Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[SwampD]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Pretty colors. Thanks. 

 

Yes, it's always someone else. 

Kind of my point. Sam stopping and expecting someone else to do it so he can just wait for a nice Eichel pass or rebound. Nice gig if you can get it.

 

So you want a return to the Sabrepede, then? 

[Weave]

3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

So you want a return to the Sabrepede, then? 

Worst. Horror movie.  Ever.

[Taro T]

21 hours ago, SwampD said:

Not sure what you are getting at here. Sam stopped at the blue line when he saw both Sheary and Joki attacking the guy with the puck. If they get it (which they should have), Sam would have been in the perfect spot to get the puck along the boards to enter the zone.

He absolutely made the right play. They just failed to get the puck.

 

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Pretty colors. Thanks. 

 

Yes, it's always someone else. 

Kind of my point. Sam stopping and expecting someone else to do it so he can just wait for a nice Eichel pass or rebound. Nice gig if you can get it.

 

Come on.  You come across as having played the game or at minimum having watched it long enough to understand the game pretty well.

You know that if somebody else has a player / area covered, by moving into that area / attempting to cover the already covered player, the team has just lost what should've been another viable outlet once they've taken the puck back. 

(Few things in this world more frustrating to a D-man to have all his F's right on top of him with no one up top to clear the puck too.  You seem, in this instance, to be advocating for Reinhart to make the wrong play simply so he'll be "doing something." We uderstand that isn't your intent, but it is the result of what you're advocating.  Players need to trust their teammates.)

And with there already being 2 on the puck, Sam becomes extraneous there, should he go low too.

[SwampD]

8 hours ago, Weave said:

Worst. Horror movie.  Ever.

I still have nightmares.

[inkman]

8 hours ago, Weave said:

Worst. Horror movie.  Ever.

I question many things about the individual responsible for the movie you are referencing. I haven't watched it, nor will I, but that may be the most disturbing thing I've come across on the celluloid.  

Edited February 15, 2020 by inkman

[PerreaultForever]

15 hours ago, SwampD said:

So you want a return to the Sabrepede, then? 

All kidding aside, what I do want is a team that communicates better and plays as a unit, not as individuals. Players who are smart enough, and care enough, to give extra when a team mate is caught out of position, covering for each other at the right moments. Playing as a team, and everybody breaking a sweat every night. 

I honestly think that's what Krueger wants too, just not sure all the Sabres want it as well. 

[SwampD]

10 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

All kidding aside, what I do want is a team that communicates better and plays as a unit, not as individuals. Players who are smart enough, and care enough, to give extra when a team mate is caught out of position, covering for each other at the right moments. Playing as a team, and everybody breaking a sweat every night. 

I honestly think that's what Krueger wants too, just not sure all the Sabres want it as well. 

Then you want Reinhart. He is the teamiest team player we have. Even more that Jack.

Our problem is not Samson. We just need talent upgrades in several places.

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Then you want Reinhart. He is the teamiest team player we have. Even more that Jack.

Some say that, but I don't see it. I want evidence of that to buy into it. 

[SwampD]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

Some say that, but I don't see it. I want evidence of that to buy into it. 

I’m not a stats guy and even I agree with the myriad posts showing how he makes everyone who plays with him better. If you don’t see it, you don’t want to.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I’m not a stats guy and even I agree with the myriad posts showing how he makes everyone who plays with him better. If you don’t see it, you don’t want to.

It's always an apples and oranges argument. It's not the type of thing I'm talking about. There are no stats that measure it.

Stats are all modern BS. Some of them can give you a little info on some things but lots of things don't show up in stats. I still remember that book from way back "how to lie with statistics" and how you can create a direct statistically significant correlation between rape and ice skate sales. Don't ask me to remember the details, it's probably somewhere online but who cares.

Anyway, a hockey example can be found recently. Everybody always going on about offensive zone puck possession times which are a big so what to me but seem to matter to them. The other night Pasternak had a hat trick after 2 periods and it was pointed out he'd had a total of 18 seconds of puck possession time in the O zone. Go figure.

Stats are fun for academics to argue over but when people use them to argue Reinhart is as good as Marchand or his stats match ROR's and stuff like that, it merely proves to me that they are somewhat meaningless.

[pi2000]

22 hours ago, Taro T said:

 

Come on.  You come across as having played the game or at minimum having watched it long enough to understand the game pretty well.

