Does Botterill make a trade this week?

[darksabre]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't it accumulate for games missed? I swear I read somewhere we bank that savings. 

It might, but at this point, it's not going to amount to much if he's on track to come back in less than a month.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It might, but at this point, it's not going to amount to much if he's on track to come back in less than a month.

My math already had it at almost a million bucks. if we get close to 1.5mil that is significant. 

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My math already had it at almost a million bucks. if we get close to 1.5mil that is significant. 

I mean, I think most people here were hoping we'd have like 4 mil to work with.

[dudacek]

I’m one of the few looking forward to Bogo’s return.

Our PK has been lacklustre and he was our best killer last year. And his physical presence makes me more comfortable about trading Risto.

Risto is a better player than Bogo, but I think Bogo will probably be just as effective in the role Risto is currently cast, with Montour picking up the PP time and some of the ES time.

Risto should be enough to garner at least a Johansson level player. Add one or more of ERod/Sheary/Olofsson/prospect/pick and we should have options to make a fair deal with the right partner to effectively address our biggest need.

Edited November 13, 2019 by dudacek

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I’m one of the few looking forward to Bogo’s return.

Our PK has been lacklustre and he was our best killer last year. And his physical presence makes me more comfortable about trading Risto.

Risto is a better player than Bogo, but I think Bogo will probably be just as effective in the role Risto is currently cast, with Montour picking up the PP time and some of the ES time.

Risto should be enough to garner at least a Johansson level player. Add one or more of ERod/Sheary/Olofsson/prospect/pick and we should have options to make a fair deal with the right partner.

I'm with you. Bogo was actually pretty good last year, and he paired well with Dahlin. The injury bug always bites him but I'm fine with him playing when he's healthy.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

On 11/11/2019 at 12:51 PM, Hank said:

42-40-0 = 82 points. 

40-26-16=92 points. 

This"deluca .500" narrative is retarded and needs to go away. 

I'm appalled that with all the advanced stats mathematics around here that we are now 4 pages into this and people still haven't caught this yet. I noticed it first time I saw it and waited to see who would catch it.

I guess there are more spelling whiz kids on here than anything else, LOL.

[Hank]

18 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I'm appalled that with all the advanced stats mathematics around here that we are now 4 pages into this and people still haven't caught this yet. I noticed it first time I saw it and waited to see who would catch it.

I guess there are more spelling whiz kids on here than anything else, LOL.

Ha!  I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. Oops...?

[Doohicksie]

18 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Are you saying that we might be able to get Hyman?

Watch it, Buster.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Ha!  I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. Oops...?

No prob.....it was just funny that no one commented on it as I waited and waited.

We all make mistakes.

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Watch it, Buster.

How did you know my name?

[LabattBlue]

With Bogo and Scandella back at practice, something has to give...

 

Risto

Dahlin

Bogo

Scandella

Gilmour

Joker

Montour

McCabe

Miller

[darksabre]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

With Bogo and Scandella back at practice, something has to give...

 

Risto

Dahlin

Bogo

Scandella

Gilmour

Joker

Montour

McCabe

Miller

Yup. 2 players need to go if they're going to carry Gilmour as a 7th.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't it accumulate for games missed? I swear I read somewhere we bank that savings. 

No, not at all.  Actually, while guys are on BF-LTIR any banked cap that may have accrued prior to placing somebody on IR gets burned daily by however much using the LTIR puts the team over the cap.

The interesting thing (at least to me) regarding LTIR is that the way the CBA is written, the team needs to have enough cap space available to accommodate the player's remaining salary before they are able to activate him.  I.e. once placed on LTIR he could be stuck there even after healthy if the team no longer has the cap room to accommodate him.  I'd always thought that they had to make the room for him when he was healthy which, at least as written, isn't the case.

So, I am very curious to see how they handle bringing him back to the roster.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Yup. 2 players need to go if they're going to carry Gilmour as a 7th.

Gilmour will be the 8th D-man.  Things only get interesting if they have 9 guys healthy.

(Teams like to carry 8 D presumably to make it easier to run drills (can have 2 pairs subbing in at each end of the ice and even for full ice drills there is an available pair waiting to sub in from either end).)

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No, not at all.  Actually, while guys are on BF-LTIR any banked cap that may have accrued prior to placing somebody on IR gets burned daily by however much using the LTIR puts the team over the cap.

The interesting thing (at least to me) regarding LTIR is that the way the CBA is written, the team needs to have enough cap space available to accommodate the player's remaining salary before they are able to activate him.  I.e. once placed on LTIR he could be stuck there even after healthy if the team no longer has the cap room to accommodate him.  I'd always thought that they had to make the room for him when he was healthy which, at least as written, isn't the case.

So, I am very curious to see how they handle bringing him back to the roster.

Are you sure about this? I can't imagine the NHLPA being super happy with a player being exiled to LTIR even if they're healthy. How does that even square with the whole rule about teams not being able to keep a player on IR if they're declared healthy?

