Things rly start to tick me off

[Derrico]

Ya I think I’m done with Botts.  

[Wyldnwoody44]

Sadly botts has woefully underwhelmed, and he is sinking this ship pretty quickly. He gets to February and without significant improvement I get an interim GM to ride out the season as we do an extensive search. 

[PerreaultForever]

Krueger's whole shtick is the power of positive thinking. Positive, positive, build everyone up and being positive breeds positive results. Unfortunately, with this team, positive handling just seems to end up as pampering and delusional belief. A real work ethic is still simply missing.

[Kruppstahl]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Krueger's whole shtick is the power of positive thinking. Positive, positive, build everyone up and being positive breeds positive results. Unfortunately, with this team, positive handling just seems to end up as pampering and delusional belief. A real work ethic is still simply missing.

It doesn't help that the intangibles MODO is talking about and which are completely missing from our lineup have clearly not been taken into account by Botterill in evaluating player talent.  

On the Instigators a couple of days ago, the guys were discussing the Dahlin situation and our total lack of a response to it.  Craig Rivet said "The reason there was no response to it is that we don't have the right guys on the team to respond" or words to that effect.

He's right.  Our team is spineless.  

How to fix it?  Fire Botterill immediately.  Replace him with a different GM who values spine and the intangibles our team lacks, and then start re-working the roster around that.

I think Botterill is so gun shy from being raped in the ROR deal he is afraid to pull the trigger. 

He should be replaced on that basis alone.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Kruppstahl

[MattPie]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Krueger's whole shtick is the power of positive thinking. Positive, positive, build everyone up and being positive breeds positive results. Unfortunately, with this team, positive handling just seems to end up as pampering and delusional belief. A real work ethic is still simply missing.

There's a lot of data out there that points to being supportive and positive ends with better results than being a hard ass. Motivating out of fear usually doesn't work for long.

[Ogelthorpe]

5 minutes ago, MattPie said:

There's a lot of data out there that points to being supportive and positive ends with better results than being a hard ass. Motivating out of fear usually doesn't work for long.

Link?

[Curt]

29 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

I think Botterill is so gun shy from being raped in the ROR deal he is afraid to pull the trigger. 

He is gun shy to do what?  Make a trade?  He has made many since the ROR deal.  Why do people keep saying this?

[Randall Flagg]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Krueger's whole shtick is the power of positive thinking. Positive, positive, build everyone up and being positive breeds positive results. Unfortunately, with this team, positive handling just seems to end up as pampering and delusional belief. A real work ethic is still simply missing.

Point to an example of Vancouver working harder rather than just playing better. They took like 5 more penalties than us, of the "not moving your feet and rather using your hands/stick" variety, which is about the only way I could imagine comparing that. 

This team skates hard. They just suck at hockey. It really is that simple.

[Mustache of God]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

He is gun shy to do what?  Make a trade?  He has made many since the ROR deal.  Why do people keep saying this?

He's definitely been gunshy to trade away a player to bring in another player. Sure, he can send draft picks to bring in bodies but that has creaTed a logjam on D. He now needs to make a real trade.

[sweetlou]

This past off season for JBotts was 50/50.  Made good trades in acquiring depth on d by getting Miller and Joker, and only giving up a 5th rd pick and an underachieving Nylander. 

Middle six trade for Vesey only cost you a 3rd rounder.

Good middle six UFA signing in Johansson.

His big miss was not getting any players with grit.  

JT Miller, Brian Boyle, Michael Ferland, and Brett Connolly are just some examples...JBotts decided to stick with Sobotka, ERod, and SHeary!!

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

He's definitely been gunshy to trade away a player to bring in another player. Sure, he can send draft picks to bring in bodies but that has creaTed a logjam on D. He now needs to make a real trade.

Guhle + for Montour, Nylander for Jokiharju.  I agree that D is a logjam that needs to be thinned, everyone does.  But he has made trades.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, MattPie said:

There's a lot of data out there that points to being supportive and positive ends with better results than being a hard ass. Motivating out of fear usually doesn't work for long.

Maybe, but it depends on the personalities of the individuals involved. I don't think there is one universal thing that works for all types. I can't say for sure, but I think we have some divas on this roster. It's not about "fear" for me, it's about a work ethic. You (usually) can't teach this at an nhl level and don't suddenly get it, what you have to do is draft players with that type of attitude, build a culture that rewards and supports it, and then watch it flourish. If you have that culture, then the divas are forced to join it and be better or they get shipped out of town (eg. Boston). All of this comes from the top down. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Point to an example of Vancouver working harder rather than just playing better. They took like 5 more penalties than us, of the "not moving your feet and rather using your hands/stick" variety, which is about the only way I could imagine comparing that. 

