Botterill, "imperative to keep our depth on defense"

[Curt]

1 hour ago, miles said:

61 points and didnt get along with the teams franchise player. I get that it wasn't a good trade, but the reality is, from what I read/ saw ror was a cancer in the clubhouse. 

Sometimes people just don't get along, and the sabres picked jack. 

So, problems in the locker room may have existed, but that doesn’t change that ROR was a great player for Buffalo.  Saying that he wasn’t is just not true.

[freester]

Look what a competent GM has done for Edmonton.  They had there own Botteril (Peter Chiarelli) who destroyed the team with terrible trades and drafts, now with Holland they make a great trade to rid themselves of Lucic and acquire James Neal .  He hires an experienced good coach and voila they are a contender.  They were a shitshow just like us last year.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, freester said:

Look what a competent GM has done for Edmonton.  They had there own Botteril (Peter Chiarelli) who destroyed the team with terrible trades and drafts, now with Holland they make a great trade to rid themselves of Lucic and acquire James Neal .  He hires an experienced good coach and voila they are a contender.  They were a shitshow just like us last year.

The oilers are a bad example. Their roster has several issues that have yet to be addressed by the new GM. Zach Kassian and James Neal aren't going to keep shooting at 23 and 22% just like their starting GT Koskinen and Smith are probably playing above what they can. That said, they did make a good move by ditching Lucic and hiring a decent coach but the Oilers still have major roster issues. 

[freester]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The oilers are a bad example. Their roster has several issues that have yet to be addressed by the new GM. Zach Kassian and James Neal aren't going to keep shooting at 23 and 22% just like their starting GT Koskinen and Smith are probably playing above what they can. That said, they did make a good move by ditching Lucic and hiring a decent coach but the Oilers still have major roster issues. 

They are light years ahead of us. 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, freester said:

They are light years ahead of us. 

That's your opinion and that is fine. The fact is they are not but their results currently are. Having Connor McDavid helps. Their sh% are high but they also get to the right places on the ice so that might stay high. There's a thin roster there and holding them up as example of something is a weak argument. Their new GM didn't suddenly make them loads better. He has barely made moves. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by LGR4GM

[freester]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's your opinion and that is fine. The fact is they are not but their results currently are. Having Connor McDavid helps. Their sh% are high but they also get to the right places on the ice so that might stay high. There's a thin roster there and holding them up as example of something is a weak argument. Their new GM didn't suddenly make them loads better. He has barely made moves. 

Botteril has been here nearly 3x as long as Holland with total failure.  While Holland has not been in Edmonton very long, he has made an enormous impact.  Botteril might have been able to trade Okposo for Neal but he didn't.  Botteril could have hired an experienced coach twice but he didn't.  Edmonton's roster is certainly flawed but much better than ours.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, freester said:

Botteril has been here nearly 3x as long as Holland with total failure.  While Holland has not been in Edmonton very long, he has made an enormous impact.  Botteril might have been able to trade Okposo for Neal but he didn't.  Botteril could have hired an experienced coach twice but he didn't.  Edmonton's roster is certainly flawed but much better than ours.

Edmonton made the playoffs in Connor's second year correct? Then they missed for 2 years. Holland hasn't done anything so holding him up as some foil to Botterill is just a weak argument. Someday and maybe soon that might be the case but trading Lucic and hiring a coach is about all he has done. 

Edmonton's roster is not much better than ours. McDavid is better than Eichel so that helps. 

I will add that Edmonton's prospect pool specifically with the forwards is much deeper than ours. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

The Oilers roster is among the worst I've ever seen, if you look past the first line. 

I simply don't believe they will be in the picture at the end of the season barring 130-140 point finishes for McD and Draisaitl. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The Oilers roster is among the worst I've ever seen, if you look past the first line. 

I simply don't believe they will be in the picture at the end of the season barring 130-140 point finishes for McD and Draisaitl. 

Yes. That was my conclusion. Maybe the do it this year but in the long run you can't expect those scoring rates from Kassian and Neil to be sustainable. Their GM has some work to do and I think dumping Lucic was a good move along those lines. 

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

We are not in a good position to trade.  Nor is there much out there.  Too late now.  He had all offseason.

