Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I think you may have misunderstood me… I’m very happy hall is here. I also hope Paul loves it here and wants to sign long-term. I also hope Rinehart wants to stay long term and stays here…

I just disagree with the mindset of we better not sign Reinhart long-term because then he’s going to take away money from Hall so let’s shortchange Reinhart in hopes that we have enough cap space to sign Hall and signs with us next year long-term. I don’t like that mindset. I would rather sign Reinhart long-term… And figure out Hall when we have to figure out Hall.

Fair enough.

And until late last night was adamant a LT deal was the proper course for Reinhart at this time.  But, in light of recent events & uncertainty on what will happen w/ the cap next year am suddenly far less adamant that a LT deal must happen NOW.  As long as the deal isn't 2 or 3 years, am OK w / whatever they work out in the next few weeks.

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Interesting. Why?

My love for Sam should be pretty well-known on here, but Hall is the more talented, more productive player.

But Sam is 5 years younger.

[LabattBlue]

There would only be a handful of cellar dwellars who could take on Sam this year, if the Sabres are interested in moving on from him. Not impossible, but seems to be unlikely.

Keep him for one more year(1 year RFA arb ruling), and then try and move him next off-season.

[bunomatic]

Of the two players Hall has had some injury probs and he is approaching 30. I kind of wish long term was considered 4-5 years. 

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, WildCard said:

He's younger and cheaper; Hall is better but I don't think he blows the door off Sam, long term and for the money I'd rather have Sam

This is completely fair. 

I'm not sure who I'd pick between the two. 

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Then he’ll need to mesh well with Skinner to get that contract.

Not playing with Jack should deflate those point totals a bit - hopefully to the tune of us keeping both. 

I would not be shocked if, after Sam's initial excitement at improving our team settles down, there's a *tinge* of conflict of interest that sets in with him.

Adding Hall will likely cost Sam some cash. 

1 hour ago, bunomatic said:

Of the two players Hall has had some injury probs and he is approaching 30. I kind of wish long term was considered 4-5 years. 

Reinhart's durability forever underrated. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thorny

[#freejame]

33 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Reinhart’s forever underrated. 

Fixed. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This is completely fair. 

I'm not sure who I'd pick between the two. 

Not playing with Jack should deflate those point totals a bit - hopefully to the tune of us keeping both. 

I would not be shocked if, after Sam's initial excitement at improving our team settles down, there's a *tinge* of conflict of interest that sets in with him.

Adding Hall will likely cost Sam some cash. 

Reinhart's durability forever underrated. 

Couldn’t it also work in Sam’s favor, though, if he outperforms Hall?

[Doohicksie]

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Couldn’t it also work in Sam’s favor, though, if he outperforms Hall?

Sam (slightly) outperforming Hall while on the second line could actually be ideal.  Balanced lines, and downward pressure on Hall's AAV for a future contract.  I think we're getting Hall for his last few good years; I wouldn't want to offer him a very long term deal.

[Thorner]

19 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Couldn’t it also work in Sam’s favor, though, if he outperforms Hall?

I'd say so, definitely. 

I just am operating under the assumption it's VO on our new dynamic duo's other wing, so I think it's really unlikely Sam would match Hall. It's points that pay. 

Our PP could be lethal and Sam have a great year too. I'm not trying to suggest this puts a huge cap on Sam, merely that, if it takes him off Jack's line, I'd bet it moves the needle of his overall raw production, as much as Sam DID help Jack, too. 

Maybe he just ends up scoring more. He's really good. And there'll be some overlap regardless of lines. It wouldn't be the worst thing for us, though, contract wise, if his raw totals stayed about where they are, from the second line. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thorny

[IKnowPhysics]

6 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Sam (slightly) outperforming Hall while on the second line could actually be ideal.  Balanced lines, and downward pressure on Hall's AAV for a future contract.  I think we're getting Hall for his last few good years; I wouldn't want to offer him a very long term deal.

Our top six would create a nightmare for opposing matchups to our second line, which is exactly what you want from your depth scoring.

Hall-Eichel-Olofsson

Skinner-Staal-Reinhart

Who do you put your best defenders up against? It's gotta be the HEO Show.  That leaves SSR against the 2nd pair, which is likely favorable to us.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Our top six would create a nightmare for opposing matchups to our second line, which is exactly what you want from your depth scoring.

Hall-Eichel-Olofsson

Skinner-Staal-Reinhart

Who do you put your best defenders up against? It's gotta be the HEO Show.  That leaves SSR against the 2nd pair, which is likely favorable to us.

When we play the Leafs, they'll be matched up against Vesey and Bogosian. 

[Gabrielor]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

When we play the Leafs, they'll be matched up against Vesey and Bogosian. 

I want Eichel to destroy Bogosian.....but I imagine Bogo will go back to constantly-injured Bogo now that his ring is secure.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'd say so, definitely. 

I just am operating under the assumption it's VO on our new dynamic duo's other wing, so I think it's really unlikely Sam would match Hall. It's points that pay. 

Our PP could be lethal and Sam have a great year too. I'm not trying to suggest this puts a huge cap on Sam, merely that, if it takes him off Jack's line, I'd bet it moves the needle of his overall raw production, as much as Sam DID help Jack, too. 

