Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

20 hours ago, Drunkard said:

60 points on the second line is great, but not if he's earning $9 million or something along those lines. Skinner was a bargain last year with 40 goals for a cap hit of $5.75 million. It won't look nearly as good when they pay him $9 million for 30 goals this year. 

I don't necessarily agree that Skinner should be on the 2nd line.....it's not using his talent at it's best to succeed. Especially now when we need scoring and he's without Johansson.

Reinhart is not gonna get $9M and will be a more reasonable contract whether he plays 1st or 2nd line. It's obvious to most that we need to upgrade the top 9(mostly the middle 6) and that will help make the 2nd line players better, hopefully. A good 2RW would make a big difference I believe.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

11 hours ago, Curt said:

I hear you, and I won’t argue that the team needs to be tougher/scrappier/more determined.  But slightly over the hill guys have a bad habit of becoming completely useless players before you even know it.

Truth is, they need more good players.  The forwards are awful right now, and even when fully healthy, were not good enough.

Are there any Tkachuk's in this years draft that we can get? 

Edited November 20, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Are there any Tkachuk's in this years draft that we can get? 

No but Quinton Byfield is Tkachuk like. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I have a radical 2-step process to improve the team:

1) Keep the good players, such as Reinhart. 

2)Trade the bad players people think are good and trade the young players who are currently bad but have enough upside to return value in a trade. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[Drunkard]

21 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I don't necessarily agree that Skinner should be on the 2nd line.....it's not using his talent at it's best to succeed. Especially now when we need scoring and he's without Johansson.

Reinhart is not gonna get $9M and will be a more reasonable contract whether he plays 1st or 2nd line. It's obvious to most that we need to upgrade the top 9(mostly the middle 6) and that will help make the 2nd line players better, hopefully. A good 2RW would make a big difference I believe.

Skinner should definitely be playing with Eichel. Since we're going to be paying him top dollar for close to another decade he should at least be playing with our best center in order to get as much production out of him as possible. Reinhart may not get $9 million but it's not out of the question given his age and production. He's on pace to score 70 points this season playing with Eichel. Botterill decided to bridge him and Reinhart should benefit from that fact greatly. Another blunder from the so called cap expert.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think it is pretty clear why Samson was bridged.  It's the cap.

Even though I wanted Sam signed long-term and not bridged I can see the reason for it.  Pretty good cap management, IMO.

I am not so sure how much more $ Sam will command now then  when he signed the bridge deal.  I was thinking 6.5 - 7 when he signed the bridge deal for a long-term deal.  Now I am thinking around 7.5 - 8, so about a million more AAV over 8 years.  Not bad and next season the Sabres can afford that with old contracts expiring.

[darksabre]

14 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I have a radical 2-step process to improve the team:

1) Keep the good players, such as Reinhart. 

2)Trade the bad players people think are good and trade the young players who are currently bad but have enough upside to return value in a trade. 

I think we should wait to see if Jimmy Vesey can score a goal.

[...]

27 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I have a radical 2-step process to improve the team:

1) Keep the good players, such as Reinhart. 

2)Trade the bad players people think are good and trade the young players who are currently bad but have enough upside to return value in a trade. 

The Pegulas will never hire you. You're like the Tim Leary of hockey culture.

[miles]

I dont think eichel and Samson should be on the same line, they are both pass first. The problem if they put skinner on with jack, you only have one line that can score. 

 

Although it is better than not scoring at all, like we have been doing

[CallawaySabres]

Anyone is up for discussion besides Eichel, anyone. This whole team HAS to be blown up and if that includes firing Botteril today and the new GM gets rid of Krueger, so be it. The image of the organization can't get any worse so I'm not too worried about what that would look like around the NHL circles.

[LGR4GM]

Trading Eichel or Reinhart is 100% counterproductive to this team being better. This is like trading ROR all over again. 

[miles]

40 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Anyone is up for discussion besides Eichel, anyone. This whole team HAS to be blown up and if that includes firing Botteril today and the new GM gets rid of Krueger, so be it. The image of the organization can't get any worse so I'm not too worried about what that would look like around the NHL circles.

