Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[GASabresIUFAN]

FYI Samson is on pace for 64/65 points again this season.  His goals are up but assists down. Maybe that is why I’m not seeing him drive offense as in the past.  He is on pace for 27g and 37a for 64 pts.  

[LGR4GM]

I hope you all get your wish. I really do. Trade Reinhart away and watch that right wing die. There is literally nothing behind him on the right side. No prospects, no ahl guys, no nothing. The only thing in the ballpark of replacing that production might be Cozens who I don't think should be a winger. So go ahead trade Reinhart. You won't get parity in a trade. There isn't a team trading you a 60pt center for him. Call him an offensive passenger all you want but the truth of the matter is that Reinhart produces and seems to produce anywhere in the lineup he gets put. Just like trading ROR, trading Reinhart is stupid if this team actually wants to go anywhere other than to the draft lotto. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

I don't think anyone is saying to move him for the sake of moving him, but you have to give something up of value to get something of value back. Out of the current roster guys the Sabres have, Sam might be the the most expendable that could return something that can help now. I haven't seen anyone saying to get rid of him for whatever you can get. But if he can return a 2nd line Centre, a top 4 defencemen', or a solid upgrade in net, I would consider moving him. If it's for some draft picks or lower prospects, I would hold on to him. Also some of the talk about moving him may be because it would free up cap space for moves that may help now, and if they don't think they can resign him under the cap......

What the actual ***** would we do with ANOTHER top 4 defender? 

Im sorry, how does moving a 60pt player making 3.65mil free up enough cap space to help us now? What are we going to do? Trade for a 3.65mil or less center that is awesome? Find me one. I can literally only name 1 and that is Cirelli in tampa. They ain't trading us for a soon to be RFA Reinhart. 

If you are trading Reinhart the only thing that makes sense is to trade him for an A level prospect about to the hit or in their first NHL year and something else. 

For example, Morgan Frost and Bobby Brink. You also have to be 100% sure that both those guys are top 6 players because if even one of them misses, you screw this entire thing up. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by LGR4GM

[mjd1001]

I really don't have enough to go on to make a decision on this.

It comes down to 2 things for me that I don't have an answer for:

1.  What kind of contract is he going to get to stay with the Sabres

2.  I really REALLY want to see him on a line without Eichel before thinking of trading him..or deciding whether he deserves the contract he is going to get to stay here.

 

I really wasn't a fan of Sam his first couple years in the league...because his production was seemingly always on the PP.  I'm a bit happier now because over the past 1-2 seasons he has done better even strength and proved he can be a decent goal scorer outside of the PP.

Now I would like to see him prove that he can be at least a 50 point guy without Eichel on his line.  Throw him on a line with Skinner and/or Johanson..play 20 full games that way and let see if he can put up at least 5 or 6 goals and 12-15 points that way.  I don't think that is asking for too much.

Edited January 13, 2020 by mjd1001

[nfreeman]

IMHO, Reino is flawed but still a good player.  He's streaky (2 stretches this season of 1 goal in 11 games, which coincided with team losing streaks) and a lousy skater, and there's a fair amount of "empty calories" in his point totals, but he's still quite skilled, he can shoot it and pass it, and he plays a respectable 2-way game.

If he's your 4th- or 5th-best forward, you've probably got a really good offense.  If he's your 2nd- or 3rd- best forward, then you've probably got a crappy offense.

I would only trade him as part of a package to bring in a no-BS star forward if and when one becomes available.

The contract is the tricky part.  He turns 25 at the beginning of next season.  If the Sabres could sign Reino to $5.5MM x 6 years I would do it tomorrow.  But I think the cost will be closer to $7MM x 8 years -- and giving him that contract means that the Sabres are married to Eichel, Skinner, Reino and Dahlin as their top 4 guys, with room for maybe one more big contract.  Given how poorly this team has performed over the last few years, it's hard to be excited about locking in that group to the exclusion of other difference-makers.

There is also a reasonable argument to be made that Olofsson, who is also an RFA after this season, is at least as valuable as Reino is -- and I have a hard time seeing them giving huge contracts to both Reino and VO.

I expect JB to sign Reino to a fat extension this summer, but we'll see.

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

FYI Samson is on pace for 64/65 points again this season.  His goals are up but assists down. Maybe that is why I’m not seeing him drive offense as in the past.  He is on pace for 27g and 37a for 64 pts.  

64 points next to Eichel isn't good enough.   It's things like this which folks find acceptable that are why this team hasn't made the playoffs in forever.

That point production as a top 2 winger is setting the bar too low IMO.

Do better.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

How often does he skate the puck in when the entry is challenged in any remotely meaningful way?  He does usually try to skate it in when challenged with the goalie pulled; other than that, he doesn't skate it in under duress. 

But there is far more to being a useful forward than simply getting the puck into the zone.