You know that if somebody else has a player / area covered, by moving into that area / attempting to cover the already covered player, the team has just lost what should've been another viable outlet once they've taken the puck back. 

(Few things in this world more frustrating to a D-man to have all his F's right on top of him with no one up top to clear the puck too.  You seem, in this instance, to be advocating for Reinhart to make the wrong play simply so he'll be "doing something." We uderstand that isn't your intent, but it is the result of what you're advocating.  Players need to trust their teammates.)

And with there already being 2 on the puck, Sam becomes extraneous there, should he go low too.

You are partially correct.   Right, there we're others engaged in the battle, however Sam was on the wrong side of the puck and made no attempt to put himself on the right side of the puck... in this case the D side.

 

[triumph_communes]

Whole problem with the team is #2OA center pick can’t play center, so we’re wallowing looking for a 2C

[PerreaultForever]

On 2/15/2020 at 1:50 PM, Taro T said:

 

Come on.  You come across as having played the game or at minimum having watched it long enough to understand the game pretty well.

You know that if somebody else has a player / area covered, by moving into that area / attempting to cover the already covered player, the team has just lost what should've been another viable outlet once they've taken the puck back. 

(Few things in this world more frustrating to a D-man to have all his F's right on top of him with no one up top to clear the puck too.  You seem, in this instance, to be advocating for Reinhart to make the wrong play simply so he'll be "doing something." We uderstand that isn't your intent, but it is the result of what you're advocating.  Players need to trust their teammates.)

And with there already being 2 on the puck, Sam becomes extraneous there, should he go low too.

Not exactly right. The thing is he stopped skating, didn't come back, just parked and waited expecting (or hoping) someone would cut off and intercept and thus possibly feed it to him for a quick counter.  

The correct/better play is not to chase the puck and cover the same area as you suggest I'm advocating (I'm not) but to skate back hard angled to the high middle to cut off any potential movement or pass there and thus allowing the other defender to force the play outside for no play or at worst an easy shot for the  goalie to handle. 

You can argue that is Eichel's area, but if he's caught deeper (as he is the offensive engine and workhorse and thus does get caught deep at times) one of the wingers (in this case Sam)  has to try to cover that area first and then move towards the wall on his own wing when Eichel is back in position. I hope that's clear.

Anyway, Toronto game tonight, no Reinhart complaints so there ☺️

[Doohicksie]

On 2/16/2020 at 2:14 AM, PerreaultForever said:

There are no stats that measure it.

Then maybe it's arbitrary bias.

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Then maybe it's arbitrary bias.

They're called intangibles. There is no stat, for example, that measures character. 

Hockey has never been all about statistics. No sport has. Especially team sports. The only people who think stats are the be all and end all of everything are the people who grew up on video games and fantasy rather than playing the game themselves. 

I've said this to my friends and family. If a team assembled and structured like Toronto (right now) ever wins the Stanley Cup I'm done with hockey, cause then it'll have become a true "game" and is no longer a sport. Personally I don't think it'll ever happen. 

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

They're called intangibles. There is no stat, for example, that measures character. 

Hockey has never been all about statistics. No sport has. Especially team sports. The only people who think stats are the be all and end all of everything are the people who grew up on video games and fantasy rather than playing the game themselves. 

I've said this to my friends and family. If a team assembled and structured like Toronto (right now) ever wins the Stanley Cup I'm done with hockey, cause then it'll have become a true "game" and is no longer a sport. Personally I don't think it'll ever happen. 

I’ve honestly never seen a player live rent free in a fans head more than Reinhart lives in yours ?

You really come off as obsessed with Sam to me. Or is it possessed? I mean like every day, every play, every game, Rinehart literally makes no more or less mistakes than 99% of the players on any NHL team. You are very hypersensitive to him and his every move. I see even a player like Eichel, McDavid,  McKinnon, Ovi, Matthews, Bergeron, O’Reilly, [insert player name here] make mistakes every game. Is it worth mentioning every mistake they make? Meh. No. No it’s not. Just like it’s not worth mentioning all the good plays they make. Yawn.

[sweetlou]

Would you trade Reinhart to NJ for Palmieri, Wood and top ten protected 2020 1st rd pick?

[Curt]

47 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

Would you trade Reinhart to NJ for Palmieri, Wood and top ten protected 2020 1st rd pick?

No.  Wood is a 3rd liner, Palmeri has only one more year on his contract, then is UFA.

[Doohicksie]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

They're called intangibles. There is no stat, for example, that measures character. 