I agree that anybody could be traded, to a point.   eichel and dahlin and skinner could not be traded. I'm not ready to give up on this team. They have shown just a month ago how good they can be. 

They are going through some funk, everyone on the team is. Remember a month ago our goalies were giving up no goals or just 1/2. Now they are giving up 3, 4, 5 etc. 

I dont want to blame the goaltenders, but they have been bad. You have ullmark who gives up so many rebounds, and any shot that he has to go from one side to the other. 

Hutton seemed to randomly start being horrible. he was 2 shutouts in a row to giving up 5 spots. 

 

When a team gets 4 goals and loses, either defensive failures or goaltender failures or both is happening. in the sabres cases, any tiny mistake is going in. Yiu have to have better tending 

Edited November 20, 2019 by miles

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, miles said:

I agree that anybody except eichel and dahlin and skinner could be traded. I'm not ready to give up on this team. They have shown just a month ago how good they can be. 

They are going through some funk, everyone on the team is. Remember a month ago our goalies were giving up no goals or just 1/2. Now they are giving up 3, 4, 5 etc. 

I dont want to blame the goaltenders, but they have been bad. You have ullmark who gives up so many rebounds, and any shot that he has to go from one side to the other. 

Hutton seemed to randomly start being horrible. he was 2 shutouts in a row to giving up 5 spots. 

 

When a team gets 4 goals and loses, either defensive failures or goaltender failures or both is happening. in the sabres cases, any tiny mistake is going in. Yiu have to have better tending 

Ullmark has given up more than 3 goals exactly once in his last 5 starts. Maybe if the forwards did anything, he wouldn't need a shutout to get a win. You are talking about a team that let 41 shots against for the Rangers. Goalies may not be helping but there are bigger problems and it starts with the neutral zone and giving the puck away. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by LGR4GM
spe

[darksabre]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Ullmark has given up more than 3 goals exactly once in his last 5 starts. Maybe if the forwards did anything, he wouldn't need a shutout to get a win. You are talking about a team that let 41 shots against for the Rangers. Goalies may not be helping but their are bigger problems and it starts with the neutral zone and giving the puck away. 

Yup. And there's really nothing wrong with the goalies anyway. There are plenty of teams with worse tandems, and it looks like Ullmark is (finally) making progress with his development. Hopefully he sees more starts soon, he's looking more solid every game.

[Taro T]

13 hours ago, calti said:

ok--that is reasonable...

re: over the hill free agents---i am talking slightly OTH--and of a certain type--the tougher guys

Like Okposo when he was an UFA.  (ducks ? )

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, CallawaySabres said:

Anyone is up for discussion besides Eichel, anyone. This whole team HAS to be blown up and if that includes firing Botteril today and the new GM gets rid of Krueger, so be it. The image of the organization can't get any worse so I'm not too worried about what that would look like around the NHL circles.

Welcome back to the old @CallawaySabres that we all know and love.

(insert whatever thingie is the one that lets you know that I'm kidding here)

[Randall Flagg]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

I think we should wait to see if Jimmy Vesey can score a goal.

The crazy thing about Vesey is I don't even think he's playing particularly poor hockey. It's more of a "what do you do that's interesting/good, and why did we expend assets to actively bring you here?" 

You can tell from a thousand miles away that he's going to be the next guy with quotes to the media about how awful and toxic Buffalo was.

But I don't hate what he does on the ice so much as what our forwards should look like compared to what they do 

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The crazy thing about Vesey is I don't even think he's playing particularly poor hockey. It's more of a "what do you do that's interesting/good, and why did we expend assets to actively bring you here?" 

You can tell from a thousand miles away that he's going to be the next guy with quotes to the media about how awful and toxic Buffalo was.

But I don't hate what he does on the ice so much as what our forwards should look like compared to what they do 

I saw him make a cut to the net from the left circle the other night and he put the most worthless shot into the goalie's pads. He had plenty of time and space to do more, he's just not good enough to recognize it. Might as well be John Scott out there.

[miles]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Ullmark has given up more than 3 goals exactly once in his last 5 starts. Maybe if the forwards did anything, he wouldn't need a shutout to get a win. You are talking about a team that let 41 shots against for the Rangers. Goalies may not be helping but there are bigger problems and it starts with the neutral zone and giving the puck away. 