He works well with Eichel in that when Reinhart is on the ice Jack gets the opportunity to freelance over pretty much the entire ice.  When he's out with other wingers, he doesn't tend to drive as low to the net as he does when Sam is there.  The only current Sabre (healthy or otherwise) that I'd like to see take that spot in place of Reinhart is Johansson primarily because his passing is nearly as good as Sam's but his skating is significantly better and he has IMHO a better 2 way game.  He'd still allow Jack to fully be Jack and having an entire line with speed on it and Eichel's playmaking combined w/ a finishing LW would be very difficult to defend.  But sadly there isn't another reasonable 2C option on this team.  (Please fix that Mr. Botterill.)

Reinhart's balance has improved significantly this year as he gets knocked down far less frequently than his 1st 4 seasons.  But, though I'd thought his overall speed had improved early in the season; pretty sure it hasn't and that lack of speed makes giving him a shot at 2C problematic.  Especially with the wingers out w/ injury, to even try him at 2C with say Sheary and Asplund or Vesey would be setting him up to fail.

Expecting he'll finish the year w/in a point or 2 of 70 (probably on the good side) and expect his deal to be for $6.5-$7/yr for 6-8 years.  He's a legit 1st liner, but not a top 15 1st liner IMHO.  As such, he'll get paid but with a game that will probably only result in 1 30+ goal season can't see him in Skinner territory (thankfully to a degree; but if he did deserve a Skinner-esque deal next year, we'd probably be looking playoffs this year; thus just being mildly happy about that).

Olofsson's deal this coming off-season is the more interesting one as he'll probably get bridged but am hoping for him to get a 6 year deal.

 

[LGR4GM]

[#freejame]

38 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sam Reinhart plays hockey like a girl

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What the actual ***** would we do with ANOTHER top 4 defender? 

Im sorry, how does moving a 60pt player making 3.65mil free up enough cap space to help us now? What are we going to do? Trade for a 3.65mil or less center that is awesome? Find me one. I can literally only name 1 and that is Cirelli in tampa. They ain't trading us for a soon to be RFA Reinhart. 

If you are trading Reinhart the only thing that makes sense is to trade him for an A level prospect about to the hit or in their first NHL year and something else. 

For example, Morgan Frost and Bobby Brink. You also have to be 100% sure that both those guys are top 6 players because if even one of them misses, you screw this entire thing up. 

He should already be Sabres property. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by #freejame

[inkman]

14 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Sam Reinhart plays hockey like a girl

This isn't an insult 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

IMHO, Reino is flawed but still a good player.  He's streaky (2 stretches this season of 1 goal in 11 games, which coincided with team losing streaks) and a lousy skater, and there's a fair amount of "empty calories" in his point totals, but he's still quite skilled, he can shoot it and pass it, and he plays a respectable 2-way game.

If he's your 4th- or 5th-best forward, you've probably got a really good offense.  If he's your 2nd- or 3rd- best forward, then you've probably got a crappy offense.

I would only trade him as part of a package to bring in a no-BS star forward if and when one becomes available.

The contract is the tricky part.  He turns 25 at the beginning of next season.  If the Sabres could sign Reino to $5.5MM x 6 years I would do it tomorrow.  But I think the cost will be closer to $7MM x 8 years -- and giving him that contract means that the Sabres are married to Eichel, Skinner, Reino and Dahlin as their top 4 guys, with room for maybe one more big contract.  Given how poorly this team has performed over the last few years, it's hard to be excited about locking in that group to the exclusion of other difference-makers.

There is also a reasonable argument to be made that Olofsson, who is also an RFA after this season, is at least as valuable as Reino is -- and I have a hard time seeing them giving huge contracts to both Reino and VO.

I expect JB to sign Reino to a fat extension this summer, but we'll see.

ROR is 2nd on St. Louis with 8g/ 40pts while Sam has 15g/36pts.....yet they are 18pts ahead of us in the standings. This is by far the least of our problems.

[Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I hope you all get your wish. I really do. Trade Reinhart away and watch that right wing die. There is literally nothing behind him on the right side. No prospects, no ahl guys, no nothing. The only thing in the ballpark of replacing that production might be Cozens who I don't think should be a winger. So go ahead trade Reinhart. You won't get parity in a trade. There isn't a team trading you a 60pt center for him. Call him an offensive passenger all you want but the truth of the matter is that Reinhart produces and seems to produce anywhere in the lineup he gets put. Just like trading ROR, trading Reinhart is stupid if this team actually wants to go anywhere other than to the draft lotto. 

I would sign him 7x7.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I hope you all get your wish. I really do. Trade Reinhart away and watch that right wing die. 

Johanson back to RW, sign Toffoli and Kassian, problem solved. 

