Ending cheap shots in the NHL

[GASabresIUFAN]

Burtuzzo was suspended 4 games.  Arvidsson is out 4-6 weeks. Something is wrong with this picture.  The scales of justice seem un-balanced.

It’s time to make the punishment fit the crime.  How about 4 weeks instead of 4 games?  Send a message that is enough is enough.  

At some point teams and players will get the message that this type of play and behavior is unacceptable.

[North Buffalo]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Burtuzzo was suspended 4 games.  Arvidsson is out 4-6 weeks. Something is wrong with this picture.  The scales of justice seem un-balanced.

It’s time to make the punishment fit the crime.  How about 4 weeks instead of 4 games?  Send a message that is enough is enough.  

At some point teams and players will get the message that this type of play and behavior is unacceptable.

Agreed, player needs to sit as long as player injured sits at the very least.

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Burtuzzo was suspended 4 games.  Arvidsson is out 4-6 weeks. Something is wrong with this picture.  The scales of justice seem un-balanced.

It’s time to make the punishment fit the crime.  How about 4 weeks instead of 4 games?  Send a message that is enough is enough.  

At some point teams and players will get the message that this type of play and behavior is unacceptable.

Keep the days long suspension but if the player is injured and out of commission then the offender is out just as long. In your example Burtuzzo is suspended four to six weeks on top of four games.

[inkman]

Until they admit their system is broken, it won't be fixed. Too many former players who are indoctrinated with these antiquated beliefs stemming from players who "policed themselves".  

As far as the eye for eye justice system.  It won't work. Too many times the players are only injured for days when the players intentions should have got them suspended for months or the season.  

[miles]

the idea of an injury causes the offender to get the same vacation time + a game would completely change the way hockey is played. nobody would check anyone.

People would run away from bogosian to make sure he didnt shatter as they skated by him. Could you imagine if you gave bogosian a minor check and he was out 67 games, since that's his MO, and the dude that accidentally bumped him got 70 games b/c bogo is made of glass

Edited November 25, 2019 by miles

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Agreed, player needs to sit as long as player injured sits at the very least.

I've thought this for a while, but if it was formalized along these lines- that a suspended player could not return until the player her injured returned- there could be a bunch of unintended consequences and gamesmanship about when an injured player is ready to play.  Extreme example:  McDavid commits an infraction that knocks Okposo out of the league for good:  How long does McD get suspended for?

[LTS]

It seems to me that the NHLPA should be more involved in helping the NHL hand out longer punishment for this kind of stuff.

I am sure the NHLPA, overall, doesn't care as much because their members still get paid.  However, it's not good for the game.

I think in instances where the infractions are egregious, players, even without a prior record, should be sitting out for weeks.  

[triumph_communes]

No suspension for Kucherov, Sobotka still out.  The DoPS is just a circus.

[inkman]

28 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

No suspension for Kucherov, Sobotka still out.  The DoPS is just a circus.

What's the opposite of a suspension?  A bonus?  That's what Kucherov should have been given.  You got rid of our worst player and because we're too stupid to bench him, here's $50k.  

[Carmel Corn]

Turn the clock back and change the equipment.  Reduce the size and thickness of padding (remember old school shoulder pads?) and get rid of helmets.  May have to tinker with the sticks as well to reduce mph on shots.   Less armor to discourage the hitting and encourage more skating.

Get rid of the instigator rule too

Call Keller and Keller

Seriously though, until the players themselves collectively agree that it is not acceptable, no rule change will completely and fairly address this problem.

[Zamboni]

In fantasyland ... I would want hardcore punishments on headshots.

1st intentional head hit ... suspended without pay for three months.

2nd intentional head hit ... suspended without pay for 82 games.

3rd intentional head hit ... suspended without pay for three years.

4th intentional head hit ... expelled from the NHL as a player for life.

”intentional head hit” is judged by the commissioner, the head of DOPS, and all the GM’s (except the GM of the opposing player) get a vote. 2/3 vote is needed to to rule that it’s an intentional hit.

After 5 years, As a player, if you are “clean” after you have an offense, then the one offense is “wiped off” your record. 

Any money “collected” from the players would be paid to a charity or players foundation.
 

something along those lines, I think would curb a lot of head shots.

[Brawndo]

Bertuzzo’s Cross Checks to Arvinsson’s Back occurred after he was getting a penalty. He looked directly at the referee saw that his arm was up and then he cross checked him multiple times. He was consciously attempting to hurt another player, his suspension should be longer. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

In fantasyland ... I would want hardcore punishments on headshots.

1st intentional head hit ... suspended without pay for three months.

2nd intentional head hit ... suspended without pay for 82 games.

3rd intentional head hit ... suspended without pay for three years.

4th intentional head hit ... expelled from the NHL as a player for life.

”intentional head hit” is judged by the commissioner, the head of DOPS, and all the GM’s (except the GM of the opposing player) get a vote. 2/3 vote is needed to to rule that it’s an intentional hit.

After 5 years, As a player, if you are “clean” after you have an offense, then the one offense is “wiped off” your record. 

Any money “collected” from the players would be paid to a charity or players foundation.
 

something along those lines, I think would curb a lot of head shots.

While we're at it, maybe go back to the steam powered Zambonis.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Burtuzzo was suspended 4 games.  Arvidsson is out 4-6 weeks. Something is wrong with this picture.  The scales of justice seem un-balanced.

It’s time to make the punishment fit the crime.  How about 4 weeks instead of 4 games?  Send a message that is enough is enough.  

At some point teams and players will get the message that this type of play and behavior is unacceptable.

