Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Lol. Just lol. This post encapsulates in so many ways why I don't argue with you anymore. We're living in different realities. 

Yep. And others are catching on. So not worth it.

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Wrong, the burden of proof is on you, kind sir, to prove that he's worth $7m.   IMO most of his points are because he plays with Eichel... when he's not with him he's practically invisible.   You talk about him "driving play"... that's some weak nonsense...    Eichel drives play, Sam is just along for the ride.   

His skating is below average, he's slow (by today's standards), his shot is weak and inaccurate, he scores most of his goals picking up trash within a 3ft radius of the net.

Eichel was a +5 last year... Sam?  Try minus 15... how is that even possible playing with Jack.. I don't even know.  

Look, I'm not saying Reinhart is trash.. he's a decent middle 6 winger that deserves about $4-5m/yr.  He has good hands around the net, good at deflections, can make a slick pass here and there, but he's just too helter skelter for my liking.   He's not the guy I'd invest in heavily to be Jack's long term wingman.   Do better.

Ya, I mean if you aren't wanting to or aren't willing to put stock into the abundance of advanced metrics that demonstrably show Sam has had as much of a positive impact on Eichel as vice versa, and that Sam does indeed drive play away from Jack, as well, it's easier to understand your position. Whereas I accept the legitimate first line production we've seen from Sam at face value, putting stock in the underlying data, one who sees his production as largely inflated due to line mates is going to value the asset significantly less than I would, and point to his perceived negative physical traits as support for why his overall production and aptitude may not bear itself out in a different situation. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, I mean if you aren't wanting to or aren't willing to put stock into the abundance of advanced metrics that demonstrably show Sam has had as much of a positive impact on Eichel as vice versa, and that Sam does indeed drive play away from Jack, as well, it's easier to understand your position. Whereas I accept the legitimate first line production we've seen from Sam at face value, putting stock in the underlying data, one who sees his production as largely inflated due to line mates is going to value the asset significantly less than I would, and point to his perceived negative physical traits as support for why his overall production and aptitude may not bear itself out in a different situation. 

You will never convince @pi2000 that his hot takes are not very hot.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You will never convince @pi2000 that his hot takes are not very hot.

I seek more to understand than sway. Much easier degree of difficulty on the former. 

Frankly, the man has the best avatar on this site we need to engage his posts more, not less. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Thorny

[pi2000]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

Ya, I mean if you aren't wanting to or aren't willing to put stock into the abundance of advanced metrics that demonstrably show Sam has had as much of a positive impact on Eichel as vice versa, and that Sam does indeed drive play away from Jack, as well, it's easier to understand your position. Whereas I accept the legitimate first line production we've seen from Sam at face value, putting stock in the underlying data, one who sees his production as largely inflated due to line mates is going to value the asset significantly less than I would, and point to his perceived negative physical traits as support for why his overall production and aptitude may not bear itself out in a different situation. 

I don't need advance metrics to opine on his shortcomings as a hockey player... my experience and my eyes tell me all I need to know.     What I see when I focus on his play is that he's slow, he's soft on pucks, he's not physical, he's near the bottom of the league on face-offs, his shot is below average, he falls down way too often, turns too many pucks over, marginal compete level, doesn't seem to hate losing very much (maybe through no fault of his own).     In fact, last season, I reviewed all his shifst keeping track of his turnovers and how many times he fell down... and it was alarming... Even I didn't expect the results to be as bad as what was observed.

That said he does flash some ability at times, but not nearly often enough that I'd offer him a long term deal north of $6m/yr.     The problem with those types of players is that if they're not scoring, then they're largely a liability on the ice (he was a -15 last season).   I want to see more of the good Reinhart with a consistently high compete level,  not the indifferent disappear for weeks at a time Reinhart.   

Edited October 24, 2020 by pi2000

[Thorner]

He adjusts his helmet a lot too 

[I-90 W]

He’s certainly a valuable player and we did tank for him (he is the first fruits of the tank). I remember when we wanted either of the Sams (Bennit who was a bust). My biggest problem with him has always been the lack of physicality, particularly when our goalie is being screened.

All I’m saying is I can see both sides of this argument; his production would be rather difficult to replace and yet at the same time, he can be infuriating. 

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

He’s certainly a valuable player and we did tank for him (he is the first fruits of the tank). I remember when we wanted either of the Sams (Bennit who was a bust). My biggest problem with him has always been the lack of physicality, particularly when our goalie is being screened.

All I’m saying is I can see both sides of this argument; his production would be rather difficult to replace and yet at the same time, he can be infuriating. 

And yet, there have been several times when he has been the first (and only) Sabre to defend a teammate when called upon.

[I-90 W]

Just now, SwampD said:

And yet, there have been several times when he has been the first (and only) Sabre to defend a teammate when called upon.

Fair. I’m not calling the man a coward or anything like that, just a frustrating aspect of his game for me. Perhaps on other teams it wouldn’t stand out as much. 

[DarthEbriate]

Reinhart is a very good hockey player, a top-six skater on every roster in the league. Elite vision, gets deflection goals, falls down but gets up, and goes to the front of the net. He is not a checker or physical presence although he is the only guy who's consistently stepped in whenever Eichel has gotten hit. He cares. On a playoff caliber team I see him as a Patrick Sharp type (although Sharp is much stronger defensively and will be edgier), but more as that glue guy who can play on any wing and elevate the line.

