50 for 50 - Best Sabre Players of All-Time

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is Eichel a top 20 Sabre at this point?

[Thorner]

55 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t think that’s too uncommon.  Fan bases often blame their better players for the team’s lack of success.

[#freejame]

32 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is Eichel a top 20 Sabre at this point?

He hasn’t had the team success others have, but he’s certainly one of the 15 best to lace them up here. 

[Weave]

43 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is Eichel a top 20 Sabre at this point?

Too soon for me.  Top 20 talent?  Of course.  Top 20 Sabre?  Will be interesting to see the names that come up there.

Right now I don't put him ahead of Turgeon for sure.

[Thorner]

After seeing that goal, Jack top 5 sabres talent confirmed. 

[#freejame]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

After seeing that goal, Jack top 5 sabres talent confirmed. 

Right after Housley? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Too soon for me.  Top 20 talent?  Of course.  Top 20 Sabre?  Will be interesting to see the names that come up there.

Right now I don't put him ahead of Turgeon for sure.

But not far behind?

[dudacek]

Jack is already a far better Sabre than Turgeon was.

You gotta remember that Weave doesn’t have TV.

?

Edited October 10, 2019 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Jack is already a far better Sabre than Turgeon was.

You gotta remember that Weave doesn’t have TV.

?

If we're actually good this year, I'd put money on this man winning us a playoff series on his own. 

Then he will rightfully skyrocket up these lists!

[Weave]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Jack is already a far better Sabre than Turgeon was.

You gotta remember that Weave doesn’t have TV.

?

Hey!

I think that timing and circumstance around when these two guys joined the team has a huge effect on how they are perceived.  

Turgeon had the misfortune of immediately replacing the most beloved Sabre ever, and a true HOFer, and was traded for the most charismatic player we’ve ever had who happened to have HOF level talent himself.  And as mentioned upthread, Turgeon is the highest scoring player not in the HOF.

Jack, on the other hand, filled a vacuum of suckitude. Frankly, it’s been since LaFontaine that we’ve had this kind of skill level at forward.

There is no shade in claiming Jack is working towards Pierre level.  He’s accomplished less so far, after all.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Hey!

I think that timing and circumstance around when these two guys joined the team has a huge effect on how they are perceived.  

Turgeon had the misfortune of immediately replacing the most beloved Sabre ever, and a true HOFer, and was traded for the most charismatic player we’ve ever had who happened to have HOF level talent himself.  And as mentioned upthread, Turgeon is the highest scoring player not in the HOF.

Jack, on the other hand, filled a vacuum of suckitude. Frankly, it’s been since LaFontaine that we’ve had this kind of skill level at forward.

There is no shade in claiming Jack is working towards Pierre level.  He’s accomplished less so far, after all.

I agree.  Jack has had less to work with, but we went from taking Pierre 1st overall to the playoffs immediately. Pierre was also a pt a game player and then some very quickly.  Jack’s close but he hasn’t had a truly dominate season yet.  Maybe this year.

The biggest thing in Jack’s favor is the franchise’s commitment to him.  Jbot isn’t trading him unless the Oilers offer McDavid.  

Edited October 10, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

I have started the new poll.  

There are 11 choices in each poll and I think I covered all the possible options for 3 & 4. 

The 11 choices are

Forwards: LaFontaine, Mogilny, Andreychuk, Gare, Robert, Martin and Craig Ramsay

Defense: Housley, Mike Ramsey, Schoenfeld

Goalie: Miller

Edited October 10, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Zamboni]

I’ll consider Jack Eichel after I see his body of work for as long or longer as the guys on the lists now. 

So if Eichel has a career ending injury tomorrow ... never laced them up again ... who is he ahead of on this current list?

So if Eichel gets traded after tomorrow and never plays for the Sabres again ... who is he ahead of on this current list?

The list, by the way is 50 best Sabre players. Not 50 best NHL players.

[dudacek]

25 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I’ll consider Jack Eichel after I see his body of work for as long or longer as the guys on the lists now. 

So if Eichel has a career ending injury tomorrow ... never laced them up again ... who is he ahead of on this current list?

So if Eichel gets traded after tomorrow and never plays for the Sabres again ... who is he ahead of on this current list?

The list, by the way is 50 best Sabre players. Not 50 best NHL players.

This list? No one. Top 50 candidates? Lots.

