dudacek Posted September 16, 2020 Report Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Weave said: I'm inclinded to agree with the point PA is making. I think JBott was throttled by the Pegulas. My gut feeling was that he was an implementer of Pegula decisions and not a maker of his own decisions. We are leaving a trail of beaten and crushed GM's in the wake of this Pegula led team. I'm ready to believe that the bad decision making wasn't necessarily the GM choices. I do not, for a second, believe that Pegula was behind the decisions to acquire Carter Hutton, Marcus Johansson, Brandon Montour, Jimmy Vesey, Henri Jokiharju, Miller, Michal Frolik, Sobotka, Berglund, Thompson, Mittelstadt, or that killer free agent class of 2017 over Botterill's better judgement. I do, however, believe that he was behind the decision to trade Kane, and the deadline to trade O'Reilly, and was at least a strong cheerleader for the hiring of Housley and the acquisition of Sheary. I also believe that many (most?) GMs deal with similar levels of input from their owners and succeed in spite of it. Or, as my favourite Josie painting on here is fond of saying Botterill sucked. 2 Quote
Thorner Posted September 16, 2020 Report Posted September 16, 2020 I also don't think Pegula came up with that asinine draft strategy Quote
ubkev Posted September 16, 2020 Report Posted September 16, 2020 17 hours ago, Eleven said: Sure. You also could be assigned to assassinate an African dictator on his yacht and decline--at the last minute--to do so. As a result, you are shot in the back five times and float nearly to your death in the Atlantic. An Italian fishing boat might pick you up and deliver you to a train station where you can get to Switzerland. In Zurich, you discover a safe deposit box with lots of currency from many countries, various contact lenses, about ten different passports, and a gun. Later, you meet a cute redhead who is willing to drive you to Paris for $20K. Same thing happened to me! Quote
Taro T Posted September 16, 2020 Report Posted September 16, 2020 18 hours ago, Eleven said: Sure. You also could be assigned to assassinate an African dictator on his yacht and decline--at the last minute--to do so. As a result, you are shot in the back five times and float nearly to your death in the Atlantic. An Italian fishing boat might pick you up and deliver you to a train station where you can get to Switzerland. In Zurich, you discover a safe deposit box with lots of currency from many countries, various contact lenses, about ten different passports, and a gun. Later, you meet a cute redhead who is willing to drive you to Paris for $20K. Or, Botterill sucked. You got shot 5 times? Most of us only catch 2. They must REALLY have disliked you. 😉 1 Quote
jsb Posted September 22, 2020 Report Posted September 22, 2020 Well Victor made the All Rookie Team which shouldn't be a surprise. I didn't see it posted anywhere else. @Brawndo may be sleeping in late today. Quote
Thorner Posted September 22, 2020 Report Posted September 22, 2020 Highest finish for a Sabres forward in nearly 3 decades. Quote
Marvin Posted September 22, 2020 Report Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/16/2020 at 4:06 PM, Taro T said: You got shot 5 times? Most of us only catch 2. They must REALLY have disliked you. 😉 Terminated with EXTREME prejudice, I guess. Quote
DeleteThisAccount Posted September 29, 2020 Report Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) This seems to be a long thread, but referring specifically to the discussion regarding Botterill's firing: I can't answer the question as to who made the decision in regards to who had the most input in regards to O'Reilly being traded when he was. I also can't answer who essentially negotiated Skinner's contract number. jw Edited September 29, 2020 by john wawrow 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 Didn't really know where to put this and couldn't think how to start a thread with it but I think it is important to share and discuss. 1 Quote
Stoner Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 Ohhhhhh you know where this one's going! Quote
dudacek Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Ohhhhhh you know where this one's going! How would you frame the discussion? Quote
Curt Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Didn't really know where to put this and couldn't think how to start a thread with it but I think it is important to share and discuss. It sounds like the way that he behaved as a child/early teen was truly horrible. He deserved to be held accountable for those actions, made to understand why it is unacceptable, and made to explore why he felt the need to do those things. As a result of his actions, that 14 year old was taken to juvenile court, plead guilty, and was sentenced to provide recompense to society. We (as a society, as a world) need to allow for children to learn, grow, and become their best selves. We can not “cancel” a child and sentence them to a lifetime of unfulfilled potential. This young man will always have to live with the memory and reputation of what he has done, but we need to let him go on and continue to live. 4 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 30 minutes ago, Curt said: It sounds like the way that he behaved as a child/early teen was truly horrible. He deserved to be held accountable for those actions, made to understand why it is unacceptable, and made to explore why he felt the need to do those things. As a result of his actions, that 14 year old was taken to juvenile court, plead guilty, and was sentenced to provide recompense to society. We (as a society, as a world) need to allow for children to learn, grow, and become their best selves. We can not “cancel” a child and sentence them to a lifetime of unfulfilled potential. This young man will always have to live with the memory and reputation of what he has done, but we need to let him go on and continue to live. He can live, but if at 14 you don't know that bullying someone with a developmental disability is bad and that mentally torturing them and forcing them to eat a urinal and pee sucker is abhorrent, I don't need to give you the opportunity to play hockey for my team. Very thankful he's not in the Sabres organization. Quote