I just feel like outside of a couple of players - no one on this team has any value.  I guess we could move prospects but... 

The following players - Vesey Sobotka Sheary Okposo Bogosian and Scandella - count 23.875 mil against the cap.  They have a grand total of 19 points between the 6 of them.  

At this point none of them has a lick of trade value that can actually improve the team right now (Bogo and Scandella can probably fetch late picks at the deadline for D-depth for playoff teams).  

No teams have a lot of cap space and the trade chips buffalo has - Risto, McCabe, maybe Montour? -  won't net you a top 6 forward.  There's depth at defense sure - but no one there is talented enough to get anything back.  

Should we package a bunch of prospects and picks to try and acquire someone?  I'm not sure - teams tend to try and move guys they may have overpaid or are rentals.  Is propping up this team really worth it at this point?  Poor goaltending, and no one who can score goals - its not something some dudes just going to come in and fix.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Drag0nDan

[Gatorman0519]

3 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I just feel like outside of a couple of players - no one on this team has any value.  I guess we could move prospects but... 

The following players - Vesey Sobotka Sheary Okposo Bogosian and Scandella - count 23.875 mil against the cap.  They have a grand total of 19 points between the 6 of them.  

At this point none of them has a lick of trade value that can actually improve the team right now (Bogo and Scandella can probably fetch late picks at the deadline for D-depth for playoff teams).  

No teams have a lot of cap space and the trade chips buffalo has - Risto, McCabe, maybe Montour? -  won't net you a top 6 forward.  There's depth at defense sure - but no one there is talented enough to get anything back.  

Should we package a bunch of prospects and picks to try and acquire someone?  I'm not sure - teams tend to try and move guys they may have overpaid or are rentals.  Is propping up this team really worth it at this point?  Poor goaltending, and no one who can score goals - its not something some dudes just going to come in and fix.

Agreed.  I’m thinking this team has a Good chance not to hit 80 points yet again.  Not being negative but it’s pretty clear.  This team is years away from thinking playoffs.  To be a contender would require a 50% roster turnover with the right pieces added.  The suffering will continue.  

[Drag0nDan]

1 minute ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Agreed.  I’m thinking this team has a Good chance not to hit 80 points yet again.  Not being negative but it’s pretty clear.  This team is years away from thinking playoffs.  To be a contender would require a 50% roster turnover with the right pieces added.  The suffering will continue.  

On the plus side - there is going to be major turnover next season with all those FAs outbound.  

Bogo Scandella Sobotka sheary vesey hunwick girgs larsson are all UFAs and i doubt they bring any of them back.

[Zamboni]

24 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

On the plus side - there is going to be major turnover next season with all those FAs outbound.  

Bogo Scandella Sobotka sheary vesey hunwick girgs larsson are all UFAs and i doubt they bring any of them back.

Out of that list ... I think two maybe three will be back. Sign one or two year deals.

[Thorner]

30 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

On the plus side - there is going to be major turnover next season with all those FAs outbound.  

Bogo Scandella Sobotka sheary vesey hunwick girgs larsson are all UFAs and i doubt they bring any of them back.

Depends if it's another punt year or not, see: last summer

[Gatorman0519]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Out of that list ... I think two maybe three will be back. Sign one or two year deals.

Girgensons has value as a grinder on the 4th line and a penalty killer.  You need those guys.

[OhMyDahlin]

Murray didn't get enough defense, Botterill doesn't get enough offense...the next GM will nail it. Lol.

[calti]

22 hours ago, freester said:

Look what a competent GM has done for Edmonton.  They had there own Botteril (Peter Chiarelli) who destroyed the team with terrible trades and drafts, now with Holland they make a great trade to rid themselves of Lucic and acquire James Neal .  He hires an experienced good coach and voila they are a contender.  They were a shitshow just like us last year.

oh just give them some time. they will be a shitshow again this yr probably

[calti]

20 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Agreed.  I’m thinking this team has a Good chance not to hit 80 points yet again.  Not being negative but it’s pretty clear.  This team is years away from thinking playoffs.  To be a contender would require a 50% roster turnover with the right pieces added.  The suffering will continue.  

i kept telling them this but they wouldnt listen to me.And I know nothing about hockey.Imagine if they listened to some knowledgable people!