Lines October 1st

[...]

FIRE RALPH "FREDDY" KRUEGER!

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

And in 2 weeks, a team expected at BEST to possibly, maybe sneak into the playoffs and more than likely at BEST to just barely miss the playoffs will be how many points out of that playoff spot?

This decision does nothing to alleviate my concern that Botterill WANTS to miss the playoffs this year and land 1 more top 10 prospect before switching into 'let's try to make the playoffs ' mode.

LT, that might even make sense, but it does nothing to make ANYONE actually want to pay to see this product today.  And this will be the 3rd year in a row that the GM has been willing to flush the current season.  Getting seriously close to Calloway 's level of frustration.

I feel good enough about this team that I don't think a bad October buries their playoff chances. I still think they're a bubble team anyway. 

I also don't think they end up having a bad October even with Vlad on the second line for a bit. 

We've been suffering for so long that I can hardly get worked up about it. 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Except this isn't necessarily true. The idea that the crappy players will be gone after being given a chance is only even a little likely if the coach already thinks they're crappy and is merely given them a chance to prove him wrong. I think it's entirely possible....nay, probable, that these players are where they are because the coach values them. There simply any compelling reason to assume Krueger is willing to adversely affect the team for weeks in order for bad players to prove they're bad. 

And THAT calls Krueger's judgment into question.  Which was REALLY hoping we could get to an actual regular season game being played before getting there.

And it comes down to is his judgment flawed or does the GM want too lose and is challenging the coach to show him these guys can win in spite of moves like this?  Neither of which generates warm fuzzies.

[triumph_communes]

So many posters here so adamant about one thing.  It's like they've never been wrong before.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I feel good enough about this team that I don't think a bad October buries their playoff chances. I still think they're a bubble team anyway.

I also don't think they end up having a bad October even with Vlad on the second line for a bit. 

We've been suffering for so long that I can hardly get worked up about it. 

Why?  Legitimately want to know what you see in this squad that makes you believe there's still hope with a bad start.  (Give me some hope, brother.)

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

So many posters here so adamant about one thing.  It's like they've never been wrong before.

We're not wrong about this. 

[darksabre]

Just now, Taro T said:

Why?  Legitimately want to know what you see in this squad that makes you believe there's still hope with a bad start.  (Give me some hope, brother.)

Olofsson and our more mobile defense. And Johansson pushing Mitts to 3C.

I also like Krueger more than a lot of people here seem to. My feeling is that he's the kind of person this team has needed at the head coach position for quite a long time. 

Mostly I just think there are a lot of things that are going to happen league-wide over the next week or two that could leave a lot of teams, including the Sabres, looking different than they do today. 

They are not going to have the same season they had last year. My only real concern is how long it takes for the new goalie coach to make his mark. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Olofsson and our more mobile defense. And Johansson pushing Mitts to 3C.

I also like Krueger more than a lot of people here seem to. My feeling is that he's the kind of person this team has needed at the head coach position for quite a long time. 

Mostly I just think there are a lot of things that are going to happen league-wide over the next week or two that could leave a lot of teams, including the Sabres, looking different than they do today. 

They are not going to have the same season they had last year. My only real concern is how long it takes for the new goalie coach to make his mark. 

I like Krueger but playing Sob at all let alone where he is, is not a defensible decision. He'll either rectify the problem quick or sink. 

[darksabre]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I like Krueger but playing Sob at all let alone where he is, is not a defensible decision. He'll either rectify the problem quick or sink. 

It'll sort itself out.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It'll sort itself out.

The thing that bothers me is that is should have already. Their analytics department either sucks or gets ignored. 

[pi2000]

Never been a fan of Rodrigues game... he skates well, has good hands, and good offensive creativity.   

However, he's weak on the puck and turns it over.    Just not physically stout enough to defend at an NHL level.  

That said, I'm not a fan of Sobotka's game either.     He does little things well, but there's a lot of things he can't do.     

