Erod is a frustrating player to watch...

[freester]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Disagree.  The season before, he produced at a 24 goal, 56 point pace.  He was pretty good.

Those stats are inflated because he got a lot of PP time.

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, freester said:

Those stats are inflated because he got a lot of PP time.

He got a lot of PP the season or two after as well though!

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, freester said:

Those stats are inflated because he got a lot of PP time.

What does this even mean? 

 Don’t most 54-point players have stats that are inflated by PP time?

Each of the current top 10 scorers in the NHL has about 1/3 of their points on the PP.

Edited November 14, 2019 by dudacek

[freester]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What does this even mean? 

 Don’t most 54-point players have stats that are inflated by PP time?

Each of the current top 10 scorers in the NHL has about 1/3 of their points on the PP.

He's a mediocre player who was on the power play because we have so little talent

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, freester said:

He's a mediocre player who was on the power play because we have so little talent

Ok, but in later seasons he was still on the PP but did even worse.

[freester]

13 minutes ago, Curt said:

Ok, but in later seasons he was still on the PP but did even worse.

unfortunately very true

[Thorner]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:52 AM, dudacek said:

 

Each one of these players is an NHL hockey player, and effort is rarely an issue for most of them. Ability is another story.

Good NHL hockey teams dress 3 or 4 players of this level a night and they fill their roles. The Sabres dress 6 or 7 and, over the long haul, too many are overmatched.

We've almost recovered from the tank - we aren’t dressing multiple AHLers any more - but we still need more players that can usually be counted on to make a positive impact more often than they don’t rather than just holding their own.

This is such a damning point, either to the idea to tank in the first place or those in charge of managing it since, or both. 

On 11/13/2019 at 3:28 PM, dudacek said:

Agreed.

He went 10 games with only 1 point during a stretch last October. He scored 2 goals in all of December, 1 in all of January, and 1 in all of March, yet still had 17 on the season.

Like most 3rd liners, consistent scoring hasn’t really been a thing for him.

Agreed, and it just makes the decision to spend an asset, and more importantly, that much needed cap space, on a typical 3rd liner, of which we have many, more questionable. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

On 11/13/2019 at 3:12 PM, LabattBlue said:

I don't necessarily need bottom 6 players to "light up" the scoreboard, but they have to contribute in some way when not scoring...and that being said, they have to score at least a little...especially the 3rd line guys.  As the 1/4 pole is quickly approaching...

 

Goals+Assists

Erod 0+1
Girgensons 1+3
Larsson 1+1
Sobotka 1+2
Vesey 0+2
Okposo 1+4
Sheary 3+1

Re Erod, he hasn't been playing much and who's he been playing with?  Not saying he's a scoring machine but he has talent.  Ask Jack.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This is such a damning point, either to the idea to tank in the first place or those in charge of managing it since, or both. 

 

The dark side is strong, Thorny.  Embrace it.  Embrace your anger.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

The dark side is strong, Thorny.  Embrace it.  Embrace your anger.

Dark Lord knows we don't need to re-litigate the whole thing. But over time, it just became clear that the "the errors took place AFTER the tank, it was the REBUILD that failed" argument stopped holding water because, with the amount of glaring holes a scorched earth tank created, the straight mathematical odds of all or even most of those holes being filled adequately, when so much is a crap-shoot to begin with, could not be reasonably expected to be happen. Possible, certainly, but a fool's errand strategy from conception.

[Derrico]

Speaking of which.....

[bunomatic]

Yes. Yes he is.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Erod looks much better at center then wing.

[Kruppstahl]

On 11/13/2019 at 12:26 PM, Weave said:

I just don’t think erod is full NHL level player.  He’s a decent enough skater.  Decent enough shot and passer.  Decent work ethic.  But there isn’t one aspect of his game that rises far enough above decent to allow a role to be identified for him.

I think this is right. I was focusing on him in tonight's OT loss to the Hurricanes.  He just doesn't make enough plays that lead to good scoring chances or goals.  

But I would not single him out among this team's lousy secondary and tertiary players.  We have a lot of guys that fall into the "not enough" category.

 

 

[Kruppstahl]

On 11/13/2019 at 12:52 PM, dudacek said:

 

Each one of these players is an NHL hockey player, and effort is rarely an issue for most of them. Ability is another story.

Good NHL hockey teams dress 3 or 4 players of this level a night and they fill their roles. The Sabres dress 6 or 7 and, over the long haul, too many are overmatched.

We've almost recovered from the tank - we aren’t dressing multiple AHLers any more - but we still need more players that can usually be counted on to make a positive impact more often than they don’t rather than just holding their own.

If the test is "do they play in the NHL?" then yes, they are NHL players.

If the test is "should they be playing in the NHL" then the answer might be a bit different.

Sobotka, my favorite whipping boy, was arguably the worst forward in the entire NHL last year.  He is beyond terrible.

If guaranteed contracts did not exist he would have been cut a long time ago and would be working for a living in the American league, or more likely, back in Europe.

He does have a cute girlfriend and should be a multi-millionaire by now.  Good for him.

Just get him off this hockey team.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Kruppstahl

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Erod looks much better at center then wing.