Eichel has played 290 Sabres games. This year should push him past Turgeon (322), Don Edwards (307) Dale Hawerchuk (342) and Mike Peca (363) He's already played more than Lafontaine, Briere, Drury and Barrasso.

At the end of this year, he should be among the top 25 all-time Sabre scorers and probably will be in the top 20. That will put him ahead of guys like Ramsey, Turgeon and Ruff. He's already ahead of Peca, Drury and Briere.

He's 12th in franchise history in points per game.

The list of guys who match or exceed his talent is short: Dom, Bert, Patty, Ducky, Almo and sneaky Pete.

He has to be a contender for the top 20 already and two more years like last year coupled with some team success, he will be in the top 10.

Edited October 10, 2019 by dudacek

[dudacek]

As far as the current polls go, Phil Housley as the 4th best Sabre of all time is a ***** travesty. The only blood Phil ever shed for this team was shaving in the shower and the most sweat he ever generated was when Botts called him into the office last April.

Picking him over Mike Ramsey is like picking Derek Plante over Mike Peca or Derek Roy over Chris Drury.

Edited October 10, 2019 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, dudacek said:

As far as the current polls go, Phil Housley as the 4th best Sabre of all time is a ***** travesty. The only blood Phil ever shed for this team was shaving in the shower and the most sweat he ever shed was when Botts called him into the office last April.

Picking him over Mike Ramsey is like picking Derek Plante over Mike Peca or Derek Roy over Chris Drury.

I don't see how anyone could pick Mogilny over Gare and Martin.  So there's that.

Ramsey vs Phil is tough.  Phil is one of the best talents ever to play for the Sabres and is far and away the greatest offensive D ever to play for us.  That may change in 5 or so years as Dahlin develops, but before their was Dahlin in the NHL there was Wowee Housley.  Ramsey wins on longevity. defensive play and leadership and he should be in our top 10, but I don't think think of his impact as great on the Sabres style of play as Housley.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Alex The Great at #3 and Schoeny at #4.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Alex The Great at #3 and Schoeny at #4.

What happened to Gare?

[Zamboni]

Well, there in lies the rub. What do you feel is most important when judging?

Goals?

Points?

Seasons (games) as a Sabre?

Something else?

Thats why, even as simple as a top 5 list ... there is no agreement. Let alone top 50. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Well, there in lies the rub. What do you feel is most important when judging?

Goals?

Points?

Seasons (games) as a Sabre?

Something else?

Thats why, even as simple as a top 5 list ... there is no agreement. Let alone top 50. 

Which is why were are voting

[Sabres Fan in NS]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What happened to Gare?

I voted for him as the second best Sabre and, IMO, he is that.  I will not keep voting for him just to get him in there somewhere.  So, I am voting for who I see is the Sabre in the next available slots.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

As far as the current polls go, Phil Housley as the 4th best Sabre of all time is a ***** travesty. The only blood Phil ever shed for this team was shaving in the shower and the most sweat he ever generated was when Botts called him into the office last April.

Picking him over Mike Ramsey is like picking Derek Plante over Mike Peca or Derek Roy over Chris Drury.

You. Me. Eye to eye.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If no one gets over 50% do I need a run-off?

[Thorner]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  Jack has had less to work with, but we went from taking Pierre 1st overall to the playoffs immediately. Pierre was also a pt a game player and then some very quickly.  Jack’s close but he hasn’t had a truly dominate season yet.  Maybe this year.

The biggest thing in Jack’s favor is the franchise’s commitment to him.  Jbot isn’t trading him unless the Oilers offer McDavid.  

Right but we should consider league scoring rates. Especially Eichel’s first couple seasons, scoring has been much lower league wide relative to when Turgeon broke in. 

League leaders in his first 3 years ranged from 140-200 points. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

This list? No one. Top 50 candidates? Lots.

Eichel has played 290 Sabres games. This year should push him past Turgeon (322), Don Edwards (307) Dale Hawerchuk (342) and Mike Peca (363) He's already played more than Lafontaine, Briere, Drury and Barrasso.

At the end of this year, he should be among the top 25 all-time Sabre scorers and probably will be in the top 20. That will put him ahead of guys like Ramsey, Turgeon and Ruff. He's already ahead of Peca, Drury and Briere.

He's 12th in franchise history in points per game.

The list of guys who match or exceed his talent is short: Dom, Bert, Patty, Ducky, Almo and sneaky Pete.

He has to be a contender for the top 20 already and two more years like last year coupled with some team success, he will be in the top 10.

Crazy!