Curt Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: He can live, but if at 14 you don't know that bullying someone with a developmental disability is bad and that mentally torturing them and forcing them to eat a urinal and pee sucker is abhorrent, I don't need to give you the opportunity to play hockey for my team. Very thankful he's not in the Sabres organization. Totally fair. I guess that’s part of having to live with his past actions. I guess my question is, where does it end? If, IF, he seems to have learned and grown from the experience, and is now a better, more self aware human being, when is it ok for him to go on? From the article is sounds like the victims parents would like this guy banned from the NHL for what he did in 7th and 8th grade. I understand that they are hurt, but that doesn’t sit right with me. Maybe he knew it was wrong but did it anyway. Maybe he wanted the approval of his peers. Maybe he was insecure. Maybe he was self absorbed. There are emotional and social reasons that people behave this way. That doesn’t make it right, but it means that people can experience personal growth. I’m just not ready to write off 13-14 year old children for life because they ***** up bad. I ask again, where does it end? If he can’t be in the NHL, what should and shouldn’t he be allowed to do with his life? 1 Quote
bg17 Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: He can live, but if at 14 you don't know that bullying someone with a developmental disability is bad and that mentally torturing them and forcing them to eat a urinal and pee sucker is abhorrent, I don't need to give you the opportunity to play hockey for my team. Very thankful he's not in the Sabres organization. Repellent behavior but maybe it was learned behavior. Maybe he was bullied by some sick person himself. Maybe he uses the future stage to draw awareness. I would rather not be so quick to write a teenager’s final chapter. Quote
LGR4GM Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) The boy he harassed, when does it end for him? When will those emotional and mental scars heal? This wasn't a single incident but a pattern of behavior. It finally culminated in the urinal sucker incident. To then never apologize makes him a coward. I have more sympathy for the victim, than empathy for the assailant. Idc what this kid does with his life, I'm not here to answer that. I hope he never sets foot in the NHL, because then maybe he'll actually find remorse and empathy. Like I said, he'll never be a Sabre and for that I'm grateful. 3 minutes ago, bg17 said: Repellent behavior but maybe it was learned behavior. Maybe he was bullied by some sick person himself. Maybe he uses the future stage to draw awareness. I would rather not be so quick to write a teenager’s final chapter. I'm not writing anything, I just don't have to want him near my favorite hockey team. There's lots of ppl who don't learn and continue to do harm. Considering the lack of remorse the article notes, I'm skeptical this kid even cares. But again, glad he's not a Sabre. Edited October 26, 2020 by LGR4GM Quote
Wyldnwoody44 Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 I find it easier to allow a younger man to grow and learn than I do allowing the Kanes of the league pull their crap as adults. 1 Quote
PerreaultForever Posted October 26, 2020 Report Posted October 26, 2020 So weird for leaves to be falling and frost hitting the ground and it's the off season for hockey............. Quote
LGR4GM Posted October 27, 2020 Report Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) Edited October 27, 2020 by LGR4GM Quote
Brawndo Posted October 27, 2020 Report Posted October 27, 2020 The Sabres had him on Their Do Not Draft List 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2020 Report Posted October 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Brawndo said: The Sabres had him on Their Do Not Draft List Interesting. I wonder if our new director of amateur scouting also knew about this since he was USA hockey guy. Glad Mitchell stayed off our draft list. Quote
dudacek Posted October 28, 2020 Report Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Interesting. I wonder if our new director of amateur scouting also knew about this since he was USA hockey guy. Glad Mitchell stayed off our draft list. Every team in the league knew about this. Mitchell wrote them all, apologizing for his behaviour and saying he had changed. A number of teams didn’t believe him, after doing their due diligence, and crossed him off their draft boards. The Athletic article Brawndo quoted is an excellent exploration of the issue. The kind of journalism that proves you get the type of content you pay for. https://theathletic.com/2162185/2020/10/27/arizona-coyotes-mitchell-miller-bullying-nhl/ I’m actually kinda surprised this story is just blowing up now. I read about it months ago while reading up on draft prospects. Edited October 28, 2020 by dudacek Quote
dudacek Posted October 28, 2020 Report Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) A lot of this falls on Former Sabres Director of Scouting Ryan Jankowski, who ran the Coyotes draft. Their GM Bill Armstrong was not allowed to participate because of his intel coming over from the Blues. Miller was not on our draft board when Jankowski was fired, nor on the Coyotes when Chayka was fired. That seems to suggest Botterill removed him from our list over Jankowski’s objections and Jankowski reversed that call! and Chayka’s when he was in charge. Did he run it by anyone? Was he acting on someone else’s instructions? Edited October 28, 2020 by dudacek Quote
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