Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Thanks. Curt.  Not really sad.  More like comfortably numb.  

I get it.

[apuszczalowski]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What the actual ***** would we do with ANOTHER top 4 defender? 

Im sorry, how does moving a 60pt player making 3.65mil free up enough cap space to help us now? What are we going to do? Trade for a 3.65mil or less center that is awesome? Find me one. I can literally only name 1 and that is Cirelli in tampa. They ain't trading us for a soon to be RFA Reinhart. 

If you are trading Reinhart the only thing that makes sense is to trade him for an A level prospect about to the hit or in their first NHL year and something else. 

For example, Morgan Frost and Bobby Brink. You also have to be 100% sure that both those guys are top 6 players because if even one of them misses, you screw this entire thing up. 

Oh no, you screw it up and the Sabres risk not making the playoffs and have to continue to rebuild? Definitely don't want to mess up what they have going

I only said top 4 defencemen because I wouldn't take anything less then top 4 (if they trade for defence), they have plenty of defence and don't necessarily need more unless its an upgrade. My point is you only move him if you are getting something good back that makes another part of the team better

Also whats his cap hit going to look like in his next contract? Can the Sabres afford it?

Again, what else can you offer in a trade in order to get something of value back? Or are you expecting that they can dangle Bogo out there in a deal for Malkin/Crosby? The Sabres may have to throw in a pick/prospect or 2 to sweeten a deal and get something even better, but it would be alot less then what they need to throw in to take the junk away and get a good return back.

Edited January 14, 2020 by apuszczalowski

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, #freejame said:

In the Sandlot universe it is and it gets everyone riled up. Liger’s GIF was from the Sandlot, when Benny walks away from a fight with the beast. I was trying to bring Liger back into the Reinhart fight through another Sandlot reference. I’m sure he understood the reference. I’m sorry you didn’t. 

I'm done. After 5 years, I see no further point in this argument. 

[#freejame]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm done. After 5 years, I see no further point in this argument. 

Be strong, there are true believers out there. 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm done. After 5 years, I see no further point in this argument. 

Even if someone points out that he's ... y'know ... slow?

[LGR4GM]

On pace for 68 points...

[inkman]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

On pace for 68 points...

He gon get paid.  So this will never end.  ?

[SwampD]

7x7.

Just do it.

[inkman]

32 minutes ago, SwampD said:

7x7.

Just do it.

Soon. Before he goes on his usual 2nd half tear and puts up 80 points. 

[Kruppstahl]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

7x7.

Just do it.

Oh God.

The thread title says "sign him or trade him" but what about Option 3: sit around and do nothing? 

That's Botterill's favorite strategy.  

I can't imagine Botterill engineering a significant trade with Reinhart at the center of things, even though that is what we should be doing with him.  I'm already expecting him to be here long term as a big part of our continued problems.

 

 

[pi2000]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

On pace for 68 points...

There's more to being a solid hockey player than putting up passenger points on line with a top 3 center in the universe.

Is 68 points good? Yeah it is.  You know what's better? 80, 90, 100 points.  Don't settle.  

[Broken Ankles]

20 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

There's more to being a solid hockey player than putting up passenger points on line with a top 3 center in the universe.

Is 68 points good? Yeah it is.  You know what's better? 80, 90, 100 points.  Don't settle.  

If you wanted 100 then you should have drafted Leon when you had a chance.  Realistically, what UFA is out there that can score like Sam and wants to play in Buffalo?  Or what combination of players would have to put together to trade for a player with term that has this potential?   I see both sides of the argument but at the end of day there is a player in his prime, you have cap space next year to afford it, and he is one of very few 60-80 point players probably willing to sign a long term deal with Buffalo. You probably just do it.   I also acknowledge @nfreeman’s point about how this core hasn’t proven they can win;  but I see JB too risk averse to make a blockbuster trade that involves Sam plus parts.  

[Doohicksie]

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

There's more to being a solid hockey player than putting up passenger points on line with a top 3 center in the universe.

Is 68 points good? Yeah it is.  You know what's better? 80, 90, 100 points.  Don't settle.  

"We want to improve our team.  I know!  Let's get rid of our second-best points getter."

This makes no sense.

