Around the NHL 2019-20

[That Aud Smell]

My guess? Many, many NHL (and SC playoff) games will be played in front of empty arenas. The people whom I know personally and trust on such matters are essentially unanimous (okay, it's 3 people, but still): This thing is about to bust wide open in the U.S.

[Scottysabres]

Wise choices to attempt to slow the spread. My thread was shut down on this, but, I cannot post in the oval office due to my political passions. All I'll say is, my family friend in Japan, who is in the know, says prepare for it to get much worse. Much of what IS NOT being reported specifically to avoid a panic is what he is in reference to. I'm no medical guy by any stretch, but when someone with that kind of access to a foreign gov'ts actual numbers and is indirectly involved in global planning on this, I pay attention.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Scottysabres

[MattPie]

41 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Wise choices to attempt to slow the spread. My thread was shut down on this, but, I cannot post in the oval office due to my political passions. All I'll say is, my family friend in Japan, who is in the know, says prepare for it to get much worse. Much of what IS NOT being reported specifically to avoid a panic is what he is in reference to. I'm no medical guy by any stretch, but when someone with that kind of access to a foreign gov'ts actual numbers and is indirectly involved in global planning on this, I pay attention.

Schrodingers media, which is where the media is stirring up a panic and under-reporting at the same time. ? 

[Brawndo]

 

[Scottysabres]

9 minutes ago, MattPie said:

Schrodingers media, which is where the media is stirring up a panic and under-reporting at the same time. ? 

I don't think it's so much under repor5ing, the sports world is doing their part to try and slow the spread. What isn't being reported, at least in totality globally, is the actual spread rate.

The medical people can speak to its implications as far as who gets more sick than others and why, but my family friend says the spread is larger than being reported, at least, where he's at.

[pi2000]

[Neo]

On 3/6/2020 at 3:07 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Oh absolutely as a whole they fight way less, but it's like Zamboni said, in March things change. When you have teams that compete, teams that care, play passionately, stuff breaks out on occasion. We almost never see this from the Sabres because they can't play that way and basically don't seem to care. 

I’m an old schooler, as you know, but I haven’t drawn the same conclusion as you have ... yet!  The 25 year old man playing in the NHL today grew up in a different environment than the 25 year old playing in 1985.  Thirty five years ago, both skill guys and tough guys had paths to the NHL.  They were coached and groomed according to their aptitudes and what they brought to the game.  I believe they both cared and gave full efforts.  The NHL wanted tough guys.  They graduated juniors and the NHL gobbled them up in some proportion.  Today, the grooming is almost always geared toward skill.  It’s easier to see effort if a guy drops his gloves.  How much effort, over how many years, went into Skinner’s ability to skate like a joy-stick controls him?  Lots.  When I look for effort, I have to work harder, today.  Rob Ray bobbing his head, making his helmet dance, in a face off circle was a clear signal that “this guy’s gonna bring it”.  It was explosive and flashy and easy to spot.

Now, we’ll both agree that skill and snarl are not mutually exclusive.  “Both” is good.  I’d like more snarl.  I believe I see effort.

I was a house league player who was booed by other teams’ parents in 1974.  Guess what my role was?  If only I’d worked my edges.

Passion takes many forms.  Dali melted, Picasso cubed, Monet dabbed and Rodin trimmed.  The first two slap you in the face.  The last two nudge your heart.  Passionate, all.

PS ...  somewhere on the web is a story told by Matthew Barnaby about being 16 or 17 years old.  He’d lie awake at night before games, knowing what was expected of him.  He was groomed to fight.  It made him puke.  I miss yesterday’s tough guys less seeing his troubles, today.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Neo

[dudacek]

It seems a preponderance of hockey fans my age and older conflate "effort" and "caring" with physical aggression and "flaring tempers."

I guess the game of my youth is responsible for that connection, but its false when applied to the way the game is played today.