I share the same concerns of others here regarding him playing on the second line, but I'm willing to let this play out.

RK has very defined roles for each player... he wants them to play to their strengths.    Let's give it a chance.

[...]

5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Olofsson and our more mobile defense. And Johansson pushing Mitts to 3C.

I also like Krueger more than a lot of people here seem to. My feeling is that he's the kind of person this team has needed at the head coach position for quite a long time. 

Mostly I just think there are a lot of things that are going to happen league-wide over the next week or two that could leave a lot of teams, including the Sabres, looking different than they do today. 

They are not going to have the same season they had last year. My only real concern is how long it takes for the new goalie coach to make his mark. 

I will certainly give you the first line.

I neither approve of or disapprove of RK.  I need real substance to make that determination, and that substance accrues starting yesterday, but at the moment is way too little to make anything of it.  I certainly like the Koncept of Krueger. 

Not going to bother commenting on what could happen league- or season-wise.  

I really hope all it takes to improve our goalies is an effective coach - and that we have an effective coach.

[darksabre]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

The thing that bothers me is that is should have already. Their analytics department either sucks or gets ignored. 

You're not accounting for the effect of things like cap management, the RFA gridlock, and the movement that is likely to take place these first few weeks on the decisions that need to be made about doing things like waiving a Sobotka or Okposo. If this stuff is going to happen, it's going to happen after the season starts. Imagine the flexibility something like Bogo getting LTIR'd could afford? 

[...]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Their analytics department either sucks or gets ignored. 

This.

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Never been a fan of Rodrigues game... he skates well, has good hands, and good offensive creativity.   

However, he's weak on the puck and turns it over.    Just not physically stout enough to defend at an NHL level.  

That said, I'm not a fan of Sobotka's game either.     He does little things well, but there's a lot of things he can't do.     

I share the same concerns of others here regarding him playing on the second line, but I'm willing to let this play out.

RK has very defined roles for each player... he wants them to play to their strengths.    Let's give it a chance.

I can't believe we're in agreement on something, but here we are lol 

[nfreeman]

34 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

And I don't care in a vacuum about Rodrigues on the bench but we're playing two players worse than him off the bat to start the year. we all had this same conversation a million times last year. 

Like, why the hell do people think we were one of the worst offensive teams out there last year? It wasn't independent of these decisions! It was driven by them!

Well, I think decisions about lower-order items like Sobotka's playing time (14 min per game last year) vs ERod or whoever else might've replaced Sobotka played a small role in their suckitude, but were dwarfed by much more important factors like coaching, goaltending, lousy franchise-wide talent level, tank hangover, etc.

 

24 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Except this isn't necessarily true. The idea that the crappy players will be gone after being given a chance is only even a little likely if the coach already thinks they're crappy and is merely given them a chance to prove him wrong. I think it's entirely possible....nay, probable, that these players are where they are because the coach values them. There simply any compelling reason to assume Krueger is willing to adversely affect the team for weeks in order for bad players to prove they're bad. 

I think the bolded needs to include the concept of "relative to the alternatives."  Playing Sobotka over ERod isn't like playing him over Mike Bossy.

 

14 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I feel good enough about this team that I don't think a bad October buries their playoff chances. I still think they're a bubble team anyway. 

I also don't think they end up having a bad October even with Vlad on the second line for a bit. 

We've been suffering for so long that I can hardly get worked up about it. 

 

11 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Why?  Legitimately want to know what you see in this squad that makes you believe there's still hope with a bad start.  (Give me some hope, brother.)

I'm nowhere near as optimistic as @darksabre about them having a good October, but I am pretty confident that if they have a lousy October, it won't be due to Sobotka playing over ERod.

[...]

3 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

RK has very defined roles for each player... he wants them to play to their strengths.    Let's give it a chance.

The problem is that the thinking on Sobotka is clearly one-dimensional. 

He's there to feed to the puck to Johansson, who is then supposed to find Skinner.  What else could you rely upon Sobotka for?

