Jack Eichel: Eliteness

[Doohicksie]

 nm

Edited December 3, 2019 by Doohickie

[Stoner]

Bump.

I'm kind of with inky on this one. This whole thread is much ado about nothing. It's a semantic debate, which can be fun. There's very little disagreement on Eichel, it's just a matter of what word people want to use. No need for "gotchas" with Eichel on a very nice run.

[LGR4GM]

Jack currently at 6th in points and tied for 6th in goals. 

[Thorner]

Eichel leads the NHL in points since Nov. 16.

[thewookie1]

From Friedman's 31 Thoughts

4. Okay, let’s look at some other things. On Nov. 16, Jack Eichel scored four goals in a 4–2 win over Ottawa. Watch him before a face-off with 30 seconds left and the Senators’ net empty:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-code-conduct-coming-nhl/

Someone told me he was telling players not to focus on giving him the puck for a fourth goal, but to play smart and safe. Asked about it last week, though, he said he was actually trying to put Jimmy Vesey in position to score. The winger had no goals in 15 games to that point.

“Maybe an empty-netter gets him going,” the Sabres captain added.

A small thing, but a big thing. His efforts in dragging the Sabres out of their struggles have not gone unnoticed.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by thewookie1

[dudacek]

Can’t think of many more elite Sabre offensive stretches than the 10-11-21 run Jack has put together over the past 12 games.

You’d have to back to 16 and 89 nearly 30 years ago.

[TrueBlueGED]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Can’t think of many more elite Sabre offensive stretches than the 10-11-21 run Jack has put together over the past 12 games.

You’d have to back to 16 and 89 nearly 30 years ago.

Holy crap. I mean, I know when it happened, but putting a number on it just makes it feel like eons ago. I wish I was older for it with clearer memories. 

[Weave]

45 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Holy crap. I mean, I know when it happened, but putting a number on it just makes it feel like eons ago. I wish I was older for it with clearer memories. 

No, you don't wish you were older, LOL.  I saw 30 years ago and wondered where it all went.

[Stoner]

I am not comfortable saying 27 years ago is almost 30 years ago. That means I'm almost 90.

[Neo]

On 12/2/2019 at 10:14 PM, PASabreFan said:

Bump.

I'm kind of with inky on this one. This whole thread is much ado about nothing. It's a semantic debate, which can be fun. There's very little disagreement on Eichel, it's just a matter of what word people want to use. No need for "gotchas" with Eichel on a very nice run.

Good observation on semantics and could be fun.  Elite to me is top four or five.  I am thinking that may be a miserly use of the word.

22 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Holy crap. I mean, I know when it happened, but putting a number on it just makes it feel like eons ago. I wish I was older for it with clearer memories. 

I wish I wasn’t as old when it happened, also for clearer memories ...

[Sabres Fan in NS]

58 minutes ago, Neo said:

Good observation on semantics and could be fun.  Elite to me is top four or five.  I am thinking that may be a miserly use of the word.

I wish I wasn’t as old when it happened, also for clearer memories ...

Top four, or five, in what?  

If scoring, Eich is pretty much right there.

[Neo]

4 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Top four, or five, in what?  

If scoring, Eich is pretty much right there.

I guess I was thinking “players”, without a particular attribute in mind.

[Thorner]

11 game streak for JE. 

[Stoner]

Couple of shower thoughts on eliteness.

If there's this much debate, he's probably not elite yet. If a hot stretch makes news, surprises people, is used as evidence of eliteness, he's probably not elite. Elite players produce; people expect it.

Finally: quick, name Perreault's biggest goal. Name Jack's. Open-ended thought, for now.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

19 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Couple of shower thoughts on eliteness.

If there's this much debate, he's probably not elite yet. If a hot stretch makes news, surprises people, is used as evidence of eliteness, he's probably not elite. Elite players produce; people expect it.

Finally: quick, name Perreault's biggest goal. Name Jack's. Open-ended thought, for now.

I think you may be on to something.  That said, I think it depends a lot on a fan's definition of elite.

The biggest goal questions are easy to answer.  For me, #11's was his 500th, which put him into some very elite company.  Jack has scored many very nice goals, but to me he has not scored his 'biggest' yet.

[bunomatic]

All this Eichel eliteness and not a sniff at the playoffs. 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

All this Eichel eliteness and not a sniff at the playoffs. 

You need a critical mass of talent. We don't have it in our forwards. 

[Stoner]

21 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I think you may be on to something.  That said, I think it depends a lot on a fan's definition of elite.