Unfortunately I don't think the front offices, or more importantly the players, want anything close to accountability - and here's why:

1) GM's would have to deal with a new host of salary cap issues if players faced longer suspensions

2) Lost playing time (and money) for the player - the players, the teams, and the league, don't want their guys sitting very long, especially if he is a superstar (see Kucherov v. Sobokta's knee)

3) Lost revenue for the league - it's bad enough one player is out, now two are going to sit?  Depending on your assumptions, it's unlikely the reduction of suspendable infractions justifies the additional player days lost from a "more appropriate" punishment (think something similar to ROI on a investment)

4) If the players really cared, the NHLPA would address this in the collective bargaining negotiations

At the end of the day if comes down to money and playing time.  Nobody wants to lose a significant chunk of either one...

[mjd1001]

The solution for cheap shots is simply longer suspensions and much higher fines.

The NHLPA won't go for that though...even if it is player on player violence, they are defending the accused in most cases.

How about this....the first $100,000 of every fine goes to a charity (I think they do something like this already).  Make the fines huge and the suspensions really harsh....and the REST of the fine or money lost goes into a pool..that at the end of the year is distributed among all the players who did NOT get fined or suspended that year.

I think that might reduce SOME of the NHLPA and players oppositions to harsh fines/suspensions.

[Curt]

10 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Turn the clock back and change the equipment.  Reduce the size and thickness of padding (remember old school shoulder pads?) and get rid of helmets.  May have to tinker with the sticks as well to reduce mph on shots.   Less armor to discourage the hitting and encourage more skating.

Get rid of the instigator rule too

Call Keller and Keller

Seriously though, until the players themselves collectively agree that it is not acceptable, no rule change will completely and fairly address this problem.

When you start taking significant money out of players pockets ($50k+) or making them sit for 10+ games, they will start to pay attention.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I was thinking about this kind of punishment for head shots.  Starting with Cernak.

 

[PerreaultForever]

Maybe this thread explains Buffalo's culture?

You all want a league that has never addressed this issue properly to take care of it rather than having a team that'd take care of it themselves, or better yet be scary enough to keep teams from taking those sort of liberties against it. 

Screw the league, give me a tougher team.

 

[Torpedo Forecheck]

I think the pendulum may have swung too far away from tough, physical hockey. At one point in time it had swung too far in favor of goonism and defense. I applaud trying to bring more skill into the game. Having said that, a balance needs to be struck. There a players out on the ice, we all know who they are, and they are playing like they are courageous-but they're really cowards. If they had to pay the piper for their actions they wouldn't be playing. Cernak is one of these phony brave guys.This is an emotional sport, and if you have a team full of guys who can't get fired about a teammate being cheapshot, I don't know what to tell you other than you have the wrong players.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Torpedo Forecheck

[Zamboni]

Show me a team full of Barnaby’s, Rays, Mays, Kaletas, and Shoenfelds. And I’ll show you a team in 2019/20 that lose 95% of their games. But hey, at least we’ll see some fights every game! If the game was based on how many fights won, we would win the cup.

Seriously, I get the desire for a “tougher” team. It’s character. Do we have enough character guys willing to battle and have each other’s back. But In today’s NHL, it must be a mix of not only character to battle hard and be a thorn to play against, but also talent to find the back of the net too. If fans just want a few meatheads to play 5-6 mins a night and go around looking for a check to deliver, that’s such a waste. And not today’s NHL. At all. JB and RK need to either find it on the roster, or infuse In one or two who have grit. Grit who score. Tom Wilson, Brady Tkachuk types. I hope Alplund develops into something In that vein.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Show me a team full of Barnaby’s, Rays, Mays, Kaletas, and Shoenfelds. And I’ll show you a team in 2019/20 that lose 95% of their games. But hey, at least we’ll see some fights every game! If the game was based on how many fights won, we would win the cup.

Seriously, I get the desire for a “tougher” team. It’s character. Do we have enough character guys willing to battle and have each other’s back. But In today’s NHL, it must be a mix of not only character to battle hard and be a thorn to play against, but also talent to find the back of the net too. If fans just want a few meatheads to play 5-6 mins a night and go around looking for a check to deliver, that’s such a waste. And not today’s NHL. At all. JB and RK need to either find it on the roster, or infuse In one or two who have grit. Grit who score. Tom Wilson, Brady Tkachuk types. I hope Alplund develops into something In that vein.

Aka Pekar 

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Aka Pekar 

Well, if the 2019/20 or even the 20/21 Sabres are going to rely on one rookie NHLer, then that’s bad news. But, I agree that he can be a part of the solution. A part.

[GASabresIUFAN]

26 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Well, if the 2019/20 or even the 20/21 Sabres are going to rely on one rookie NHLer, then that’s bad news. But, I agree that he can be a part of the solution. A part.

I thought you’d like my Deadpool solution.

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I thought you’d like my Deadpool solution.

I saw Deadpool. Sorry I guess I missed the reference/joke. I feel shame.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Show me a team full of Barnaby’s, Rays, Mays, Kaletas, and Shoenfelds. And I’ll show you a team in 2019/20 that lose 95% of their games. But hey, at least we’ll see some fights every game! If the game was based on how many fights won, we would win the cup.

You didn't watch the playoffs last year? Year before? You haven't seen all of Toronto's big shot talent fall to Boston 2 years in a row? 

It's not about having "a team full of........" it's about having a balanced roster with skill players mixed with tough players and having a team that sticks together where players feel protected and thus unified and will give that extra and pay the price because they know another guy out there has their back.

Look at the way Boston handled a guy like Krug. Little guy with skill could have gotten run out of the league early but they paired him with first Chara and then Carlo and he grew up (so to speak) strong and fearless and will drop 'em if he has to and plays with fire and intensity. Fearless, cause he's a Bruin, and they have each other's backs. It's a philosophy. It 's hockey. It wins.