[#freejame]

48 minutes ago, inkman said:

This isn't an insult 

In the Sandlot universe it is and it gets everyone riled up. Liger’s GIF was from the Sandlot, when Benny walks away from a fight with the beast. I was trying to bring Liger back into the Reinhart fight through another Sandlot reference. I’m sure he understood the reference. I’m sorry you didn’t. 

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, inkman said:

He should be the 2C but that's a different topic. 

Well I read that but none of the coaches seem to agree.  
 

Reinhart looks too slow to be a center.  Can he get back and play a two way game at center? 

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I hope you all get your wish. I really do. Trade Reinhart away and watch that right wing die. There is literally nothing behind him on the right side. No prospects, no ahl guys, no nothing. The only thing in the ballpark of replacing that production might be Cozens who I don't think should be a winger. So go ahead trade Reinhart. You won't get parity in a trade. There isn't a team trading you a 60pt center for him. Call him an offensive passenger all you want but the truth of the matter is that Reinhart produces and seems to produce anywhere in the lineup he gets put. Just like trading ROR, trading Reinhart is stupid if this team actually wants to go anywhere other than to the draft lotto. 

I don’t disagree.   So who goes in a trade for a 2C?  

Edited January 14, 2020 by Pimlach

[erickompositör72]

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Well I read that but none of the coaches seem to agree.  
 

Reinhart looks to slow to be a center.  Can he get back and play a two way game at center? 

I don’t disagree.   So who goes in a trade fir a 2C?  

While I agree with the sentiment, is he slower than Jojo?

[Taro T]

32 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

While I agree with the sentiment, is he slower than Jojo?

Johansson when healthy actually has good wheels.  Reinhart, while not Andreyslug slow, is noticeably slower.

[Curt]

Maybe I am in a minority, but I think Reinhart’s skating is fine now.  He isn’t fast, but his skating has noticeably improved over the years.  He isn’t the slow, weak skater that he was at 19.

Is he a worse skater than ROR, for example?  I don’t believe that he is.

Additionally, he has visibly improved most areas of his game year over year.  His shot for example used to be almost embarrassing for an NHL player.  Now he is at the point where he is burying one timers on the PP.  I think he is the kind of guy who will continue to put in the work to get better year after year.  That’s the kind of guy I want to sign long term.

[Tondas]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

Maybe I am in a minority, but I think Reinhart’s skating is fine now.  He isn’t fast, but his skating has noticeably improved over the years.  He isn’t the slow, weak skater that he was at 19.

Is he a worse skater than ROR, for example?  I don’t believe that he is.

Additionally, he has visibly improved most areas of his game year over year.  His shot for example used to be almost embarrassing for an NHL player.  Now he is at the point where he is burying one timers on the PP.  I think he is the kind of guy who will continue to put in the work to get better year after year.  That’s the kind of guy I want to sign long term.

I agree somewhat.  But at this point, if your name isn't Eichel, Dahlin or Olafsson, I'm listening to offers.

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Tondas said:

I agree somewhat.  But at this point, if your name isn't Eichel, Dahlin or Olafsson, I'm listening to offers.

I mean, sure, but what are you trading him for?  

Picks/prospects?  No

A defenseman?  No

A different winger?  What’s the point?

A Center?  Maybe yes?

[Zamboni]

17 minutes ago, Curt said:

Maybe I am in a minority, but I think Reinhart’s skating is fine now.  He isn’t fast, but his skating has noticeably improved over the years.  He isn’t the slow, weak skater that he was at 19.

Is he a worse skater than ROR, for example?  I don’t believe that he is.

Additionally, he has visibly improved most areas of his game year over year.  His shot for example used to be almost embarrassing for an NHL player.  Now he is at the point where he is burying one timers on the PP.  I think he is the kind of guy who will continue to put in the work to get better year after year.  That’s the kind of guy I want to sign long term.

I agree with this. Some fans just don’t see those things unfortunately. They cling to any negative and dated criticism they can regarding Reinhart.

[Tondas]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

I mean, sure, but what are you trading him for?  

Picks/prospects?  No

A defenseman?  No

A different winger?  What’s the point?

A Center?  Maybe yes?

Curt, I hear you and see your logic.  But after 50 years as a Sabre fan, I'm fatigued.   How much worse can we get?  No scoring, no heart, no grit, no balls.  Blow it up, or don't.  I'll still watch EVERY game.  We're 5 players from being a contender.  So trade Sam or don't.  I don't think that will make a difference in how soon we are a contender.

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Curt, I hear you and see your logic.  But after 50 years as a Sabre fan, I'm fatigued.   How much worse can we get?  No scoring, no heart, no grit, no balls.  Blow it up, or don't.  I'll still watch EVERY game.  We're 5 players from being a contender.  So trade Sam or don't.  I don't think that will make a difference in how soon we are a contender.

I’m sorry that you are sad.

[Tondas]

Just now, Curt said:

I’m sorry that you are sad.

Thanks. Curt.  Not really sad.  More like comfortably numb.