falling over himself to Say McDavid over Eichel.  Who has the best shot between Eichel and Matthews...and both (or all 3, I forgot how many were on) said Matthews over Eichel.

I love hockey, I like Toronto as a city, and in general I like Canada...but it seems like if someone is FROM Canada, ANY conversation must start and end with a Canadian being the winner of any contest, the only exception being of that non-canadian is a star of their team.  Over the years (not much recently) I have heard MANY conversation on that station about the 'best goalie of the modern Era' between Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek, and almost every one of them has Hasek rated third to the other two Canadians.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

This topic was brought up a few times on Toronto Radio today (590), pretty much started this morning when Brian Burke said that...at the moment, Eichel was the best player in the league.

I listen in on that station quite a bit, and a few times throughout the rest of the day the various hosts brought up some kind related topic...saying 'who is the MVP' and the first guy was falling over himself to Say McDavid over Eichel.  Who has the best shot between Eichel and Matthews...and both (or all 3, I forgot how many were on) said Matthews over Eichel.

I love hockey, I like Toronto as a city, and in general I like Canada...but it seems like if someone is FROM Canada, ANY conversation must start and end with a Canadian being the winner of any contest, the only exception being of that non-canadian is a star of their team.  Over the years (not much recently) I have heard MANY conversation on that station about the 'best goalie of the modern Era' between Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek, and almost every one of them has Hasek rated third to the other two Canadians.

I’m sure they were obnoxious while doing it, but those radio people were all correct, in my opinion.

[thewookie1]

28 minutes ago, Curt said:

I’m sure they were obnoxious while doing it, but those radio people were all correct, in my opinion.

Matthews shouldn’t even be an MVP candidate seeing as he’s got far more support around him and isn’t blowing his teammates out of the water.

1. Hasek - did the most with the least

2. Roy - incredible player and par with Hasek

3. Brodeur - great goalie with longevity but was, to at least some level, aided by his team’s system 

 

[sabremike]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Matthews shouldn’t even be an MVP candidate seeing as he’s got far more support around him and isn’t blowing his teammates out of the water.

1. Hasek - did the most with the least

2. Roy - incredible player and par with Hasek

3. Brodeur - great goalie with longevity but was, to at least some level, aided by his team’s system 

 

Nobody is even close to Hasek. Any time this argument comes up this is what I say: Remember that game 7 between Dallas and St Louis last year where Bishop had a performance in defeat that people were saying was among the greatest in playoff history? Hasek in his prime had performances for us like that on a fairly routine basis.