Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[Kruppstahl]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Skinner is already overpaid. If we pay Sam what some of you suggest we will never be able to build a winner. 

and we've already seen what he does on a line without Jack - nothing. 

Praise Jesus!  Someone with some sense around here.

I love how this team is hot garbage for a bunch of years now, under a variety of coaches, with only a handful of key pieces remaining constant, and folks want to continue to keep those key pieces in place!  

To all of you, I say:

[Curt]

Buffalo needs more elite players.  We all want more elite players on the team.  Reinhart isn’t elite.  We should ditch Reinhart because he isn’t elite.  

Don’t we all want better players on the team?  Raise your standards guys!  How do you expect the team to make the playoffs with good players like Sam Reinhart on the team, when what we NEED is elite players?

I think I’m finally getting what @pi2000 is trying to say.  

DUW BUDDAR

[GASabresIUFAN]

44 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

If this is true then where are all the assists?   With those skills he should have 60 assists on that line, he's nowhere close to that.

He's averaging 0.3 assists per game in his career.

Not good enough...  DUE BATTER

Incorrect.  142 assists in 380 games is .374.  That's much closer to .4 per game vs your state .3.

However last season he had 43 in 82 games or .524 and this season he has 24 in 49 games or .490.  Nice try.

For those scoring at home that 67 assists in his last 131 games or .511 not bad at all.  

His 24 assists are tied for 42nd among all forwards (please remember there are 93 top line forwards.) 

His 43 assists last season 38th among all forwards.  His 67 assists for the last two seasons to date are tied for 37th overall with Patrice Bergeron, Ryan Johansen, and Elias Lindhom and ahead of Koipitar, Tavares, Larkin, Couture, Domi, and Matt Tkachuk among others.

Sorry, Pi.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

Praise Jesus!  Someone with some sense around here.

I love how this team is hot garbage for a bunch of years now, under a variety of coaches, with only a handful of key pieces remaining constant, and folks want to continue to keep those key pieces in place!  

To all of you, I say:

Those your words or your dad's? ?

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Incorrect.  142 assists in 380 games is .374.  That's much closer to .4 per game vs your state .3.

However last season he had 43 in 82 games or .524 and this season he has 24 in 49 games or .490.  Nice try.

For those scoring at home that 67 assists in his last 131 games or .511 not bad at all.  

His 24 assists are tied for 42nd among all forwards (please remember there are 93 top line forwards.) 

His 43 assists last season 38th among all forwards.  His 67 assists for the last two seasons to date are tied for 37th overall with Patrice Bergeron, Ryan Johansen, and Elias Lindhom and ahead of Koipitar, Tavares, Larkin, Couture, Domi, and Matt Tkachuk among others.

Sorry, Pi.  

So you're going to settle for a middle of the road 1st line winger because he's tied for 42nd in assists?  Thats THE guy you want to pair with Eichel for the next decade?

Sorry...

Not

Good

Enough

do. better.

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Buffalo needs more elite players.  We all want more elite players on the team.  Reinhart isn’t elite.  We should ditch Reinhart because he isn’t elite.  

Don’t we all want better players on the team?  Raise your standards guys!  How do you expect the team to make the playoffs with good players like Sam Reinhart on the team, when what we NEED is elite players?

I think I’m finally getting what @pi2000 is trying to say.  

DUW BUDDAR

I didn't say to get rid of him.  He's a good good player.  Good.  Player.

He's a second line winger on a Cup contender. 

Pay him accordingly and I'm good with it. 

To maximize Eichel's potential he needs to play with finishers, not setup guys.  Reinhart isn't a finisher. 

Skinner is. 

Olofsson is.   

That's about it, they need more finishers, we all know that.

Dew Batter.

Edited January 22, 2020 by pi2000
Did better.

[Taro T]

Just now, pi2000 said:

So you're going to settle for a middle of the road 1st line winger because he's tied for 42nd in assists?  Thats THE guy you want to pair with Eichel for the next decade?

Sorry...

Not

Good

Enough

do. better.