Edited March 10, 2020 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, Neo said:

I’m an old schooler, as you know, but I haven’t drawn the same conclusion as you have ... yet!  The 25 year old man playing in the NHL today grew up in a different environment than the 25 year old playing in 1985.  Thirty five years ago, both skill guys and tough guys had paths to the NHL.  They were coached and groomed according to their aptitudes and what they brought to the game.  I believe they both cared and gave full efforts.  The NHL wanted tough guys.  They graduated juniors and the NHL gobbled them up in some proportion.  Today, the grooming is almost always geared toward skill.  It’s easier to see effort if a guy drops his gloves.  How much effort, over how many years, went into Skinner’s ability to skate like a joy-stick controls him?  Lots.  When I look for effort, I have to work harder, today.  Rob Ray bobbing his head, making his helmet dance, in a face off circle was a clear signal that “this guy’s gonna bring it”.  It was explosive and flashy and easy to spot.

Now, we’ll both agree that skill and snarl are not mutually exclusive.  “Both” is good.  I’d like more snarl.  I believe I see effort.

I was a house league player who was booed by other teams’ parents in 1974.  Guess what my role was?  If only I’ve had worked my edges.

Passion takes many forms.  Dali melted, Picasso cubed, Monet dabbed and Rodin trimmed.  The first two slap you in the face.  The last two nudge your heart.  Passionate, all.

PS ...  somewhere on the web is a story told by Matthew Barnaby about being 16 or 17 years old.  He’d lie awake at night before games, knowing what was expected if him.  He was groomed to fight.  It made him puke.  I miss yesterday’s tough guys less seeing his troubles, today.

This is a fair point, but as I remember it back in the day it wasn't as clearly demarcated as you suggest. Guys with fighter roles in junior rarely made the NHL. The NHL tough guys were skilled players at lower levels who found out they were too slow or lacked some other aspect at the higher level. They would work out, beef up, learn to fight, do what they could to earn a role and try to stay. Rob Ray didn't come in as a fighter. He developed that as it was his only way of staying in the show. 

This one I might have mixed up with someone else/similar but if I remember correctly Dave Schultz was a goal scorer in junior hockey and only became what he became because he had to, and he actually hated it. But it was a role, the crowds cheered, and you do what you gotta do. 

Role players are vital for playoff runs, and while today's tough guys have to also have some skill, they are far from extinct. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

It seems a preponderance of hockey fans my age and older conflate "effort" and "caring" with physical aggression and "flaring tempers."

I guess the game of my youth is responsible for that connection, but its false when applied to the way the game it played today.

Just speaking for myself it might seem like that with illustrations and examples used to make points but I don't mean that at all. The fights/scuffles etc. are simply by products of the passion and effort you want. It's male testosterone mixed with adrenaline I guess if you want to be clinical. 

Effort and caring also means blocking shots, coming to team mates aid, diving for loose pucks, skating your ass off to try to catch a break away, getting into the hard areas and digging for a puck even if it means you might get a few bruises. Lots of extra things like that and they show. You see the sweat and the out of breath guy making it back to the bench. It's caring and you know it does show.

I'm not going to go into a Reinhart thing here but the antithesis of this is the goal in Detroit where he looked at the clock and quit skating.  Some players let things like that happen, some players skate past the buzzer. 

[darksabre]

Bruins - Flyers on NBCSN right now is some great hockey 

[pi2000]

Nic Deslauriearerieier with the natural hat trick in the 1st period.

He has more more goals in one period than Sam Reinhart the last 45 periods.

Edited March 11, 2020 by pi2000

[Randall Flagg]

Wow, he nearly tripled his career scoring total in just 20 mins 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, Neo said:

I’m an old schooler, as you know, but I haven’t drawn the same conclusion as you have ... yet!  The 25 year old man playing in the NHL today grew up in a different environment than the 25 year old playing in 1985.  Thirty five years ago, both skill guys and tough guys had paths to the NHL.  They were coached and groomed according to their aptitudes and what they brought to the game.  I believe they both cared and gave full efforts.  The NHL wanted tough guys.  They graduated juniors and the NHL gobbled them up in some proportion.  Today, the grooming is almost always geared toward skill.  It’s easier to see effort if a guy drops his gloves.  How much effort, over how many years, went into Skinner’s ability to skate like a joy-stick controls him?  Lots.  When I look for effort, I have to work harder, today.  Rob Ray bobbing his head, making his helmet dance, in a face off circle was a clear signal that “this guy’s gonna bring it”.  It was explosive and flashy and easy to spot.