Maybe he just ends up scoring more. He's really good. And there'll be some overlap regardless of lines. It wouldn't be the worst thing for us, though, contract wise, if his raw totals stayed about where they are, from the second line. 

Other than Hall's two big years (which I expect Sam to eventually get) their numbers aren't all that different, points wise.

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Other than Hall's two big years (which I expect Sam to eventually get) their numbers aren't all that different, points wise.

Mostly due to health.  Hall has been a lot more productive when healthy.

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Other than Hall's two big years (which I expect Sam to eventually get) their numbers aren't all that different, points wise.

I guess, but I'm not sure I see Sam getting to 93 points. 

Hall also already had 2 seasons above point a game within his first 5 years, something Sam hasn't done. 

Sam could definitely get to another level, but I'd say there's a significant difference in their rate of production comparing their first 5 years. Hall produced at a .88 points per game pace, (72p per 82) looking at his first 5, and Reinhart at a .65 points per game pace (53p per 82) over the same frame.

Interestingly, Hall notched 263 points, and Sam notched 254. Pretty close, looking at the totals. Sam gets Hall in one big area I keep mentioning - durability. I'ts a pretty good illustration of how valuable that aspect is. Even accounting for a significant rate drop, Sam basically matches him. 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Thorny

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I guess, but I'm not sure I see Sam getting to 93 points. 

Hall also already had 2 seasons above point a game within his first 5 years, something Sam hasn't done. 

Sam could definitely get to another level, but I'd say there's a significant difference in their rate of production comparing their first 5 years. Hall produced at a .88 points per game pace, (72p per 82) looking at his first 5, and Reinhart at a .65 points per game pace (53p per 82) over the same frame.

Interestingly, Hall notched 263 points, and Sam notched 254. Pretty close, looking at the totals. Sam gets Hall in one big area I keep mentioning - durability. I'ts a pretty good illustration of how valuable that aspect is. Even accounting for a significant rate drop, Sam basically matches him. 

 

I’m looking forward to the “close my eyes” fans comments on that one lol 

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'd say so, definitely. 

I just am operating under the assumption it's VO on our new dynamic duo's other wing, so I think it's really unlikely Sam would match Hall. It's points that pay. 

Our PP could be lethal and Sam have a great year too. I'm not trying to suggest this puts a huge cap on Sam, merely that, if it takes him off Jack's line, I'd bet it moves the needle of his overall raw production, as much as Sam DID help Jack, too. 

Maybe he just ends up scoring more. He's really good. And there'll be some overlap regardless of lines. It wouldn't be the worst thing for us, though, contract wise, if his raw totals stayed about where they are, from the second line. 

I’ve always thought Sam could benefit from being more assertive; playing with Jack, he tailors his game to be what Jack needs.

But playing either of them with the Shearys of this world wastes his biggest talents and Jacks.

Playing with Skinner and Staal will force him to handle the puck more, but they are good enough to take advantage.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’ve always thought Sam could benefit from being more assertive; playing with Jack, he tailors his game to be what Jack needs.

But playing either of them with the Shearys of this world wastes his biggest talents and Jacks.

Playing with Skinner and Staal will force him to handle the puck more, but they are good enough to take advantage.

He'll always be pass first, but he just has to remember to keep shooting, too. It's a good thing he's improved it cause Skinner's game is like 45 percent his remarkable nose for rebounds. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

When we play the Leafs, they'll be matched up against Vesey and Bogosian. 

Don't forget Simmonds. They've got 3 Sabres cast offs now. 

It's hilarious to me that the leafs say they are now "harder to play against" with the addition of 3 ex-Sabres from a team that was considered by most as the very opposite of hard to play against. 

Perhaps the pendulum has swung and they are on the way down and we are finally on the way up. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Don't forget Simmonds. They've got 3 Sabres cast offs now. 

It's hilarious to me that the leafs say they are now "harder to play against" with the addition of 3 ex-Sabres from a team that was considered by most as the very opposite of hard to play against. 

Perhaps the pendulum has swung and they are on the way down and we are finally on the way up. 

Or perhaps BOGO wins 2 consecutive cups.

Buy1/get1 free.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Or perhaps BOGO wins 2 consecutive cups.

Buy1/get1 free.

shut yer mouth. Leafs can never win a cup. NEVER!

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

shut yer mouth. Leafs can never win a cup. NEVER!

I knew I'd take some flack for that one but couldn't resist the history lesson.

[dudacek]

Brendan Gallagher just signed for 6 years, $6.5 per.

Sam has more offence, but less grit, more points, but less goals. Sam is younger and will give better value at the end of that deal, but will also get another good contract after this one. Brendan probably won’t.They have very similar value.

Get on the phone with Sam right now and get it done.

[Broken Ankles]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:10 PM, PerreaultForever said:

shut yer mouth. Leafs can never win a cup. NEVER!

 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Brendan Gallagher just signed for 6 years, $6.5 per.

Sam has more offence, but less grit, more points, but less goals. Sam is younger and will give better value at the end of that deal, but will also get another good contract after this one. Brendan probably won’t.They have very similar value.

Get on the phone with Sam right now and get it done.

I think they want the 1 year deal.