No.  We want him running on the 2nd line with Skinner and the 2C they bring in so that Olofsson and Cozens can run on Eichel's line.  Then Mittelstadt and Thompson can be 2/3's of a Vanek - Roy - Afinogenov line and then Girgensons - Larsson - Lazar fit the bill until Pekar - Asplund - Davidsson replace all 3. 

As long as he doesn't get a NMC for the last 3 years, give him an 8 year deal hopefully towards $7/yr but after Skinner's deal it'll be closer to $8/yr.

We're close to good times; we're just not quite there yet.

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I didn't say to get rid of him.  He's a good good player.  Good.  Player.

He's a second line winger on a Cup contender. 

Pay him accordingly and I'm good with it. 

To maximize Eichel's potential he needs to play with finishers, not setup guys.  Reinhart isn't a finisher. 

Skinner is. 

Olofsson is.   

That's about it, they need more finishers, we all know that.

Dew Batter.

If all he plays with are finishers then he has to get the puck himself.  There's a reason elite lines normally have a guy that's good along the boards as a specialty.  Reinhart works VERY well with Eichel.  (He did work better with O'Reilly.  That ship has sailed.)  Until Cozens is ready to be Eichel's Renberg keep Sam there.  And if Cozens is the beast at 2C people expect, keep Sam tied to Jack even after Dylan shows up.  (Have my own doubts, but hopefully he is that beast.)

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No.  We want him running on the 2nd line with Skinner and the 2C they bring in so that Olofsson and Cozens can run on Eichel's line.  Then Mittelstadt and Thompson can be 2/3's of a Vanek - Roy - Afinogenov line and then Girgensons - Larsson - Lazar fit the bill until Pekar - Asplund - Davidsson replace all 3. 

As long as he doesn't get a NMC for the last 3 years, give him an 8 year deal hopefully towards $7/yr but after Skinner's deal it'll be closer to $8/yr.

We're close to good times; we're just not quite there yet.

Not only are you deluded about Reinhart you still think Thompson will be a top player???? There is over valuing your players and then there is this................

Sam Reinhart reminds me of Jacques Richard from way way back. Super talented, great skills, but soft as butter, an underachiever, and rarely seems to have his heart in it. Not the sort of player you build a winning culture around. 

As was mentioned further above, if this "core" was any good why have we sucked for so long and still underachieve? Trade him if we can, which I doubt. 

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not only are you deluded about Reinhart you still think Thompson will be a top player???? There is over valuing your players and then there is this................

Sam Reinhart reminds me of Jacques Richard from way way back. Super talented, great skills, but soft as butter, an underachiever, and rarely seems to have his heart in it. Not the sort of player you build a winning culture around. 

As was mentioned further above, if this "core" was any good why have we sucked for so long and still underachieve? Trade him if we can, which I doubt. 

SERIOUSLY?!?!? Pencilling Thompson on the 3rd scoring line is calling him a "top player?"  Last we checked, guys getting 14 minutes (which is what he gets in that scenario, assuming he recovers from the destroyed shoulder) or less weren't "top players."

And Sam Reinhart reminds you of the ####ing lush that was Jacques Richard?

AND you don't expect that Sammy's tradeable?  

We got THREE "hot takes" (well 4 actually if you truly believe Reinhart can't play 2nd line, but pretty sure that was just hyperbole, so we'll let that 1 slide) in a single post.  We are truly honored.  Thank you for your service. ?

Edited January 22, 2020 by Taro T

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not only are you deluded about Reinhart you still think Thompson will be a top player???? There is over valuing your players and then there is this................

Sam Reinhart reminds me of Jacques Richard from way way back. Super talented, great skills, but soft as butter, an underachiever, and rarely seems to have his heart in it. Not the sort of player you build a winning culture around. 

As was mentioned further above, if this "core" was any good why have we sucked for so long and still underachieve? Trade him if we can, which I doubt. 

This is what I am talking about when I wonder what Reinhart did to you.