This team skates hard. They just suck at hockey. It really is that simple.

You can't just look at one game for that. I've seen a few Canucks games this year and in general they work harder than us and are thus more competitive already in their rebuild. They are drafting well and building a more balanced roster with players of different skill sets that complement each other. Unlike the past, their approach now might be a result of hiring a Boston guy to run things and now that sort of culture might be starting to take hold.

They played poorly in our game, with their back up goalie who plays little, and they still won. They clearly showed up thinking easy game, almost blew it, but in the end they were right.

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, Curt said:

He is gun shy to do what?  Make a trade?  He has made many since the ROR deal.  Why do people keep saying this?

This argument has been hashed out repeatedly. Yes, he’s made trades since. No, he hasn’t moved a bigger name player since. Is he gun shy? Not necessarily. Could he be gun shy? It’s possible. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Thorny

[MattPie]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Maybe, but it depends on the personalities of the individuals involved. I don't think there is one universal thing that works for all types. I can't say for sure, but I think we have some divas on this roster. It's not about "fear" for me, it's about a work ethic. You (usually) can't teach this at an nhl level and don't suddenly get it, what you have to do is draft players with that type of attitude, build a culture that rewards and supports it, and then watch it flourish. If you have that culture, then the divas are forced to join it and be better or they get shipped out of town (eg. Boston). All of this comes from the top down. 

That's fair, but I'm not sure fear is going to create a work ethic. I think it's more likely to create "f' this place, I can't wait to get out of here".

12 hours ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Link?

I'll be honest that I'm most versed in it (and that's not saying much) when it comes to being a parent, but here are a few links I turned up. With kids, there are studies around that show kids that are raised in supportive households have better outcomes than strict authoritarian households. The idea is kids with excessively strict parents learn that - they're going to get in trouble anyway, so why not do dumb stuff? and - I better learn to hide my behavior, keep my head down, and only do what's required to avoid the wrath. The hockey parallel is a player that won't try something creative in case it fails because coach will, say, kick him in the legs on the bench.

In the workplace, it's more mixed than I give it credit for, but.

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/fear-motivate-workers-make-things-worse/

https://www.regent.edu/acad/global/publications/elj/vol7iss1/4ELJ-Thomas.pdf

[LTS]

Yea.. this team sucks..  I wish the coach and GM had a clue about how to make them competitive.

The team is in a playoff position while everyone knows they still need another player.  They are not Toronto who have too much money tied up in 3 players.  They are not Tampa who have a ton of talent to sign and players with NMC/NTC littering their roster.

I'd be really mad if the season finished like this and the team made the playoffs with this crappy coach and GM.  ?

[dudacek]

The Sabres outperformed their roster for the first 10, underperformed it for the next 10, and pretty much matched it for the next 10.

And after 31 games they are pretty much where I think their roster says they should be.

• Are the apparent cultural changes implemented by Ralph going to stick?
• Will the on-ice system changes implemented by Ralph become the ingrained habits of a well-coached team, as he has suggested they are, and indicated they should?
• Can Jason Botterill fix the roster hole that has been obvious for months?
• Are the more remarkable trends of the first third of the season (Carter Hutton, Jack Eichel, special teams) going to continue?

I think the answers to these questions will determine whether this is a year that we can look back on as where the worm finally turned, or whether the current path is another dead end, leading to yet another reset. I don’t hate the effort and most nights the games are tight right to the end. I get frustrated that after all this time we still aren’t “good”, but I also see signs that we aren’t still “bad”

We are at a franchise fork. And I don’t yet feel like watching is a waste of time.

[Randall Flagg]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

Yea.. this team sucks..  I wish the coach and GM had a clue about how to make them competitive.

The team is in a playoff position while everyone knows they still need another player.  They are not Toronto who have too much money tied up in 3 players.  They are not Tampa who have a ton of talent to sign and players with NMC/NTC littering their roster.

I'd be really mad if the season finished like this and the team made the playoffs with this crappy coach and GM.  ?

I get your point, but we aren't in a playoff spot unless you assert Montreal loses their next game AND Tampa goes 1-3-0 or worse in their next 4 to catch up. 

People aren't about to do front flips for having the 10th best points percentage in the conference on the heels of all that's transpired since 2017. They're gonna complain after bad losses and strings of 20+ games with 6 wins or less, and coming into the thread after a lone victory to post these standings really won't change any feelings

Suggesting people shouldn't be upset about it doesn't work after years and years of doing so in the face of continued upsetting results 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[LTS]

23 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I get your point, but we aren't in a playoff spot unless you assert Montreal loses their next game AND Tampa goes 1-3-0 or worse in their next 4 to catch up. 

