LGR4GM Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, pi2000 said: What makes no sense is paying a guy 7-8m/yr because he puts up 65pts next to Eichel. How many points would he have playing with Johansson? 45-50 at most? That's what I would base his contract on. Eichel is on pace for 110 points, Reinhart only on pace for just better than half that, playing on the same line just isn't good enough. IF he's asking for +6m then I'm looking to move him. A true sniper would put up 50g on Eichels wing... and thats what playoff teams have. Eichel needs his Mogilny. Do better, don't settle. Just so we are all clear. If Sam Reinhart requests more than 6mil in money going forward you would not sign him? You would move on? You would let him walk free. Is this correct? Edited January 15, 2020 by LGR4GM Quote
Zamboni Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 Sammy is a coach killer! Gerard Gallant is gonzo Quote
nfreeman Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Just so we are all clear. If Sam Reinhart requests more than 6mil in money going forward you would not sign him? You would move on? You would let him walk free. Is this correct? @pi2000 can certainly speak for himself, but I interpreted him to mean that he would trade Reino (not let him leave in FA for nothing) rather than give him a big contract. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, pi2000 said: How many points would he have playing with Johansson? 45-50 at most? That's what I would base his contract on. We can check and see if this has merit or if you're just making stuff up - in the last 3 seasons, Reinhart has spent 38% of his ES time away from Eichel. He has 25 goals and 67 points with Eichel and 20 goals and 21 assists without him. Prorating these rates out for a full season, we would have: With Eichel: 82 games, ~16 even strength goals, ~42 even strength points Without Eichel: 82 games, ~21 even strength goals, ~43 even strength points This includes the time he spent centering Griffith and Moulson in 2017-18, as well as his stretches with last year's Sobotka and Sheary/Rodrigues. So I don't really buy your random guessing. It makes sense that his assists spike with a guy like Jack and his shot (as well as Olofsson/Skinner when he's up there) but when he's NOT with Jack his linemates have generally been horrendous, aside from stints with ROR in the first year of this analysis (which was his worst ES year of the 3 by FAR, and so doesn't contribute heavily). These statistics indicate why we were so anxious to see Reinhart drive his own line in the first place, and the fact that I'm seeing the conclusion that he can't being drawn from the simple fact that our coaches don't DO it rather than actually seeing what happens, I am inclined to ignore the rest of what the people saying this have to say on the subject By the way, Sam averages ~15-20 PP points per season in the last 3, and there's no need to remove Eichel from the equation there, so that gives us the ~60 point player we see in that span. And he's gotten better at piling up points every season of his career and will approach 70 this one Edited January 15, 2020 by Randall Flagg 4 4 1 Quote
Randall Flagg Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 I actually don't even want Reinhart to drive his own line. I want to build a second line with 3 Reinhart-tier players that all complement each other. We shouldn't have to put one of our 4 good forwards with trash year after year Quote
LGR4GM Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I actually don't even want Reinhart to drive his own line. I want to build a second line with 3 Reinhart-tier players that all complement each other. We shouldn't have to put one of our 4 good forwards with trash year after year Wanting 3 more 60 point players is settling... he said sarcastically. Quote
Palm Trees And Taxes Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 I really do not get the Reinart hate going on here: Granted Sam was a #2 pick overall, and with picks that high, you are hoping for a 70+ point player minimum and a possible franchise guy. We get that Sam isn't that guy, but 60+ point players don't grow on trees. Sam is a clear top 6 forward, something that has been an issue for Buffalo for many years now. There are problems on this roster for the now and going forward. in no way do I feel Sam is a part of the problem. He can easily be part of the solution. 1 Quote