Edited January 22, 2020 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

SERIOUSLY?!?!? Pencilling Thompson on the 3rd scoring line is calling him a "top player?"  Last we checked, guys getting 14 minutes (which is what he gets in that scenario, assuming he recovers from the destroyed shoulder) or less weren't "top players."

And Sam Reinhart reminds you of the ####ing lush that was Jacques Richard?

AND you don't expect that Sammy's tradeable?  

We got THREE "hot takes" (well 4 actually if you truly believe Reinhart can't play 2nd line, but pretty sure that was just hyperbole, so we'll let that 1 slide) in a single post.  We are truly honored.  Thank you for your service. ?

and thank you for your kind words and tone.

define top player however you want to, he's not an NHL talent. He's Jody Gage at best. Not the future in any way, that was my point but if you'd rather debate what top player means have at it.Waiting for that giraffe of a man to develop is like waiting for Godot. Spoiler, he isn't going to arrive.

whether Jacques was a lush or not I can't speak to. Probably. Lots of guys were in those days. His lack of commitment and effort despite his given hockey gifts was the point. Sam is a slacker.

tradeable for any sort of decent return fans would be happy with. I kind of thought that one was obvious but spelled out now.

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This is what I am talking about when I wonder what Reinhart did to you.

Got millions for being a slacker and assuring my team stays out of the playoffs. 

I don't know what you guys watch, but every game I see Sam coast, fake it, and go through the motions, turn the puck over and just generally fail numerous times. I sometimes feel it would be worth it to go through a recorded game and note the time and description of every bad play and list them, but I know that after spending hours on that effort you'd still make excuses and shoot it down so it'd be a waste of time. 

What Eichel needs on his wing is a Mike Foligno, and Sam is the farthest thing from that you can get. 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

and thank you for your kind words and tone.

define top player however you want to, he's not an NHL talent. He's Jody Gage at best. Not the future in any way, that was my point but if you'd rather debate what top player means have at it.Waiting for that giraffe of a man to develop is like waiting for Godot. Spoiler, he isn't going to arrive.

whether Jacques was a lush or not I can't speak to. Probably. Lots of guys were in those days. His lack of commitment and effort despite his given hockey gifts was the point. Sam is a slacker.

tradeable for any sort of decent return fans would be happy with. I kind of thought that one was obvious but spelled out now.

Got millions for being a slacker and assuring my team stays out of the playoffs. 

I don't know what you guys watch, but every game I see Sam coast, fake it, and go through the motions, turn the puck over and just generally fail numerous times. I sometimes feel it would be worth it to go through a recorded game and note the time and description of every bad play and list them, but I know that after spending hours on that effort you'd still make excuses and shoot it down so it'd be a waste of time. 

What Eichel needs on his wing is a Mike Foligno, and Sam is the farthest thing from that you can get. 

If you want to debate that Thompson isn't an NHLer that is a legit discussion.  Quite certain you're wrong. (again assuming he recovers from the shoulder injury)  But complaining that he isn't a "top liner" is silly because NOBODY has claimed he is.

And you do realize that except for 1 season where he hit 80 points, Foligno never broke 63 with the Sabres, right?  Reinhart complements Eichel very well, far better than Mike would've had he gotten to play with Jack.  (And this coming from a person that wants to see the roster revamped enough that Cozens can play with Eichel.)

And go right ahead and track all of Reinhart's misplays.  You might prove to us you're right. But, having watched every single game this season am expecting you'll find that his miscues don't cost the team goals but his 0.9 PPG pace helps them win games more often than not.  And, much to your chagrin, you might find that his subtle passes actually result in scoring chances/ goals.  But we'll forgive you for not pointing those out because we'll see them for ourselves.

 

[PerreaultForever]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If you want to debate that Thompson isn't an NHLer that is a legit discussion.  Quite certain you're wrong. (again assuming he recovers from the shoulder injury)  But complaining that he isn't a "top liner" is silly because NOBODY has claimed he is.

