GDT: 11/14/19 Carolina vs Buffalo at 7pm ET, MSG &WGR550

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

What happened to our wonderkin? Why does nearly every elite player that comes here turn to dust.

Ask Flagg. As he's mentioned several times he wasn't as high on him as everyone else therefore we must hear about how he's worse than Jake McCabe at hockey. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

When do they do that?   When do they not play down to the competition?   

 

Games against mediocre teams the Sabres have shown up for this year include Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Dallas, and both Sharks games

[...]

8 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

There is plenty of blame to go around. Including but not limited to goaltending. Blaming everything except goaltending is shortsighted IMO. 

Totally. I'm not saying Hutton will win us a Cup, but I think he and Ullmark can get us into the playoffs if the team supports them.  What I am saying is that if we're looking at a game like this and hoping that the goalie could have stolen it for us, we're looking well past the real issues.

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Ask Flagg. As he's mentioned several times he wasn't as high on him as everyone else therefore we must here about how he's worse than Jake McCabe at hockey. 

You've done such a sterling job representing my stance that I don't have to add another word

[Gatorman0519]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

What happened to our wonderkin? Why does nearly every elite player that comes here turn to dust.

Because there is obviously something very fundamentally wrong with our organization.  

[Thorner]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

You've done such a sterling job representing my stance that I don't have to add another word

Well, I'm not going to misconstrue what you said, it loses shock value if I do. 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Games against mediocre teams the Sabres have shown up for this year include Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Dallas, and both Sharks games

Yes, those first few weeks of hope.  

Well, I’ll be watching.  Maybe we beat Ottawa but I would not bet against Chicago versus Buffalo.   

[Stoner]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Always thought Howe got impaled on 1 of the spikes holding the net in place and not the back of the old Art Ross net.

And also thought that was an impetus to go to the magnets that barely held the net in place.

They went to the new style nets to keep the puck in play as there was no longer a huge pile of netting sitting on the ice and also to keep the puck moving when behind the net rather than getting caught in the "cleavage" of the back of the net.

And the Palmateer injury was Gil's 2nd net induced injury.  He broke his leg back in '73-'74 crashing into the net (a big part of them missing the playoffs that year).

I looked it up recently and was firmly convinced it was one of the spikes. But tonight after reading the post I question, I googled it and saw a couple of stories about how it was the middle bar.  I'm confused.

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I agree with that, and that is the problem I have with a lot of stats. In this case, it lumps the unimportant faceoffs with the important ones. They matter when they matter. And different things matter more at different times.

Can’t see the trees because of the forest kinda thing.

Well, I'd need to see the conversation you were having. 

An example of one I've been involved with is as follows: "We need to acquire player x, because he's good at faceoffs and I always feel like we lose important faceoffs."

"Well, I don't think that player is very good at hockey, and so I don't think his faceoff winning ability has much value, especially when you consider that the best faceoff Sabres teams I've ever seen include one of the worst Sabres teams I've ever seen, and time and time again the bottom 10 NHL teams in faceoffs have as much standings and playoff success as the top teams in that regard, so I'd rather focus on acquiring good hockey players, and if they make us better at faceoffs that's cool, and if they don't, I don't really care because I'm gonna sit down for some playoff hockey" 

In that regard, I don't think any forests or trees are being missed. Having a player you can put out there and rely on to be one of the best in the league, to win maybe 5 more faceoffs than average over the course of about 3 games, is nice, but it gets talked up more than what it actually brings. ROR lost a ***** ton of important faceoffs in the playoffs, it was actually kinda funny to watch, and that's just how it goes sometimes

I just think that as much as you say "but that's how it always is in these stats arugments with you guys," you/your side are equally guilty of shoddy framing 
 

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, those first few weeks of hope.  

Well, I’ll be watching.  Maybe we beat Ottawa but I would not bet against Chicago versus Buffalo.   

I mean, we're still so early in the season that at some point in the near future tonight will be lumped in with those games as "the early part of this season" 

 

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Well, I'd need to see the conversation you were having. 

An example of one I've been involved with is as follows: "We need to acquire player x, because he's good at faceoffs and I always feel like we lose important faceoffs."

"Well, I don't think that player is very good at hockey, and so I don't think his faceoff winning ability has much value, especially when you consider that the best faceoff Sabres teams I've ever seen include one of the worst Sabres teams I've ever seen, and time and time again the bottom 10 NHL teams in faceoffs have as much standings and playoff success as the top teams in that regard, so I'd rather focus on acquiring good hockey players, and if they make us better at faceoffs that's cool, and if they don't, I don't really care because I'm gonna sit down for some playoff hockey" 

In that regard, I don't think any forests or trees are being missed. Having a player you can put out there and rely on to be one of the best in the league, to win maybe 5 more faceoffs than average over the course of about 3 games, is nice, but it gets talked up more than what it actually brings. ROR lost a ***** ton of important faceoffs in the playoffs, it was actually kinda funny to watch, and that's just how it goes sometimes

I just think that as much as you say "but that's how it always is in these stats arugments with you guys," you/your side are equally guilty of shoddy framing 
 

At least you admitted there is some shoddy framing going on.?