Hockey has never been all about statistics. No sport has. Especially team sports. The only people who think stats are the be all and end all of everything are the people who grew up on video games and fantasy rather than playing the game themselves. 

I've said this to my friends and family. If a team assembled and structured like Toronto (right now) ever wins the Stanley Cup I'm done with hockey, cause then it'll have become a true "game" and is no longer a sport. Personally I don't think it'll ever happen. 

You have a vague impression with no backup so you call it intangibles.  That's some heavy duty BS.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Doohickie

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Would you trade Reinhart to NJ for Palmieri, Wood and top ten protected 2020 1st rd pick?

 

1 hour ago, Curt said:

No.  Wood is a 3rd liner, Palmeri has only one more year on his contract, then is UFA.

Plus, a "top 10 protected 1st round pick" coming from Joisey is also known as a 2021 1st round pick.  (Unless he was talking about the Arizona pick.)

[sweetlou]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

No.  Wood is a 3rd liner, Palmeri has only one more year on his contract, then is UFA.

But you get the 1st rd pick as well.

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

 

Plus, a "top 10 protected 1st round pick" coming from Joisey is also known as a 2021 1st round pick.  (Unless he was talking about the Arizona pick.)

Arizona or Vancouver pick they just picked up in trade from Tampa.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, sweetlou said:

But you get the 1st rd pick as well.

I saw, but it’s a no for me dawg.

[PerreaultForever]

22 hours ago, Zamboni said:

I’ve honestly never seen a player live rent free in a fans head more than Reinhart lives in yours ?

You really come off as obsessed with Sam to me. Or is it possessed? I mean like every day, every play, every game, Rinehart literally makes no more or less mistakes than 99% of the players on any NHL team. You are very hypersensitive to him and his every move. I see even a player like Eichel, McDavid,  McKinnon, Ovi, Matthews, Bergeron, O’Reilly, [insert player name here] make mistakes every game. Is it worth mentioning every mistake they make? Meh. No. No it’s not. Just like it’s not worth mentioning all the good plays they make. Yawn.

Reason is, it's a current topic. Reason is he's up for a (big) contract. Reason is if we sign him to a huge long term payday like we already did with Skinner we are not only screwed short term, we are screwed for the next decade. 

The bar is so damn low here, the rest of the talent on the team so bad, that you and others see him as a valuable commodity. He's only that in a relative sense to what else is here, and not relative to the rosters of true cup contenders. If, for example, the Bruins had drafted him, he'd never have made it through more than 2 seasons before being shipped out of town unless he radically changed that inconsistent work ethic (and lack thereof). 

If your core players do not set the tone, the rest of the team will never follow. I will say it again, Reinhart can be on a team , but if Reinhart is part of your core, you will never win. 

[PerreaultForever]

18 hours ago, Doohickie said:

You have a vague impression with no backup so you call it intangibles.  That's some heavy duty BS.

You can claim that, but you'd be wrong. Can I ask you something? Did you ever play hockey? Ever play with a Sabre? I have. I took Ron Roscoe's place on our high school hockey team when he moved up in junior and became high school ineligible. Remember Ron Roscoe? Drafted in 1976. Didn't play much. Tough as nails though. Also played a few recreation league games with Dave Andreychuk before he was drafted as I worked with his father at Stelco. (Used that long reach and made me look like the hack I was lol)

So, I'm not going to be arrogant and claim greater hockey knowledge than you or anything, we're all armchair fans and we all have opinions, but don't tell me I don't know what intangibles are or that my impressions of player's characters are BS just cause you don't like them. I know enough.

 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You can claim that, but you'd be wrong. Can I ask you something? Did you ever play hockey? Ever play with a Sabre? I have. I took Ron Roscoe's place on our high school hockey team when he moved up in junior and became high school ineligible. Remember Ron Roscoe? Drafted in 1976. Didn't play much. Tough as nails though. Also played a few recreation league games with Dave Andreychuk before he was drafted as I worked with his father at Stelco. (Used that long reach and made me look like the hack I was lol)

So, I'm not going to be arrogant and claim greater hockey knowledge than you or anything, we're all armchair fans and we all have opinions, but don't tell me I don't know what intangibles are or that my impressions of player's characters are BS just cause you don't like them. I know enough.

 

You let me know when you have had a lengthy conversation about hockey or played with Reinhart and then you can convince me you have any ***** clue what his character is.