And you do realize that except for 1 season where he hit 80 points, Foligno never broke 63 with the Sabres, right?  Reinhart complements Eichel very well, far better than Mike would've had he gotten to play with Jack.  (And this coming from a person that wants to see the roster revamped enough that Cozens can play with Eichel.)

And go right ahead and track all of Reinhart's misplays.  You might prove to us you're right. But, having watched every single game this season am expecting you'll find that his miscues don't cost the team goals but his 0.9 PPG pace helps them win games more often than not.  And, much to your chagrin, you might find that his subtle passes actually result in scoring chances/ goals.  But we'll forgive you for not pointing those out because we'll see them for ourselves.

 

point 1 - bolded, that was my point, as I already said so there it is again.

point 2 - it's not all about points. I'm sure after games Sam compliments Jack a lot ("nice game Jack!" maybe being one of them). What he also does is wear Jack out by turning over the puck in the offensive zone and by forcing Jack to carry it up and down the ice all the time and have Jack go up against the D so that he can head off to that open area and wait. 

point 3 - I've watched every game too. Last year and the year before that............ and every time I see that thread called "I sometimes break a sweat" here on sabrespace my mind instantly thinks of Sam. 

A few things you seem to be missing. Watch the next game. His so called work against the wall. Watch how he doesn't finish his checks but turns or stops. Watch how he doesn't actually go in front but stands just off to the side. Watch how he steps away from contact or makes one of your so called subtle passes to avoid contact. The list goes on. He's a soft slacker through and through.

[LGR4GM]

Perrault and Pi have turned this thread into a factless wasteland of fake equivalencies, fake what ifs, and fake stories about Reinhart. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

point 1 - bolded, that was my point, as I already said so there it is again.

point 2 - it's not all about points. I'm sure after games Sam compliments Jack a lot ("nice game Jack!" maybe being one of them). What he also does is wear Jack out by turning over the puck in the offensive zone and by forcing Jack to carry it up and down the ice all the time and have Jack go up against the D so that he can head off to that open area and wait. 

point 3 - I've watched every game too. Last year and the year before that............ and every time I see that thread called "I sometimes break a sweat" here on sabrespace my mind instantly thinks of Sam. 

A few things you seem to be missing. Watch the next game. His so called work against the wall. Watch how he doesn't finish his checks but turns or stops. Watch how he doesn't actually go in front but stands just off to the side. Watch how he steps away from contact or makes one of your so called subtle passes to avoid contact. The list goes on. He's a soft slacker through and through.

Odd that you call him a soft slacker yet his captain and coach praise his work ethic. Almost like one of you is just completely wrong. 

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I didn't say to get rid of him.  He's a good good player.  Good.  Player.

He's a second line winger on a Cup contender. 

Pay him accordingly and I'm good with it. 

To maximize Eichel's potential he needs to play with finishers, not setup guys.  Reinhart isn't a finisher. 

Skinner is. 

Olofsson is.   

That's about it, they need more finishers, we all know that.

Dew Batter.

How many cup teams had 65 point 2nd line wingers in the last decade? Let me know. 

Eichel doesn't need only finishers. If he did why is he producing better without skinner? He's still producing without olofsson as well. Almost like he's got a great shot too. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by LGR4GM

[#freejame]

I feel stupider for having read this thread

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 

How many cup teams had 65 point 2nd line wingers in the last decade? Let me know. 

 

I will answer my own question because Pi insists that cup teams have allllll these guys scoring like crazy. So how many cup teams had multiple players at or above 65 points. Note I am just doing players not even limiting to just forwards. I will list the top 6 point producers from each team in terms of points. 