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No, not at all.  Actually, while guys are on BF-LTIR any banked cap that may have accrued prior to placing somebody on IR gets burned daily by however much using the LTIR puts the team over the cap.

What if they are not using the LTIR over the cap? 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Are you sure about this? I can't imagine the NHLPA being super happy with a player being exiled to LTIR even if they're healthy. How does that even square with the whole rule about teams not being able to keep a player on IR if they're declared healthy?

Like I said, I'd always thought the way it worked was the team HAD to clear enough space (if they didn't already have it) to allow the guy to come back BUT technically the CBA is written backwards from that.  (As written, a guy can't be brought back until there is room and nothing (under that rule) says they HAVE to make that room.)

So, at least 1 of the following is the case: they league is ignoring its own guiding labor framework (and they ignore many others things they have written down, so it wouldn't be surprising), there is something in a totally different chapter clarifying it and am simply missing that, or we may not see Bogosian until everyone but Hunwick is healthy again so they have enough cap space to carry Sobotka's replacement, or they run with a shorter roster and only have 1 spare skater and use an emergency call up should they need 2 guys subbed in on short notice.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Taro T

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What if they are not using the LTIR over the cap? 

There would be no reason to use LTIR unless they need to exceed the cap.  It garners no other benefit above regular IR.

And, with Hunwick on LTIR, they are over the cap.  (Though allowably so, because he's on LTIR.)

(Edit: just caught the just of your question.). And should a player go on regular IR, the team could exceed the cap by up to however much they had banked.  (And that bank would be withdrawn from daily until no cap room remained at which point they'd have to make a move (sending somebody down, making a trade, using LTIR, or using an emergency recall (which then must be accounted for)).

Edited November 13, 2019 by Taro T

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Like I said, I'd always thought the way it worked was the team HAD to clear enough space (if they didn't already have it) to allow the guy to come back BUT technically the CBA is written backwards from that.  (As written, a guy can't be brought back until there is room and nothing (under that rule) says they HAVE to make that room.)

So, at least 1 of the following is the case: they league is ignoring its own guiding labor framework (and they ignore many others things they have written down, so it wouldn't be surprising), there is something in a totally different chapter clarifying it and am simply missing that, or we may not see Bogosian until everyone but Hunwick is healthy again so they have enough cap space to carry Sobotka's replacement, or they run with a shorter roster and only have 1 spare skater and use an emergency call up should they need 2 guys subbed in on short noticw.

I just feel like LTIR exile is typically voluntarily. If Bogo says "I'm healthy!" he has a right to play, doesn't he? 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

There would be no reason to use LTIR unless they need to exceed the cap.  It garners no other benefit above regular IR.

And, with Hunwick on LTIR, they are over the cap.  (Though allowably so, because he's on LTIR.)

I guess I don't understand how it works then. 

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I just feel like LTIR exile is typically voluntarily. If Bogo says "I'm healthy!" he has a right to play, doesn't he? 

I'm not sure that's right (but I'm also not sure that's wrong).  There have been players who insisted they were healthy, but the team insisted they weren't.  LaFontaine comes to mind IIRC.  (I know, that's forever ago, and probably not relevant to the current rules.)

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I guess I don't understand how it works then. 

See my earlier edit to the post you referenced.  Hopefully that helps some.

 

(I'd started typing out an explanation but it's turning into a book and will likely end up being even more confusing so I simply deleted it.  Sorry.)

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

See my earlier edit to the post you referenced.  Hopefully that helps some.

 

(I'd started typing out an explanation but it's turning into a book and will likely end up being even more confusing so I simply deleted it.  Sorry.)

 

So they would have a temporary bank of cap to exceed the current cap? 

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I'm not sure that's right (but I'm also not sure that's wrong).  There have been players who insisted they were healthy, but the team insisted they weren't.  LaFontaine comes to mind IIRC.  (I know, that's forever ago, and probably not relevant to the current rules.)

It isn't voluntary (pretty sure it was Lupol that was LTIR'd against his wishes).  But the Q becomes what happens if the player and team agree the player is healthy but the team doesn't have cap room for him?  I always thought the team HAD to make room to bring him back, and that is what teams typically do, but the CBA doesn't exactly state that.  It says he can't get activated until there is space.

So, if a GM were to not want to waive a player (Gilmour as an example) to make room for another player (Bogosian as another example) would he in fact have to waive him?

It could all be moot as the team had enough cap room initially to ice a roster with 2 spares and neither Montour nor Bogosian on LTIR.  But now that they need Lazar up, pretty sure they don't have cap space for everybody without somebody else going to LTIR (Sobotka?).

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So they would have a temporary bank of cap to exceed the current cap? 

In simplied form, yes.

[Stoner]

Abused Fan Syndome? Botterill knows the cap, so we can relax. Whether he's a good GM or not is very much still in doubt. But it's highly, highly unlikely you're all going to catch him in a cap blunder, at least not one born of ignorance of the rules.

Krueger's a good coach, too.