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, ... said:

The problem is that the thinking on Sobotka is clearly one-dimensional. 

He's there to feed to the puck to Johansson, who is then supposed to find Skinner.  What else could you rely upon Sobotka for?

I hear he makes a mean janssons frestelse

Edited October 1, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Drunkard]

1 minute ago, ... said:

The problem is that the thinking on Sobotka is clearly one-dimensional. 

He's there to feed to the puck to Johansson, who is then supposed to find Skinner.  What else could you rely upon Sobotka for?

He should be cleaning the shitters in the 300's section and that's about it.

[Randall Flagg]

25 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

So many posters here so adamant about one thing.  It's like they've never been wrong before.

This is the most useless comment you can make on a message board designed to discuss and debate sports teams.

 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, ... said:

The problem is that the thinking on Sobotka is clearly one-dimensional. 

He's there to feed to the puck to Johansson, who is then supposed to find Skinner.  What else could you rely upon Sobotka for?

He is?  Have you seen his passing?  And more importantly, has Krueger seen it and actually watched it in game conditions? ?

[WildCard]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

This is the most useless comment you can make on a message board designed to discuss and debate sports teams.

 

"Well if it's so easy why don't you be the GM? These guys have these jobs for a reason, why are you questioning them?"

That, that would be the worst

[pi2000]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I can't believe we're in agreement on something, but here we are lol 

Consider there are infinite parallel universes (there are), in at least one of those universes we agree on something... we live in that universe.

1 minute ago, ... said:

The problem is that the thinking on Sobotka is clearly one-dimensional. 

He's there to feed to the puck to Johansson, who is then supposed to find Skinner.  What else could you rely upon Sobotka for?

Winning hockey isn't just about offense.    What's plagued this team for years is the ability to consistently defend.     They give up way too many scoring chances to be competitive, and it's not just on the defense.    This team needs to get better at creating takeaways, puck protection, gap control, d-zone and neutral zone play, etc... They have guys who can score, they don't have enough guys who can defend.    

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I think decisions about lower-order items like Sobotka's playing time (14 min per game last year) vs ERod or whoever else might've replaced Sobotka played a small role in their suckitude, but were dwarfed by much more important factors like coaching, goaltending, lousy franchise-wide talent level, tank hangover, etc.

 

I think the bolded needs to include the concept of "relative to the alternatives."  Playing Sobotka over ERod isn't like playing him over Mike Bossy.

 

 

I'm nowhere near as optimistic as @darksabre about them having a good October, but I am pretty confident that if they have a lousy October, it won't be due to Sobotka playing over ERod.

For sixty games, we ran Sobotka out with the 4th most ES minutes of any Sabre, as the effective 2C, and collapsed in the standings the entire time on the back of our middle six scoring, which would go stretches of 3 weeks at a time only delivering a single goal or two between two full lines - he himself contributed one goal during the stretch. A goal to end a 42 game goal-less streak with all those minutes. That goal was a dribbler with the goalie pulled while we were down by 2 with 7 seconds left. 

Nobody is saying Vlad dooms the season, or that other factors weren't at play. I've already given the death by a thousand cuts analogy, and Sobotka was the most obvious self-inflicted wound of the last decade. While it doesn't doom the season, it's some level of indictment on somebody. 

[jsb]

 

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Why?  Legitimately want to know what you see in this squad that makes you believe there's still hope with a bad start.  (Give me some hope, brother.)

(Beaulieu-Nelson) GONE -Risto-McCabe-Dahlin (rookie season)-Scandella................ This was our opening night defense

Risto-McCabe a seasoned Dahlin, Miller, Montour, Pilut would be reason #1 why we'll be better

Johansson is better than Berglund, Casey is a year older, Olofsson is better than Pominville, the 2nd and 3rd line is better than anything we had last year in those spots. Team speed appears much better this year. Guys in AHL look closer to being ready than last year also, which should help when the inevitable injuries kick in. Not great but BETTER.