Taro T Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, pi2000 said: What makes no sense is paying a guy 7-8m/yr because he puts up 65pts next to Eichel. How many points would he have playing with Johansson? 45-50 at most? That's what I would base his contract on. Eichel is on pace for 110 points, Reinhart only on pace for just better than half that, playing on the same line just isn't good enough. IF he's asking for +6m then I'm looking to move him. A true sniper would put up 50g on Eichels wing... and thats what playoff teams have. Eichel needs his Mogilny. Do better, don't settle. So, in Pi World, neither Skinner not Olofsson is a "sniper?". Interesting. Quote
LTS Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 58 minutes ago, Taro T said: So, in Pi World, neither Skinner not Olofsson is a "sniper?". Interesting. Look.. it's important that you get 50 goals... that's a requirement. So much so that the only true snipers in the league since 2010 are: Ovechkin x5 Stamkos x2 Crosby - x1 Perry - x1 Malkin - x1 Draisaitl - x1 Those guys grow on trees.. you can get them anywhere. ? 2 Quote
Randall Flagg Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 Jack's gonna enter that list this season Quote
LTS Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Jack's gonna enter that list this season Cool.. so he's good enough to score 50 and set up another guy to score 50... ? Quote
mjd1001 Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 6 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Just so we are all clear. If Sam Reinhart requests more than 6mil in money going forward you would not sign him? You would move on? You would let him walk free. Is this correct? Myself I wouldn't let him walk for free, but I do have some doubts about whether or not I want him as one of the top 5 highest players on my team. I really, REALLY, really, really want to see him get some prolonged ice time on a line without Eichel though before I make that decision. At least 10 games, closer to 20 games would be better. Quote
Curt Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: We can check and see if this has merit or if you're just making stuff up - in the last 3 seasons, Reinhart has spent 38% of his ES time away from Eichel. He has 25 goals and 67 points with Eichel and 20 goals and 21 assists without him. Prorating these rates out for a full season, we would have: With Eichel: 82 games, ~16 even strength goals, ~42 even strength points Without Eichel: 82 games, ~21 even strength goals, ~43 even strength points This includes the time he spent centering Griffith and Moulson in 2017-18, as well as his stretches with last year's Sobotka and Sheary/Rodrigues. So I don't really buy your random guessing. It makes sense that his assists spike with a guy like Jack and his shot (as well as Olofsson/Skinner when he's up there) but when he's NOT with Jack his linemates have generally been horrendous, aside from stints with ROR in the first year of this analysis (which was his worst ES year of the 3 by FAR, and so doesn't contribute heavily). These statistics indicate why we were so anxious to see Reinhart drive his own line in the first place, and the fact that I'm seeing the conclusion that he can't being drawn from the simple fact that our coaches don't DO it rather than actually seeing what happens, I am inclined to ignore the rest of what the people saying this have to say on the subject By the way, Sam averages ~15-20 PP points per season in the last 3, and there's no need to remove Eichel from the equation there, so that gives us the ~60 point player we see in that span. And he's gotten better at piling up points every season of his career and will approach 70 this one This is wonderful. Quote
Zamboni Posted January 15, 2020 Report Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, mjd1001 said: Myself I wouldn't let him walk for free, but I do have some doubts about whether or not I want him as one of the top 5 highest players on my team. I really, REALLY, really, really want to see him get some prolonged ice time on a line without Eichel though before I make that decision. At least 10 games, closer to 20 games would be better. Yep. They did the same thing to Skinner last season before signing him to a long term big money big cap hit contract ... ? Edited January 15, 2020 by Zamboni Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Sam’s ears must have been burning. He seems to have found himself lately or is it just the 2nd half thing Edited January 16, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN 1 Quote
Scottysabres Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 I'm indifferent to Reinhart to be honest. If he stays, great. If he's moved, I'm equally as fine with it. I don't perceive him as irreplaceable at this time, but he is a top 2 line winger worthy of keeping. Just not for anything over 6.5/7 a season. 1 Quote
Crusader1969 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 I’ve noticed he has been scoring with his one timers, something he hadn’t don’t much of in first few years in the league. Don’t have the fancy stars to back it up but certainly seems to have a much improved shot. 1 Quote