Now, we’ll both agree that skill and snarl are not mutually exclusive.  “Both” is good.  I’d like more snarl.  I believe I see effort.

I was a house league player who was booed by other teams’ parents in 1974.  Guess what my role was?  If only I’d worked my edges.

Passion takes many forms.  Dali melted, Picasso cubed, Monet dabbed and Rodin trimmed.  The first two slap you in the face.  The last two nudge your heart.  Passionate, all.

PS ...  somewhere on the web is a story told by Matthew Barnaby about being 16 or 17 years old.  He’d lie awake at night before games, knowing what was expected if him.  He was groomed to fight.  It made him puke.  I miss yesterday’s tough guys less seeing his troubles, today.

How is it you always say stuff I agree with so d*mn much more succinctly and eloquently?

?

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, darksabre said:

Bruins - Flyers on NBCSN right now is some great hockey 

Fantastic goaltending at both ends too. 

3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Nic Deslauriearerieier with the natural hat trick in the 1st period.

He has more more goals in one period than Sam Reinhart the last 45 periods.

Didn't see this one. Did he deflect them in off his head?

[Eleven]

8 hours ago, pi2000 said:

He has more more goals in one period than Sam Reinhart the last 45 periods.

You have it all here, folks.  Clearly, Nic Deslauriers is a better player than Sam Reinhart.  He's also equal to Jeff Skinner.  Why are the Sabres paying Skinner so much when they could have Deslauriers?

Edited March 11, 2020 by Eleven

[Curt]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is a fair point, but as I remember it back in the day it wasn't as clearly demarcated as you suggest. Guys with fighter roles in junior rarely made the NHL. The NHL tough guys were skilled players at lower levels who found out they were too slow or lacked some other aspect at the higher level. They would work out, beef up, learn to fight, do what they could to earn a role and try to stay. Rob Ray didn't come in as a fighter. He developed that as it was his only way of staying in the show. 

This one I might have mixed up with someone else/similar but if I remember correctly Dave Schultz was a goal scorer in junior hockey and only became what he became because he had to, and he actually hated it. But it was a role, the crowds cheered, and you do what you gotta do. 

I think you are misremember to an extent.  Both those guys were fighters from the start.

Rob Ray accumulated 446 PIM in his very first season of pro hockey, as a 20 year old in the AHL.  He put up some points in the OHL, but a lot more PIMs.  He had 318 PIM in just 35 games as a 16 year old in the OJHL.  He was always a fighter.

Schultz did score in juniors, minors, and actually in the NHL a bit too, but he fought as well from the start.  138 PIM in 59 games at 17, 356 PIM at 19, and on from there.  He was always a fighter.

Its not that there were a lot of guys who didn’t fight, then became fighters to get NHL jobs.  It’s just that a lot more guys fought, and there was a place in the NHL for guys who fought, even if their hockey skills, which were good in lower leagues, were not good for the NHL.

[Neo]

6 hours ago, Taro T said:

How is it you always say stuff I agree with so d*mn much more succinctly and eloquently?

?

I had the SAME thought when I read @dudacek, above!

[Eleven]

14 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

So it's just the Sharks and Panthers that will play in empty arenas?

[MattPie]

22 minutes ago, Eleven said:

So it's just the Sharks and Panthers that will play in empty arenas?

Devils too, but that's not new.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

You have it all here, folks.  Clearly, Nic Deslauriers is a better player than Sam Reinhart.  He's also equal to Jeff Skinner.  Why are the Sabres paying Skinner so much when they could have Deslauriers?

[#freejame]

Larry Walker will be honored tonight as the Avalanches emergency goaltender. 

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Larry Walker will be honored tonight as the Avalanches emergency goaltender. 

Ugh.  I did not foresee this collateral effect of the EBUG rule.  Now every team is going to start anointing local celebrities as the emergency goalie, right?  I can't wait until it's Janet Snyder's turn.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Eleven

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Says you!

[#freejame]

21 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Ugh.  I did not foresee this collateral effect of the EBUG rule.  Now every team is going to start anointing local celebrities as the emergency goalie, right?  I can't wait until it's Janet Snyder's turn.

At least he has played goaltender in his youth. Before becoming a hall of fame baseball player he tried out several times for junior teams across Canada. But I’m with you on that, I hope we don’t see it.