What about Hutton. Ullmark is not the only tender playing badly. 

I'm not saying they are to blame, defenseman are as well. The whole team actually seemed to fall apart at once.

[Kruppstahl]

36 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I saw him make a cut to the net from the left circle the other night and he put the most worthless shot into the goalie's pads. He had plenty of time and space to do more, he's just not good enough to recognize it. Might as well be John Scott out there.

He does a lot of things really well, but he is also flawed in many ways.  He is not a full service superstar, but he will be paid like one with max term in his next contract.  It's why I would like to see him moved for a solid return, if at all possible.  I don't trust Botterill to get that job done though.

I still can't believe we sat through that horrific tank year to get him.  He is in no way worth 82 games of garbage hockey.  These hockey seasons are long! 

When folks keep saying things like "it's the same old same old and the team needs to be changed up" they are saying "move Reinhart" even if they don't know it.  Risto as well, of course, but now I'm thinking he has no trade value.

 

 

 

 

[Curt]

47 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I saw him make a cut to the net from the left circle the other night and he put the most worthless shot into the goalie's pads. He had plenty of time and space to do more, he's just not good enough to recognize it. Might as well be John Scott out there.

 

9 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

He does a lot of things really well, but he is also flawed in many ways.  He is not a full service superstar, but he will be paid like one with max term in his next contract.  It's why I would like to see him moved for a solid return, if at all possible.  I don't trust Botterill to get that job done though.

I still can't believe we sat through that horrific tank year to get him.  He is in no way worth 82 games of garbage hockey.  These hockey seasons are long! 

When folks keep saying things like "it's the same old same old and the team needs to be changed up" they are saying "move Reinhart" even if they don't know it.  Risto as well, of course, but now I'm thinking he has no trade value.

Dark was talking about Vesey.

Also, Reinhart is not going to get paid like a well rounded superstar player.  He is probably going to get around $7.5-$8M.

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

He does a lot of things really well, but he is also flawed in many ways.  He is not a full service superstar, but he will be paid like one with max term in his next contract.  It's why I would like to see him moved for a solid return, if at all possible.  I don't trust Botterill to get that job done though.

I still can't believe we sat through that horrific tank year to get him.  He is in no way worth 82 games of garbage hockey.  These hockey seasons are long! 

When folks keep saying things like "it's the same old same old and the team needs to be changed up" they are saying "move Reinhart" even if they don't know it.  Risto as well, of course, but now I'm thinking he has no trade value.

 

Moving Reinhart is stupid. He's 1 of 3 forwards who has any consistency producing. He also will not get paid like a superstar. 

35 minutes ago, miles said:

What about Hutton. Ullmark is not the only tender playing badly. 

I'm not saying they are to blame, defenseman are as well. The whole team actually seemed to fall apart at once.

I don't think Hutton is very good. 

[Thorner]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:22 AM, New Scotland (NS) said:

I think it is pretty clear why Samson was bridged.  It's the cap.

Even though I wanted Sam signed long-term and not bridged I can see the reason for it.  Pretty good cap management, IMO.

I am not so sure how much more $ Sam will command now then  when he signed the bridge deal.  I was thinking 6.5 - 7 when he signed the bridge deal for a long-term deal.  Now I am thinking around 7.5 - 8, so about a million more AAV over 8 years.  Not bad and next season the Sabres can afford that with old contracts expiring.

Sam could have been signed LT for the same additional money as it took to bring in Vesey. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, Thorny said:

Sam could have been signed LT for the same additional money as it took to bring in Vesey. 

I understand that, but it gave our GM the extra cap space to bring in all those great players, including Jimmy Vesey.

(insert that eye-roll thingie here)

[Thorner]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:28 AM, LGR4GM said:

Trading Eichel or Reinhart is 100% counterproductive to this team being better. This is like trading ROR all over again. 

I've brought this up before but: I don't want to trade Sam, but it's at least feasible that a "hockey trade" could be made involving Sam. Not likely, but possible, whereas with Eichel it would seemingly be impossible. 

Again, not advocating a trade, but I can't rule out trading him outright. Of course, it couldn't be for a ROR type package or "the concept of" the ROR package. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Thorny