[Gatorman0519]

To not make the playoffs in almost a decade shows there is some serious foundational flows in our organization.  You actually have to work hard to be this consistently inept as an organization.  

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

At least you admitted there is some shoddy framing going on.?

It is the nature of humans debating each other innit?

Edit: I think I used "innit" improperly but I'm going to leave it, I don't think it's supposed to go where "isn't it" would properly finish a sentence

Edited November 15, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I looked it up recently and was firmly convinced it was one of the spikes. But tonight after reading the post I question, I googled it and saw a couple of stories about how it was the middle bar.  I'm confused.

Positive I never saw it.  Guess must have heard he got impaled and then assumed it was from the net coming off the spike.  Either that or am confusing him with somebody else, though that's less likely.

So, guess it's a good night in a way.  Learned something tonight.

[SwampD]

Well, we didn’t win, but at least I was entertained tonight.

Baby steps.

[Randall Flagg]

To me it's way more infuriating heading full bore into an 82 game schedule with a roster I don't believe capable of doing interesting things past February, than it is watching guys I genuinely like and respect as hockey players/humans play a hard-fought game that they narrowly lose. Like it's not Jimmy Vesey's fault that we are where we are, and it's not Rodrigues or Dahlin or Eichel or Reinhart or Hutton's fault either, I don't see any skater not doing their best given the nature of an NHL season and the ebbs and flows of results/effort/luck that come with such a long and grueling battle.

ONE injury, of a guy who probably isn't a top 3 forward on the team, stuck Rodrigues at 2C. That shouldn't be acceptable, but its necessity was cemented a long time ago, not tonight

But it's usually depressing/frowned upon to get too upset about it when there's actually time to do something about it and while those decisions are being made 

[Randall Flagg]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well, I'm not going to misconstrue what you said, it loses shock value if I do. 

What is shocking about suggesting that Dahlin has been worse this year than McCabe? I'd bet at least half of the fan base agrees with me. And McCabe hasn't been very good. But Dahlin has been horrifying for most of it 

I obviously don't think that'll always be true, but it's pretty clear to me that through 18 games it's been how it is

[Claude Balls]

16 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I looked it up recently and was firmly convinced it was one of the spikes. But tonight after reading the post I question, I googled it and saw a couple of stories about how it was the middle bar.  I'm confused.

He was impaled by the huge weapon in the bottom center of the goal. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/UUZGJTYwZjyAB3wq8

[Randall Flagg]

Buffalo specializes in roller coasters.

Last year, the Bills and Sabres combined gave us 12 straight wins and followed it up with 7 straight losses.

This year they began their seasons winning a combined 13 of 16, and have since lost 9 of 11.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Claude Balls said:

He was impaled by the huge weapon in the bottom center of the goal. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/UUZGJTYwZjyAB3wq8

Ugh.

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, Claude Balls said:

He was impaled by the huge weapon in the bottom center of the goal. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/UUZGJTYwZjyAB3wq8

Why on earth was that like that

[GASabresIUFAN]

Well we scored 4 goals

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Why on earth was that like that

They were tough and they walked to school, uphill, in both directions. They could take a spike to the back, throat and eyeball without so much as a whimper.

[SwampD]

32 minutes ago, ... said:

Oh, sorry, a shot was from the medium danger area on the PP.  How can I be so confused?

Just went back and watched them again. The PP goal was definitely closer than I remembered, but, boy, there was a lot of net for the shooter on that one.

But where is the game winner on that chart? It was outside the faceoff dot to Hutton’s left?

One more reason I have such an issue with making conclusions based upon data taken by drunk interns in real-time.?

Edited November 15, 2019 by SwampD

[Zamboni]

There wasn’t really any “crashing of the net”

goalies rarely went down to stop a puck. 

at one point, it was against the rules for goalies to go off their skate edges to stop a puck. They had to just stand there lol.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Zamboni

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

What is shocking about suggesting that Dahlin has been worse this year than McCabe? I'd bet at least half of the fan base agrees with me. And McCabe hasn't been very good. But Dahlin has been horrifying for most of it 

I obviously don't think that'll always be true, but it's pretty clear to me that through 18 games it's been how it is

Ya, I just don't agree. dudacek has spelled it out better than I could, I fall in line more with this thoughts on the matter.