[matter2003]

Reinhart is NOT a 2C. He does not play well at Center.  Yes, it would be nice if he was because that would help solve our issues.  But he isn't.  He is a complimentary winger on a top line that will consistently get you 65-75 points most years.  

People need to give up on the notion that Reinhart can become a 2C on this team.  He is NEVER going to be that...every attempt at putting him at center throughout his time in the NHL has failed miserably.  Some players just cannot handle the extra responsibility of being a center and are better suited to play wing in the NHL.  Reinhart is one of those players, nothing wrong with that.  People just need to stop trying to put a square peg in a round hole with him and wanting him to be the 2C on this team. You can't force a player into a role he is not suited for and just hope he somehow figures it out.  If that was going to happen he would have done it already, as they have tried several times.  Paul Hamilton has noted the same thing multiple times on his WGR spots and has gone so far as to say Reinhart is "awful" at center.

In my mind, JBotts need to do whatever he needs to do to get Seattle to take Okposo's contract off our hands and sweeten the deal with prospects or picks and then sign Reinhart to an extension.  I'd rather be paying $7-8 million for Reinhart and his 65-75 points on the top line for the next 5 or 6 years than paying Okposo $6 million to play a 3rd line checking/grinding role on the LOG line even though he is pretty good at it...you can get a guy that fits that role for about $850K and use that extra money to sign Reinhart to an extension.  

We don't need to create another major scoring hole on a team that doesn't score enough as it is. As the poster mentioning trying to find an 80, 90 or 100 point player, and getting rid of Reinhart's 65-75 points, every team in the league wants those...they don't just grow on trees you know. Far more likely you would replace him with a guy getting 45-55 points.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by matter2003

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I'd rather be paying $8 million for Reinhart and his 65-75 points on the top line for the next 5 or 6 years than paying Okposo $6 million to play a 3rd line

There is money for both right now.  It’s not going to be a choice between Reinhart and Okposo this offseason.

The actual choice is:

Okposo at $6M  
OR 
(whoever you could acquire with that $6M) - (whatever it costs to move Okposo)

[nfreeman]

For the record:

- No one is taking KO unless the Sabres either give up a #1 pick or take back a contract that is worse than KO's.

- Therefore, the Sabres are stuck with KO until his contract expires -- which is 3 more seasons after this one.

[Zamboni]

41 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

"We want to improve our team.  I know!  Let's get rid of our second-best points getter."

This makes no sense.

Neither does saying Reinhart skates “slow”. But it doesn’t stop fans from spewing that nonsense. It’s like fans want to only compare the speed of a skater to the fastest one on the team. And call others slow. It’s a very shallow in a vacuum observation. Their opinion is so 2015. If one wants to just take into account straight line point A to point B skating, then Reinhart is average. However, His edge work is good. His positioning and where to be on the ice when he doesn’t have the puck is above average. That’s all part of skating speed. Not just ZOMG he doesn’t blow the doors off like Eichel does so therefore he’s a slow skater. I personally don’t take a posters opinions about Reinhart seriously at all if one of the criticisms is “he’s a slow skater”. I find their viewing very “tunnel vision”. Other criticisms are semi accurate and understandable mostly.

 

[matter2003]

23 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

For the record:

- No one is taking KO unless the Sabres either give up a #1 pick or take back a contract that is worse than KO's.

- Therefore, the Sabres are stuck with KO until his contract expires -- which is 3 more seasons after this one.

Don't be so sure of that...Seattle will have the cap space and can buy him out.  For the right price they can do it.  I mean Toronto moved Clarkson's contract for a guy who had to retire due to injuries, that was the most unmovable contract there was--a guy that would cost a ton of money on the cap that wouldn't even be able to play and they still moved it.

Edited January 15, 2020 by matter2003

[matter2003]

34 minutes ago, Curt said:

There is money for both right now.  It’s not going to be a choice between Reinhart and Okposo this offseason.

The actual choice is:

Okposo at $6M  
OR 
(whoever you could acquire with that $6M) - (whatever it costs to move Okposo)

I see it looks like the Sabres will have $35 million or so next year on the cap but let's not forget they also only have 19 players under contract next year at this time!  Yeah they have a lot of RFA's that will be relatively cheap to resign but Olaffsson likely is going to get a bridge deal and Montour might be getting a bridge deal or long term contract as well...