People aren't about to do front flips for having the 10th best points percentage in the conference on the heels of all that's transpired since 2017. They're gonna complain after bad losses and strings of 20+ games with 6 wins or less, and coming into the thread after a lone victory to post these standings really won't change any feelings

Suggesting people shouldn't be upset about it doesn't work after years and years of doing so in the face of continued upsetting results 

Until they win, they haven’t. I get your point.  My point is that this team is right in the mix of the division and is not as bad as everyone is saying.  By the way, 6 wins in 20+ games and still being in this position in the standings also says something doesn’t it?

[MODO Hockey]

On 12/9/2019 at 4:22 PM, LTS said:

Yea.. this team sucks..  I wish the coach and GM had a clue about how to make them competitive.

The team is in a playoff position while everyone knows they still need another player.  They are not Toronto who have too much money tied up in 3 players.  They are not Tampa who have a ton of talent to sign and players with NMC/NTC littering their roster.

I'd be really mad if the season finished like this and the team made the playoffs with this crappy coach and GM.  ?

 

Maybe it's time to bump this thread again, not to mock you, would never do that - but this is what i ment with this thread in the first place.
Yes it's easy to say now knowing the facts, the facts didnt show statisticly back then but the actuall red flag was there all along.

We need a coach to teach this team what the h3ll this is about, from top to bottom. From fingertip to fingertip, from earth to the moon.

Give us Rikard Gronborg.

[PerreaultForever]

I think the really problem might be the Pegulas don't have a clue about hockey and so they don't have a clue how to hire a GM. 

[North Buffalo]

Time to trade Sam... he is a passenger... talented but not enough tude and drive... way too affable and affable doesn't work in this league... need to find someone with his talent either a young player or high draft pic with drive.

[LTS]

6 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

 

Maybe it's time to bump this thread again, not to mock you, would never do that - but this is what i ment with this thread in the first place.
Yes it's easy to say now knowing the facts, the facts didnt show statisticly back then but the actuall red flag was there all along.

We need a coach to teach this team what the h3ll this is about, from top to bottom. From fingertip to fingertip, from earth to the moon.

Give us Rikard Gronborg.

The team's system has been better this year.  The results have been bad.  You think a coach would make these players (the ones everyone says suck) a better team?  I don't think so.

I'm all for changing things up, just so everyone can realize that continual change is not the answer.  But those who clamor for it are always looking for the next answer without accepting that the answer is to not take drastic action.

Fire everyone.. let's see what happens.  I'll put my money on the fan base only being more incendiary next year and the year after that and the year after that.

I get the passion to change things.  Change doesn't always happen overnight.  We are seeing the results of incompetent ownership.  The people you want to fix things aren't going to sign up to work for incompetent owners.  So you have to hope you get lucky with the next tier of people who are willing to sign up for the job.

It's like hoping your 3rd round draft picks turn into NHL super stars.

[MODO Hockey]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

The team's system has been better this year.  The results have been bad.  You think a coach would make these players (the ones everyone says suck) a better team?  I don't think so.

I'm all for changing things up, just so everyone can realize that continual change is not the answer.  But those who clamor for it are always looking for the next answer without accepting that the answer is to not take drastic action.

Fire everyone.. let's see what happens.  I'll put my money on the fan base only being more incendiary next year and the year after that and the year after that.

I get the passion to change things.  Change doesn't always happen overnight.  We are seeing the results of incompetent ownership.  The people you want to fix things aren't going to sign up to work for incompetent owners.  So you have to hope you get lucky with the next tier of people who are willing to sign up for the job.

It's like hoping your 3rd round draft picks turn into NHL super stars.

I really think a good coach would make this team better, i have to believe it - why ? cause i've seen it happening more than once. 
There is enough talant on this team, it's just not beeing used correctly, atleast in my opinion. 

The important thing is that this happends when the season is over, and not during the season. I felt RK wouldnt be right and i feared it would show during the season, i was blown away when the team actually started winning game after game until it was obvious that RK's system was way to obvious for all other teams, and when it became obvious RK had nothing to contradict it with - and here we are.

And yes you are absolutly correct regarding that change doesnt happen over night, but dont you think Sabres fans are done with this "statement" ? we gonne be off with 9 seasons without playoff. Not many teams have complished this. RK's system is trash to say the least, and everyone knows him now and he cant do sh1t about it, just look at Detroit. 

I'll say it again and many times to come, get us Rikard Gronborg.

[Cheektorado]

On 12/8/2019 at 7:23 AM, Kruppstahl said:

I think Botterill is so gun shy from being raped in the ROR deal he is afraid to pull the trigger. 

I do too.