PalmTreeMafia Posted January 16, 2020 Report Posted January 16, 2020 A couple simple Reinhart stats worth noting: 1. He is currently ranked 49th in the NHL for points. 2. He is currently ranked 3rd in the 2014 NHL draft class for career points (behind Draisatl and Pastrnak). So no, he's not in the untouchable talent tier of Eichel and Dahlin. But he's clearly a top line NHL forward. There are technically only 93 of these types of players, and they don't often become available through unrestricted free agency or even through the trade market. You pay him his market value and only trade him in an obviously favorable deal. No more O'Reilly trades, JNot!! 1 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 Sam Reinhart. I believe he has been called lazy, a passenger, weak, and if we keep him we are settling. All things which I quite frankly think are bull##it. But anyways https://theathletic.com/1550914/2020/01/21/evaluating-sam-reinharts-value-as-he-approaches-restricted-free-agency/ Quote Sabres coach Ralph Krueger backed up that compliment. “His conditioning is among the top of our team,” Krueger said. “He works as hard as anybody on his body and his overall professional package, which is an example for everybody.” “What we love about Sam is how he’s embraced the necessity of playing without the puck and staying above it when the others are below it, tracking back hard and working with our D if called upon, being low if Jack’s high in the D-zone,” the coach said. “All those things, Jack and Sam are an amazing duo. Sam’s offense is growing out of that defense, which is nice for us to see.” Quote
dudacek Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) From the same article: The 175-game mark on the above chart is Jan. 1, 2018, when Reinhart scored at the Winter Classic and really kickstarted his career. Since that day, he’s 40th among forwards in points (all stats are through Jan. 19). There are significant players surrounding him. Monahan $6.3 over 7 starting in 2016 Stone $9.5 over 8 in 2019 Connor $7.1 over 7 in 2019 Duchene $8 over 7 in 2019 Guentzel $6 over 5 in 2019 Voracek $8.2 over 8 in 2016 Couture $8 over 8 in 2019 Radulov $6.2 over 5 in 2017 Tkachuk $7 million over 3 in 2019 (Barzal's entry-level deal expires this summer) The article states the 50th highest-paid forward in the league right now makes $6.7 million Like it or not, these are his peers Sabrespace. Good luck signing him to that $6 million ceiling this summer. Good luck finding an upgrade. Edited January 21, 2020 by dudacek 1 Quote
Curt Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, dudacek said: Good luck signing him to that $6 million ceiling this summer. Good luck finding an upgrade. If he signs for 6+ years at anything under $7M, I think that’s an absolute bargain. Quote
pi2000 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, dudacek said: From the same article: The 175-game mark on the above chart is Jan. 1, 2018, when Reinhart scored at the Winter Classic and really kickstarted his career. Since that day, he’s 40th among forwards in points (all stats are through Jan. 19). There are significant players surrounding him. Monahan $6.3 over 7 starting in 2016 Stone $9.5 over 8 in 2019 Connor $7.1 over 7 in 2019 Duchene $8 over 7 in 2019 Guentzel $6 over 5 in 2019 Voracek $8.2 over 8 in 2016 Couture $8 over 8 in 2019 Radulov $6.2 over 5 in 2017 Tkachuk $7 million over 3 in 2019 (Barzal's entry-level deal expires this summer) The article states the 50th highest-paid forward in the league right now makes $6.7 million Like it or not, these are his peers Sabrespace. Good luck signing him to that $6 million ceiling this summer. Good luck finding an upgrade. 40th? Do better. Any of those players would out produce him alongside Eichel, and it wouldn't even be close. Quote
LGR4GM Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, pi2000 said: 40th? Do better. Any of those players would out produce him alongside Eichel, and it wouldn't even be close. Wow didn't know you were Dr Strange. Maybe you should use that power to see all possible alternatives for something useful like the draft. Quote
Doohicksie Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, pi2000 said: 40th? Do better. Any of those players would out produce him alongside Eichel, and it wouldn't even be close. Edited January 21, 2020 by Doohickie Quote
pi2000 Posted January 21, 2020 Report Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: Please stop with the cyberbullying. I've developed an extreme sensitivity to that type of stuff, I'm fragile, handle with care plz thanks. Quote
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