2007: 94, 78, 69/SR, 60, 59, 58 

2008: 97, 92, 70, SR, 55, 42, 42

2009: 113, 103, SR, 49, 49, 36, 35

2010: 88, 69/SR, 68, 66, 51, 44

2011: SR, 62, 62, 57, 53, 48 ,44

2012: 76, SR, 59, 54, 44, 36, 24

2013: lockout season so numbers do not apply

2014: 70, SR, 50, 43, 41, 37, 34

2015: SR, 66, 64, 61, 52, 45, 43

2016: 85, SR, 67, 59, 58, 51, 40

2017: 89, SR, 72, 70, 53, 51, 44

2018: 87, 83, 71, SR, 68, 47, 38

2019: 77, SR, 68, 54, 46, 41, 38

So just so you can see the lazy passenger Reinhart who is on pace for about 69 points slots in for most of these teams as the 2nd best player. He would be 2nd best or better for  on 8 of the 12 teams. 2 of the teams he would be 3rd best. Dew Butter... or Do butter... no wait... beau butler... no hold on... Dee butters... almost... do better. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Praise Jesus!  Someone with some sense around here.

I love how this team is hot garbage for a bunch of years now, under a variety of coaches, with only a handful of key pieces remaining constant, and folks want to continue to keep those key pieces in place!  

To all of you, I say:

You're right the best way to build the team is to jettison our 2nd leading scorer and Jack's wingman for a bunch of things like a prospect, first, and a mediocre roster player. That will really move us forward just like the ROR trade did. Also you are completely right about remaining constant. Reinhart just remains constant. What a loser. He has only upped his production every single season. He is only one the most consistent forwards on the team. For that I say, BANISH HIM! To Siberia if need be we don't have room on the Sabres for a 70 point forward. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

 

This is an excellent idea. If the Canucks want to ship us Petterson, or the Isles Barzal or the Bolts Point for a package built around Reinhart, fill your boots.

I suspect the great players won't be available.

Fun fact, Barzal was benched last night in the Isles game for the 3rd period because.... "Trotz says Barzal benching was “100 percent” about putting individual play ahead of the team. Not in a mood to elaborate." Arthur Staple

[dudacek]

So the meat of the criticism is that Sam Reinhart spends too much time looking for open space to make plays, sometimes loses battles, doesn’t connect with every pass, is not Tarasenko, and must be the reason the Sabres haven’t been good since he got here?

OK.

Edited January 22, 2020 by dudacek

[Zamboni]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So the meat of the criticism is that Sam Reinhart spends too much time looking for open space to make plays, sometimes loses battles, doesn’t connect with every pass, is not Tarasenko, and must be the reason the Sabres haven’t been good since he got here?

OK.

Um um don’t forget, like he falls down and goes boom a lot. And like the eye test says he’s not trying hard. He’s not a dipsy doodler. He like doesn’t skate fast like Jack. He doesn’t check opponents with the fierceness and ruthlessness of Eichel. Or is it VO? Or no no, I think it’s Dahlin. Such a shame. He should play a perfect game and be a perfect player. Like a robot. Yea yea, like a hockey robot made from Bauer, or Warrior. These low standards will only apply to Reinhart. Now if only one team would want a 65-70 point winger. Man he’s gonna be a tough one to move with all those faults, imperfections and lack of aggression.
Maybe Sabres could get someone like Gerbe back. I mean Gerbe passes the eye test for trying hard. He skates pretty and dipsy doodles sometimes. He body checks like a proper hockey player should. He doesn’t fall down and go boom too much due to his low center of gravity. His lack of 65-70 point production over his career won’t be a concern at all.  I mean c’mon he’ll play with Jack and everything will be perfect. At least he’ll look like he’s trying. I mean eye test is everything when you don’t wanna look at stats and or analytics. When you want to throw out baseless claims, armchair eye tests are the cornerstone of any argument. 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Zamboni

[Eleven]

How does this thread still exist?  Kill it with fire.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

So the meat of the criticism is that Sam Reinhart spends too much time looking for open space to make plays, sometimes loses battles, doesn’t connect with every pass, is not Tarasenko, and must be the reason the Sabres haven’t been good since he got here?

OK.

You forgot that he stands just to the side of the net looking to tip pucks, instead of directly in front of the net.  The slacker.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

42 minutes ago, Eleven said:

How does this thread still exist?  Kill it with fire.

What? Burn down the "she-shed"? ....