Funny how that works. 

[triumph_communes]

Rodrigues has been a little better lately.  Vesey has laid an egg again.

 

Girgensons has forgotten about offense entirely.  Okposo is just a drag.  This team lacks talent in a big way.

[LabattBlue]

9 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Rodrigues has been a little better lately.  Vesey has laid an egg again.

 

Girgensons has forgotten about offense entirely.  Okposo is just a drag.  This team lacks talent in a big way.

...and yet they are at or near the cap max.  What's going to happen when they have to fork over big bucks for Reinhart and Dahlin?

Goaltending continues to be a huge problem.  Hopefully UPL is the answer, and he is ready for NHL action next season.

 

What a mess.  ?

[Curt]

13 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

...and yet they are at or near the cap max.  What's going to happen when they have to fork over big bucks for Reinhart and Dahlin?

Goaltending continues to be a huge problem.  Hopefully UPL is the answer, and he is ready for NHL action next season.

 

What a mess.  ?

The cap “problem” is not long term.  Several dead marginal, overpaid players come off the books after this season, freeing up plenty of cap space to resign all the upcoming Reinharts and Dahlins and probably leaving enough to take on another good player via FA or trade.

[Doohicksie]

5 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

I think this is right. I was focusing on him in tonight's OT loss to the Hurricanes.  He just doesn't make enough plays that lead to good scoring chances or goals.  

But I would not single him out among this team's lousy secondary and tertiary players.  We have a lot of guys that fall into the "not enough" category.

I saw him quite differently.  To me he was driving the only line that played hard every shift, and made some good plays on the puck in the offensive zone.  If the puck hadn't been so bouncy last night, that line scores two more goals.

[nfreeman]

15 hours ago, Thorny said:

Dark Lord knows we don't need to re-litigate the whole thing. But over time, it just became clear that the "the errors took place AFTER the tank, it was the REBUILD that failed" argument stopped holding water because, with the amount of glaring holes a scorched earth tank created, the straight mathematical odds of all or even most of those holes being filled adequately, when so much is a crap-shoot to begin with, could not be reasonably expected to be happen. Possible, certainly, but a fool's errand strategy from conception.

Yes indeedly.

And, it also has to be said, that while Eichel has shown flashes of greatness, one could easily conclude that in his 5th year he isn't a top-10 NHL player (and maybe not top-20), and thus nowhere near worth the blood and treasure that the franchise paid to get him.

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Yes indeedly.

And, it also has to be said, that while Eichel has shown flashes of greatness, one could easily conclude that in his 5th year he isn't a top-10 NHL player (and maybe not top-20), and thus nowhere near worth the blood and treasure that the franchise paid to get him.

If Eichel can put up over a point per game every season for the foreseeable future, and Dahlin can get himself close to that same pace next year, this whole mess will have been worth it, although getting Dahlin wasn't by design.

The rebuild has been terribly executed. But it could/should still work out, although on a longer timeline than we'd all like.

I wouldn't be as optimistic if we hadn't lucked into Dahlin though. Dahlin takes the edge off of tanking for Eichel.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

...and yet they are at or near the cap max.  What's going to happen when they have to fork over big bucks for Reinhart and Dahlin?

Goaltending continues to be a huge problem.  Hopefully UPL is the answer, and he is ready for NHL action next season.

 

What a mess.  ?

We have about 40 million coming off the cap this year. 

[LabattBlue]

50 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We have about 40 million coming off the cap this year. 

...and currently you only have 10 players under contract for 20-21 after said players are kicked to the curb(Bogo, Sancella,Hunwick, Sobotka, Vesey, Sheary, etc...).  How much will be left to sign any F/A or bring in high price players via trade, after the Sabres take care of their own?

 

Probably closer to 20mil, but with a lot of holes to fill at that point.  All the vacant spots can't be filled with youngsters from Rochester or juniors.

Edited November 15, 2019 by LabattBlue

[LGR4GM]

52 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

...and currently you only have 10 players under contract for 20-21 after said players are kicked to the curb(Bogo, Sancella,Hunwick, Sobotka, Vesey, Sheary, etc...).  How much will be left to sign any F/A or bring in high price players via trade, after the Sabres take care of their own?

 

Probably closer to 20mil, but with a lot of holes to fill at that point.  All the vacant spots can't be filled with youngsters from Rochester or juniors.

You have an additional 7-8 million coming off before Dahlin gets paid. 

I am not sure how you get to paying Dahlin and Reinhart 20mil. They aren't getting that. Reinhart will get 8 or maybe 8.5 and if Dahlin is signed this summer he could get anywhere from 6-9mil depending on the year he has. So we are talking about 30mil to fill out the roster and that's if Risto is still on the team. I'd guess it won't be that hard. Paying high priced FA's is a fools game because at 28 or 29 they are on the wrong side of the age curve. You can get lucky but probably won't. You are far better off finding the Mojo level players and bringing in them for 2-5 years. 

You specifically mention trades, how are we trading for high priced players without sending out players? That defeats itself on logic alone. I can bring in Ehlers because I can send out Risto. Math evens itself out. 

So yes with roughly 30mil in cap space I think they can find 10 players for the roster if needed.