The biggest goal questions are easy to answer.  For me, #11's was his 500th, which put him into some very elite company.  Jack has scored many very nice goals, but to me he has not scored his 'biggest' yet.

Of course that was Perreault's biggest goal. It was an individual achievement. Perreault's eliteness didn't really amount to much in terms of team success (beyond two good playoff runs and some 100-point regular seasons). That should be our biggest fear about Eichel.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Of course that was Perreault's biggest goal. It was an individual achievement. Perreault's eliteness didn't really amount to much in terms of team success (beyond two good playoff runs and some 100-point regular seasons). That should be our biggest fear about Eichel.

Punch took an expansion team to the finals in year 5.

I think our biggest fear about Eichel shoud be that no one has been able to build a good enough team around him yet.  And this is year 5.

[LGR4GM]

My concern would be with our forward group that a critical mass of talent is not forthcoming either. Mitts and Cozens would both need to be top 6 forwards for us to move upwards and there really is no one behind them in the pipeline that fit the bill. Davidsson, Ruustolainen, Asplund are project our as 3rd line guys with maybe some top 6 upside but again that's a gamble. We need a trade like the Jokiharju trade to come along but in reverse. Just for the record I love the Jokiharju trade and am not saying we shouldn't of done it. Just that we need the opposing trade as well.

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My concern would be with our forward group that a critical mass of talent is not forthcoming either. Mitts and Cozens would both need to be top 6 forwards for us to move upwards and there really is no one behind them in the pipeline that fit the bill. Davidsson, Ruustolainen, Asplund are project our as 3rd line guys with maybe some top 6 upside but again that's a gamble. We need a trade like the Jokiharju trade to come along but in reverse. Just for the record I love the Jokiharju trade and am not saying we shouldn't of done it. Just that we need the opposing trade as well.

Define top six forward: Johansson level? Reinhart? Eichel?

How many top 6 forwards do the Bruins have?

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Define top six forward: Johansson level? Reinhart? Eichel?

How many top 6 forwards do the Bruins have?

I think the Bruins probably have about 5. We have Reinhart, Eichel, and Skinner. Olofsson is really close but I would want to see him do this over a full year. I think the Bruins 5 are very solid and it allows some of those borderline guys to be forced onto that 3rd line. Idk I just don't see enough talent in the forward ranks. I don't think Johansson though is top 6. He is a borderline guy and we need the talent to have him on the 3rd line before we will improve. 

[Zamboni]

For years ... it was Hasek ... and the “average” Sabres. Which made the team overachieve at times and look better than they really were. Management failed to capitalize on having one of the best goalies. For years it was Ovechkin and the “average” Caps. Until they injected that team with better talent thru trades and development and won the cup. When Red Wings won the cup with Osgood, they had a great team in front of a slightly above average goalie. 
I hope Sabres management sees they  need one more top 6 guy. One who has grit and can bury the puck with consistency. I’m breaking a different way from a lot of you. I don’t think the Sabres need to be “all blown up”. Not all aggressive and drastic. One or two top 6 guys will do this team wonders. Waiting and hoping Dylan freaking Cozens as a 19 year old kid will be the immediate answer is obtuse. I hope JB isn’t obtuse. Secondary scoring via 2nd line center is vital. And our weak link now. Typing that last sentence gets me so aggravated because we had a very good one in ROR. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Zamboni

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think the Bruins probably have about 5. We have Reinhart, Eichel, and Skinner. Olofsson is really close but I would want to see him do this over a full year. I think the Bruins 5 are very solid and it allows some of those borderline guys to be forced onto that 3rd line. Idk I just don't see enough talent in the forward ranks. I don't think Johansson though is top 6. He is a borderline guy and we need the talent to have him on the 3rd line before we will improve. 

Obviously Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak.

Krecji Coyle and Debrusk are their next three, IMO. Don't see it as a huge reach where adding one player to Olofsson and Johansson will match that. Even then, we'd still need better goaltending, a more dominant first line, and better game-to-game commitment to match the Bruins level.

But as @Thorny is fond of saying, we're one more good forward away from competing.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Obviously Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak.

Krecji Coyle and Debrusk are their next three, IMO. Don't see it as a huge reach where adding one player to Olofsson and Johansson will match that. Even then, we'd still need better goaltending, a more dominant first line, and better game-to-game commitment to match the Bruins level.

But as @Thorny is fond of saying, we're one more good forward away from competing.

I think this is the other side of that talent coin. Hard work beats talent when... sort of thing. We know that the commitment to going to the dirty areas and winning puck battles is lacking. Maybe additional talent won't be enough because you are right the Bruins have a different compete level.