But now is the time. He's an RFA. This offseason, he'll re-sign for one year and then he's out. To maximize trade value, we need to move him between now and the start of next season so we get the best/most assets possible in return.

[Zamboni]

19 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Reinhart is a very good hockey player, a top-six skater on every roster in the league. Elite vision, gets deflection goals, falls down but gets up, and goes to the front of the net. He is not a checker or physical presence although he is the only guy who's consistently stepped in whenever Eichel has gotten hit. He cares. On a playoff caliber team I see him as a Patrick Sharp type (although Sharp is much stronger defensively and will be edgier), but more as that glue guy who can play on any wing and elevate the line.

But now is the time. He's an RFA. This offseason, he'll re-sign for one year and then he's out. To maximize trade value, we need to move him between now and the start of next season so we get the best/most assets possible in return.

Or… Because he is a very good straw that stirs the drink on any top six and makes his teammates better. And because he’s one of the best if not the best passer on the team. And because almost every year he’s been in the league he’s increased his point totals....  you throw six years at $6.5 million at him and see what his camp says. 
there’s not a doubt in my mind that if he goes to another team he’ll get very close to that number. Give or take $500K. And it wouldn’t be an overpayment.

 

[pi2000]

Last 10 games for Samson...

1g, 1a, -11, 18sog, 1 hit, 1 blocked shots

 

Taylor Hall last 10 games...

0g, 2a, -8, 17sog, 5 hits, 2 blocked shots

 

...but Hall is hot garbage and Reinhart is a stud.   

Edited March 30, 2021 by pi2000

[Broken Ankles]

@sweetlou

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Last 10 games for Samson...

1g, 1a, -11, 18sog, 1 hit, 1 blocked shots

 

Taylor Hall last 10 games...

0g, 2a, -8, 17sog, 5 hits, 2 blocked shots

 

...but Hall is hot garbage and Reinhart is a stud.   

Looks around for ppl calling Reinhart "a stud" 

[LGR4GM]

For the record, if you look at any player on this team in the last 10 games they look like those stats.

Mitts 1a -11

Olofsson 2g 2a -9

Cozens 1g 1a -6

I could go on but you get the point. The team is bad. 

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Looks around for ppl calling Reinhart "a stud" 

Looks around for people who take pi’s opinion on anything Reinhart related seriously ...

[Thorner]

Hall's gaffes have been way more existent, and way more egregious 

[darksabre]

On 11/18/2019 at 12:54 PM, darksabre said:

I don't think Reinhart is getting 7.5 per. His comparable is Horvat, who is a real center who takes faceoffs, at 5.5 per. Sam should get 7, but 7.5 seems high for a 60 point RW. 

I'm sticking with this.

[sweetlou]

Sam has had offensively his best season and has shown he is a good player.  in my mind his trade value has never been more. I want a more physical winger to play with Jack and I believe big move needs to be made this off season.  

Package deal with Columbus who is also looking to shake things up this off season and has picks and prospects.

 

To Columbus:

Reinhart, Skinner($2mil retained) and Boston 2nd rd pick

To Buffalo:

Laine, Jenner and Korpisalo

 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

Sam has had offensively his best season and has shown he is a good player.  in my mind his trade value has never been more. I want a more physical winger to play with Jack and I believe big move needs to be made this off season.  

Package deal with Columbus who is also looking to shake things up this off season and has picks and prospects.

 

To Columbus:

Reinhart, Skinner($2mil retained) and Boston 2nd rd pick

To Buffalo:

Laine, Jenner and Korpisalo

 

I wouldn't trade a toilet bowl floater for Laine. 

How do you figure this gets us more physical or better? Also Skinner has a full NMC. 

[Zamboni]

I love how fans forget how unmovable Skinner is. Sorry Charlie. Jeff Is a Sabre for awhile. Barring something unforeseen. Like waiving his NMC. Or all 30 other GM’s forget his fat bloated crazy cap hit.

[Hoss]

Note on Sam: while he's pacing for his highest goal total (by far), he's not pacing his highest point total.

He's pacing out at 38-23-61. Highest point total was two seasons ago (22-43-65). Make of that what you will.

[PerreaultForever]

Is it possible that he's simply skinnering us? 

If it max's his trade value (and I hope it does) I think it's the moment to trade him. I do not think it's a good idea to long term anybody with max value from the loser core. One Skinner albatross is more than enough. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Hoss said:

Note on Sam: while he's pacing for his highest goal total (by far), he's not pacing his highest point total.

He's pacing out at 38-23-61. Highest point total was two seasons ago (22-43-65). Make of that what you will.

Victor Olofsson is bad at 5v5 and Jeff Skinner can't score. 

As for trading Reinhart, I am not opposed to the idea but you gotta hope they get that right because there's 25g and 60pts off the roster... it is like ROR and if you just get 2 JAGs, a Middling Prospect, and a pick... you're setting your team back again. 

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Is it possible that he's simply skinnering us? 

If it max's his trade value (and I hope it does) I think it's the moment to trade him. I do not think it's a good idea to long term anybody with max value from the loser core. One Skinner albatross is more than enough. 

Doubt it. Younger than Skinner at the time of the deal, a much more well rounded, adaptable player