That $35 million can be gone pretty quick with the number of players they need to resign/sign and that $6 million Okposo is carrying around is a huge detriment moving forward over the next 3 years.

[nfreeman]

21 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Neither does saying Reinhart skates “slow”. But it doesn’t stop fans from spewing that nonsense. It’s like fans want to only compare the speed of a skater to the fastest one on the team. And call others slow. It’s a very shallow in a vacuum observation. Their opinion is so 2015. If one wants to just take into account straight line point A to point B skating, then Reinhart is average. However, His edge work is good. His positioning and where to be on the ice when he doesn’t have the puck is above average. That’s all part of skating speed. Not just ZOMG he doesn’t blow the doors off like Eichel does so therefore he’s a slow skater. I personally don’t take a posters opinions about Reinhart seriously at all if one of the criticisms is “he’s a slow skater”. I find their viewing very “tunnel vision”. Other criticisms are semi accurate and understandable mostly.

 

...or maybe it's just that those who say he's a lousy skater believe, based on their watching of hockey over the years, that relative to most other NHL forwards, Reino is in fact a lousy skater.  Not average or above average, but well below average.

That isn't to say that he's a lousy player, but just that this facet of his game is lousy. 

YMMV on the underlying issue, and I'm not aware of any hard data that's available on this, but denigrating others who disagree with you isn't good or interesting hockey talk.

[LGR4GM]

Olofsson. 

No A's, 1 F. 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

...or maybe it's just that those who say he's a lousy skater believe, based on their watching of hockey over the years, that relative to most other NHL forwards, Reino is in fact a lousy skater.  Not average or above average, but well below average.

That isn't to say that he's a lousy player, but just that this facet of his game is lousy. 

YMMV on the underlying issue, and I'm not aware of any hard data that's available on this, but denigrating others who disagree with you isn't good or interesting hockey talk.

And thinking that a "well below average" skater could hack it on the top line of an NHL team these days is denigrating to the player and isn't interesting hockey talk. 

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

...or maybe it's just that those who say he's a lousy skater believe, based on their watching of hockey over the years, that relative to most other NHL forwards, Reino is in fact a lousy skater.  Not average or above average, but well below average.

That isn't to say that he's a lousy player, but just that this facet of his game is lousy. 

YMMV on the underlying issue, and I'm not aware of any hard data that's available on this, but denigrating others who disagree with you isn't good or interesting hockey talk.

He definitely works on his skating in the offseasons.  It's improved each year.  He now no longer gets knocked off his pins everytime he's hit.  Last year, he'd still get knocked down more often than not but would typically maintain possession of the puck.  He still gets knocked down but it no longer is an every hit occurrence and is far better at that portion of his game.

As for the speed, he'll never be confused with a burner, but it is good enough to be a top line RW.  Early this season, it seemed that had been noticeably better as well but IMHO either that was an illusion or he's regressed as it seems he's about the same speed wise as he was last year.

[Curt]

32 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I see it looks like the Sabres will have $35 million or so next year on the cap but let's not forget they also only have 19 players under contract next year at this time!  Yeah they have a lot of RFA's that will be relatively cheap to resign but Olaffsson likely is going to get a bridge deal and Montour might be getting a bridge deal or long term contract as well...

That $35 million can be gone pretty quick with the number of players they need to resign/sign and that $6 million Okposo is carrying around is a huge detriment moving forward over the next 3 years.

If you work it out, they will have enough to resign anyone they want, and enough left over to add a player making several million ($4-7M).  But how much left over they actually have will also depend upon if they have any penalties incurred from ELC bonuses paid this year.

[pi2000]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

"We want to improve our team.  I know!  Let's get rid of our second-best points getter."

This makes no sense.

What makes no sense is paying a guy 7-8m/yr because he puts up 65pts next to Eichel.

How many points would he have playing with Johansson?  45-50 at most?  That's what I would base his contract on.

Eichel is on pace for 110 points, Reinhart only on pace for just better than half that, playing on the same line just isn't good enough.

IF he's asking for +6m then I'm looking to move him.  A true sniper would put up 50g on Eichels wing... and thats what playoff teams have.  Eichel needs his Mogilny.

Do better, don't settle.