Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[MODO Hockey]

4 hours ago, sabremike said:

Look at what we traded the Conn Smythe winner for two offseasons ago and get back to me. We have a GM who constantly gets conned and suckered, a Sam trade will be no different. And the idea that Sam is the problem with this team is complete lunacy as well, just like the idea that ROR was the problem with this team.

"Those who cannot remember the past..."

Trading Sam would most likely never give anything better in return, no matter who makes the deal. Sam is mediocre at best imo. 
With ROR "lost my love for the game" interview it kind of speaks for it self, he was obviously one of the problems we had those seasons. 

We had Jack, we had ROR, we had Kane, we had Reinhart and we ended up dead last. And i could not care less if ROR got cs, it was St louis that gave him that. 

It's all about the team effort in the end and having the key pieces for it and eventually a coach that can get it all together and voila, you got your self a competing team. We've had soft coaches season after season and to turn this ghost of a team around it probably takes more than a really commited coach but looking at whats lurking in the dark season after season, the ghost of "We are a tank team" is there no matter how much the team and supporters try, and to overcome that we need something extraordinary. One or two players wont make that difference. 


 

[#freejame]

Three or four years ago I understood where people were coming from when they didn’t like Sam Reinhart, but at this point I’m at a complete loss. It’s like some of you enjoy being bad and are looking to keep it that way. As someone alleged up-thread, players come to Buffalo and play worse than before and then leave and get better. What happens when the same happens with Sam? Oh wait, I know that answer:

”he won’t get better because he relies on Eichel and is complete trash.”

 

[#freejame]

4 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

Trading Sam would most likely never give anything better in return, no matter who makes the deal. Sam is mediocre at best imo. 
With ROR "lost my love for the game" interview it kind of speaks for it self, he was obviously one of the problems we had those seasons. 

We had Jack, we had ROR, we had Kane, we had Reinhart and we ended up dead last. And i could not care less if ROR got cs, it was St louis that gave him that. 

In what world is Sam Reinhart mediocre at best? He’s one of the best RWs in the league and on the verge of being a 70 point player at 24 years old. 
 

RORs interview made complete sense at the time and still continues to make complete sense. He was our best player year in and year out when he was here and had nothing around him for help. Of course losing non-stop while you’re doing everything you can to prevent it is going to wear on a person. He was candid. Hundreds of thousands of hard workers throughout the globe feel this way about their job then move companies and poof everything is better. And St. Louis didn’t give O’Reilly the Conn Smythe, he earned it by being a fantastic player during a Stanley Cup run. 

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Reinhart is bezerko ROR.   ROR did everything very well, defense, battles, 50/50's, face-offs, PK, PP, pass, score, etc.... a true jack-of-all-trades.   Reinhart does maybe 3 things well, he can score from in tight, has good vision and anticipation in the offensive zone when given time and space, and I can't really think of a third thing but maybe somebody else can.  Plays well with Eichel, putting up middling 1st line RW stats?  Is that good enough?    Or would the team be better off with a more well-rounded player who maybe doesn't have the same point production with Eichel?   Tough call.

Again then, how does this trade work. You can find a Center that is better but teams value centers more or you can trade for a winger. The center option means you need to find a team with an abundance of centers that whats to move one for cap reasons or some other factor, seems unlikely but maybe. Now a team probably isn't going to trade their 65pt RW for our 65pt RW because that makes no sense. Instead you will get either some package with futures (prospects/picks) or you are trading for a Left Wing which we just don't need. Trading Reinhart is just illogical from a team building standpoint.

No one has yet to come up with a reasonable player we might be able to trade Sam for. I am not talking hey this is going to happen but at least toss out a comparable player that could be moved for him. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by LGR4GM

[MODO Hockey]

2 hours ago, #freejame said:

In what world is Sam Reinhart mediocre at best? He’s one of the best RWs in the league and on the verge of being a 70 point player at 24 years old. 
 

RORs interview made complete sense at the time and still continues to make complete sense. He was our best player year in and year out when he was here and had nothing around him for help. Of course losing non-stop while you’re doing everything you can to prevent it is going to wear on a person. He was candid. Hundreds of thousands of hard workers throughout the globe feel this way about their job then move companies and poof everything is better. And St. Louis didn’t give O’Reilly the Conn Smythe, he earned it by being a fantastic player during a Stanley Cup run. 

Well,

In my world he is, and im not alone that is for sure.

If you think Sam is one of the best right wingers in the league then i can say we obviously look at hockey completly different. But hey, were all different and that is a good thing. 

Yes people disagree with their management, their titles, their work and what so ever, but sometimes you just dont fit. If it is like your saying, then every single player loses their love for the game every season if they end up last or whatever and that is just not true, sometimes you just dont fit and your better else were, just like your saying but that doesnt mean ROR was a good fit for Buffalo no matter what, he should know better earning millions of dollars each year, he is a elite professional hockey player and should by now know that sometimes you just fail no matter how hard you try, obviously he didnt and that just proves to me that he is a selfish little b****.

But again, if you dont have the right tools then your off with a bad result and that is Buffalo Sabres in a nut shell.  

Regarding ROR and him earning Conn Smythe by beeing a fantastic player during a cup run, that is correct and i dont think anyone would disagree on that point, but to be able to recivce such award you also need a team to be fantastic, a fantastic coach and organisation that can provide you with a chance to actually achive that, and that was my point. Everything needs to click.  Who would've thought St Louis would even win the cup after 25 games, they were dead last. After half way they were 28th in the league, and eventually they won the cup - that is something.

 

 

[#freejame]

26 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

Well,

In my world he is, and im not alone that is for sure.

If you think Sam is one of the best right wingers in the league then i can say we obviously look at hockey completly different. But hey, were all different and that is a good thing. 

Yes people disagree with their management, their titles, their work and what so ever, but sometimes you just dont fit. If it is like your saying, then every single player loses their love for the game every season if they end up last or whatever and that is just not true, sometimes you just dont fit and your better else were, just like your saying but that doesnt mean ROR was a good fit for Buffalo no matter what, he should know better earning millions of dollars each year, he is a elite professional hockey player and should by now know that sometimes you just fail no matter how hard you try, obviously he didnt and that just proves to me that he is a selfish little b****.

But again, if you dont have the right tools then your off with a bad result and that is Buffalo Sabres in a nut shell.  

Regarding ROR and him earning Conn Smythe by beeing a fantastic player during a cup run, that is correct and i dont think anyone would disagree on that point, but to be able to recivce such award you also need a team to be fantastic, a fantastic coach and organisation that can provide you with a chance to actually achive that, and that was my point. Everything needs to click.  Who would've thought St Louis would even win the cup after 25 games, they were dead last. After half way they were 28th in the league, and eventually they won the cup - that is something.

 

 

Name 30 RWs better than Sam. Or even 15. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Name 30 RWs better than Sam. Or even 15. 

You don't get it? Sam is average. Any average player would put up Sam's numbers playing with Jack.

It doesn't matter what Jimmy Vesey and Conor Sheary have done with Jack compared to what they did elsewhere.

Olofsson and Skinner? They're good players, legit top-six wingers on any team. Why do you ask?

Edited February 4, 2020 by dudacek

[MODO Hockey]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

Name 30 RWs better than Sam. Or even 15. 

Mitchell Marner
Phil Kessel
David Pastrnak
Elias Lindholm
Patrick Kane
Alexander Radulov
Filip Forsberg
Mikko Rantanen
Nikita Kucherov
Vladimir Tarasenko
William Nylander
Patrik Laine
Viktor Olofsson
Jakub Voracek
Teuvo Teräväinen

These players are significant better than Sam. Put any of them next to Jack and voila. 

Calling Sam one of the best right wingers in this league is ridiculous.

Edited February 4, 2020 by MODO Hockey

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

Mitchell Marner
Phil Kessel
David Pastrnak
Elias Lindholm
Vladimir Tarasenko
Patrick Kane
Alexander Radulov
Filip Forsberg
Mikko Rantanen
Nikita Kucherov
Elias Lindholm
Vladimir Tarasenko
William Nylander
Patrik Laine
Viktor Olofsson

These players are significant better than Sam. Put any of them next to Jack and voila. 

Calling Sam one of the best right wingers in this league is rediculous.

BOTH Lindholm and BOTH Tarasenko brothers are better than Reinhart?  Sure, the younger Elias and the older Vladimir are better than him, but wouldn't want to have money on the other 2. ?

[MODO Hockey]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

BOTH Lindholm and BOTH Tarasenko brothers are better than Reinhart?  Sure, the younger Elias and the older Vladimir are better than him, but wouldn't want to have money on the other 2. ?

YES! 

Imagine if copy paste would work IRL, i would copy paste Buffalo Sabres to heaven with good players.
But i blame the copy paste though, didnt want to spell any names wrong :]

Edited February 4, 2020 by MODO Hockey

[SwampD]

You’d have to really convince me that about half of those guys are better than Sam.

About the same? Sure. But not better.

[MODO Hockey]

Just now, SwampD said:

You’d have to really convince me that about half of those guys are better than Sam.

About the same? Sure. But not better.

Not only points matter eventhough Sam isnt even close to half of them, i can break it down in analytics sure but just by looking at them is enough for me. 
 

[dudacek]

I think there is a difference in “players I like better” and “players who are clearly better.”

Personally, I’d take 8 or 9 of Modo’s guys over Sam, but after that the line gets blurry.

Is Lindholm better? Why? Olofsson? Seriously? Radulov and Kessel sure arent what they used to be. Reinhart’s outscoring them and has also outproduced Forsberg and Nylander over the past two years.

Sam is pretty clearly a 1st line (top 31) RW.

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

You’d have to really convince me that about half of those guys are better than Sam.

About the same? Sure. But not better.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by dudacek

[MODO Hockey]

Just now, dudacek said:

I think there is a difference in “players I like better” and “players who are clearly better.”

Personally, I’d take 8 or 9 of Modo’s guys over Sam, but after that the line gets blurry.

Is Lindholm better? Why? Olofsson? Seriously? Radulov and Kessel sure arent what they used to be. Reinhart’s outscoring them and has also outproduced Forsberg and Nylander over the past two years.

 

 

Lindholm is just better overall, Olofsson does way less misstakes and has already a record broken in his first season, that should be enough for you. Radulov and Kessel are also 10 years older than Sam and Phil is a fatty aswell, no but seriously they still are better. Outscoring them after 50 games ish ok, but what you are looking at are points only as i can see it. Correct me if im wrong?

I would gladly stand down if Sam proved me wrong, but im almost certain he never will.
 

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

Lindholm is just better overall, Olofsson does way less misstakes and has already a record broken in his first season, that should be enough for you. Radulov and Kessel are also 10 years older than Sam and Phil is a fatty aswell, no but seriously they still are better. Outscoring them after 50 games ish ok, but what you are looking at are points only as i can see it. Correct me if im wrong?

I would gladly stand down if Sam proved me wrong, but im almost certain he never will.
 

VO is older than Sam, produced similar numbers on the same line (fattened by the PP), is around the puck less, makes fewer plays in traffic and has played half a season...

It’s not about just points, although I think production is the most important part. I am a huge fan of Sam’s ability to make efficient hockey plays with and without the puck and use his teammates. He’s unselfish disciplined and cold-blooded. He gets the puck and himself to the right places at the right times; he’s the type of guy offensive players want to play with because he connects.

I’ve got no problem with someone preferring Lindholm to Sam, just with the idea it’s a slam dunk. I’ve got a problem with people saying he’s not a 1st line RW.

Edited February 4, 2020 by dudacek

[MODO Hockey]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

VO is older than Sam, produced similar numbers on the same line (fattened by the PP), is around the puck less, makes fewer plays in traffic and has played half a season...

VO is 5 months older than Sam, could you explain wtf you litterly mean with this? ?
Sam has 5 full seasons in NHL and still cant thrive more than about 25 goals per season, he is just a mediocre first line winger in my opinion. 

Edit: When it comes to "one of the best right wingers in the league", reading that line above might seam strongly rtarded, it would actually be good if he was playing right wing ón a second line and we had a producing 1st line aswell, see the bigger perspective. (tag @shrader) ?

Edited February 4, 2020 by MODO Hockey

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

VO is 5 months older than Sam, could you explain wtf you litterly mean with this? ?

That Sam is a much more proven player.

Mediocre 1st line winger is a fair description of him.

[MODO Hockey]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

That Sam is a much more proven player.

I still dont understand why 5 months age difference would matter? might be that Victor got rid of his dipers earlier than Sam but other than that?
 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That Sam is a much more proven player.

Mediocre 1st line winger is a fair description of him.

‘Mediocre” has to many negative connotations.  I think solid is a better word choice.  He is in the middle of the pack of top producing RWs but much closer to the top 3rd then bottom 3rd.  This makes him solid at worst very good at best.  

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

I still dont understand why 5 months age difference would matter? might be that Victor got rid of his dipers earlier than Sam but other than that?
 

It doesn’t. I worded it poorly.

Basically, I was trying to point out the fact victor is just a rookie doesn’t matter because he’s not a kid.

I should have just said they were the same age.

[MODO Hockey]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

It doesn’t. I worded it poorly.

Basically, I was trying to point out the fact victor is just a rookie doesn’t matter because he’s not a kid.

I should have just said they were the same age.

I see, ?

[Randall Flagg]

There is no doubt in my mind that when the Sabres are actually playing in important spring games again, we're going to notice that Sam is our most "clutch" player. 

Random thought of the day. 

 

[pi2000]

I watch a lot of NHL hockey, many teams out West here.   

I can say with extreme confidence, Sam Reinhart is NOT one of the best RW in the league.

However, Jack Eichel IS one of the best centers in the league and he does have some chemistry with Sam, but watching other top lines around the league, Sam just leaves me wanting more.    

The number of times he turns the puck over, loses battles, falls down... you just don't see that from other top RWs.    

I'd love him as a second line RW, he'd be near the top of that list across the league.

Does a top second line RW deserve $7-8m/yr?    I think that's a bit steep. 

 

 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

Sam has 5 full seasons in NHL and still cant thrive more than about 25 goals per season, he is just a mediocre first line winger in my opinion. 

A mediocre first liner is a pretty good player.  So you are saying that Sam is somewhere around the 10-20th best RW in the league?  That’s pretty good, and something that I can agree with.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

Lindholm is just better overall, Olofsson does way less misstakes and has already a record broken in his first season, that should be enough for you. Radulov and Kessel are also 10 years older than Sam and Phil is a fatty aswell, no but seriously they still are better. Outscoring them after 50 games ish ok, but what you are looking at are points only as i can see it. Correct me if im wrong?

I would gladly stand down if Sam proved me wrong, but im almost certain he never will.
 

His first season in the NHL and he's older than Sam....no saying that one is better than the other, just not one of the finer selling points.

Just for your info.....the 3 players who were tied with their first six PPG

1) Craig Norwich...was also 24yrs old at the time and only had 10g that year with 7 on the PP. Short career of 104 games and a total of 17g. I would say it was more of an accomplishment for him.

2) Jeff Norton...@ age 22yrs took parts of 3 seasons just to score his first 6g (all on PP) in 134 gms.

3) Sylvain Turgeon....most of us old timers likely remember him. He accomplished the same (1st 6g on PP) at age 18yrs.

But an NHL record is still a record and congrats to VO and I certainly love watching play and hope for many more goals from him The fact he has become an NHL player after being selected in the 7th rd is quite an accomplishment in and of itself.