Lines October 1st

[darksabre]

10 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

We have to stop pretending Sobotka isn't a historically bad offensive hockey player that's also below average defensively. 

There are 16 better forwards in the organization. He's not our second best anything.

Okay, but who are you plugging in there today?

[Marions Piazza]

Other than the tank years that we knew were going to be bad, this is the least excited I have ever been for a Sabres season. I have been bummed since last season's collapse, teetering on apathy. I wanted to be excited with a new coach but then I see Sobotka on the 2nd line and Erod an extra. They're making it hard to care, I don't even know if I am renewing my NHL app this year to watch. 

[Kruppstahl]

31 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Man, this team is going to be brutal this year unless one of our goaltenders turns into a superstar. I am about as excited about this year as I was during the tank years. Oh wait, we are still in those years, I forgot.

This is how I feel.  I have no idea why anyone would expect more than very mild, evolutionary growth, maybe.

This roster needed to be ripped open and operated on, and it just never happened.

On top of that, both of our goalies are below average.

The single greatest thing we could have done to improve would have been to bring in a goalie with a substantially better save % than the 2 guys we have, and that never happened.

 

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Is he the second best at getting knocked off the puck?

What about second best at pulling the wool over the eyes of the coaching staff?

What about second best “recent era” whipping boy behind Drew Stafford?

?

Stafford has a better WAR than Sob

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Okay, but who are you plugging in there today?

anything else

[...]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The third line has players properly slotted, and is relatively skilled for a 3rd line. They are very risky defensively, so can they be utilized in a way that they won’t get caved?

Here is a live feed of the third line at practice:

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

Okay, but who are you plugging in there today?

The right handed Evan Rodrigues, who impacts the game positively at both ends of the ice, PKs as well as Vlad in addition to being the catalyst of all SHGs we had last year, and is currently sitting on the bench in place of said historically bad hockey player? 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Faceoffs are cool. 

Fewer than one extra faceoff win per game in exchange for the game Vlad brings? That's not cool. That's exactly why Phil used him the way he did last year that everyone was on board with being a bad idea and a big reason why our team was incapable of generating scoring chances on par with even below average teams. Until Ralph not only decided to do it but put him with Skinner while doing so. Now it's completely fine, because reasons

My reasoning for TRYING Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart is in large part due to Skinner's ability in Carolina to be a 30 goal guy "on his own.". But though he was doing it by himself in large part, he was at least given NHL linemates to keep the other team kind of honest.

Opposing teams will LITERALLY be able to keep a shadow on Skinner and ignore Sobotka and then have the rest of their crew play a 4v4 game against that 2nd line.

Krueger really seems to be taking that " ####Ty player whisperer" thing to heart.

(PLEASE let all of this simply be a placeholder until the IR gets worked out tomorrow or a trade gets made today.  Expect it isn't, but that's at least leaving hope.)

[triumph_communes]

Rodrigues played like trash during the pre-season.  I understand the history, but he failed tryouts this year.  You can't blame the coach for that, you have to blame Rodrigues.

[dudacek]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

The right handed Evan Rodrigues, who impacts the game positively at both ends of the ice, PKs as well as Vlad in addition to being the catalyst of all SHGs we had last year, and is currently sitting on the bench in place of said historically bad hockey player? 

It just seems so common sensical, doesn’t it?

i posted a couple days ago about how “practice Vlad” has fooled three consecutive coaches.

Evan seems to be the flip side of that. Three consecutive coaches have marginalized him only to eventually realize their mistake once the real bullets start flying, even if it was too late.

[jsb]

1st Line.... Scoring line

2nd Line... Putting Vets together and keeping Kyle (turtle-man) Okposo away

3rd Line.... Hoping skill of this line overcomes its shortcomings

4th Line.... PK and stopper line

This site has to hate someone, it might as well be Sobotka until someone else comes along, then you can hate someone else. ERod didn't really show me anything other than the ability to miss the net by 10 feet on his breakaways in preseason. We'll see how long he stays there. I'm guessing when he does play it'll be for someone other than Sobotka, Tage will be his replacement if/when it comes to that. I don't think Risto gets traded until the deadline if at all.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It just seems so common sensical, doesn’t it?

i posted a couple days ago about how “practice Vlad” has fooled three consecutive coaches.

Evan seems to be the flip side of that. Three consecutive coaches have marginalized him only to eventually realize their mistake once the real bullets start flying, even if it was too late.

Some players practice well and some players game well. 

2 minutes ago, jsb said:

1st Line.... Scoring line

2nd Line... Putting Vets together and keeping Kyle (turtle-man) Okposo away

3rd Line.... Hoping skill of this line overcomes its shortcomings

4th Line.... PK and stopper line

This site has to hate someone, it might as well be Sobotka until someone else comes along, then you can hate someone else. ERod didn't really show me anything other than the ability to miss the net by 10 feet on his breakaways in preseason. We'll see how long he stays there. I'm guessing when he does play it'll be for someone other than Sobotka, Tage will be his replacement if/when it comes to that. I don't think Risto gets traded until the deadline if at all.

Things Sob won't have. 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It just seems so common sensical, doesn’t it?

i posted a couple days ago about how “practice Vlad” has fooled three consecutive coaches.

Evan seems to be the flip side of that. Three consecutive coaches have marginalized him only to eventually realize their mistake once the real bullets start flying, even if it was too late.

Yeah, It really is the practice factor. And it's tiring having the same discussion over and over again, isn't it? ?

--------------------------------------------

Like it really isn't new, I can just copy paste stuff from when we were starting to fall off the table last year:

The Sobotka part is in the middle of this post, and he got even worse as the year went on

[darksabre]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The right handed Evan Rodrigues, who impacts the game positively at both ends of the ice, PKs as well as Vlad in addition to being the catalyst of all SHGs we had last year, and is currently sitting on the bench in place of said historically bad hockey player? 

I like erod but I don't think plugging him in there gets Sobotka off the team. He should be able to take a spot on the bottom two lines and hopefully that will happen. But there's really no point subbing erod for Sobotka right now. There's no evaluation to be made from doing that. Sobotka has to wash out in that role. 

 

[triumph_communes]

Just now, darksabre said:

I like erod but I don't think plugging him in there gets Sobotka off the team. He should be able to take a spot on the bottom two lines and hopefully that will happen. But there's really no point subbing erod for Sobotka right now. There's no evaluation to be made from doing that. Sobotka has to wash out in that role. 

 

I actually see Rodrigues taking Okposo's spot before Sobotka's spot.  I think Sobotka's spot is Thompson's spot for the taking.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I like erod but I don't think plugging him in there gets Sobotka off the team. He should be able to take a spot on the bottom two lines and hopefully that will happen. But there's really no point subbing erod for Sobotka right now. There's no evaluation to be made from doing that. Sobotka has to wash out in that role. 

 

Like he did all last year? Or the year b4 in St Louis? 

This is veteran bias plain and simple 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I like erod but I don't think plugging him in there gets Sobotka off the team. He should be able to take a spot on the bottom two lines and hopefully that will happen. But there's really no point subbing erod for Sobotka right now. There's no evaluation to be made from doing that. Sobotka has to wash out in that role. 

 

How is putting up the season he did last year not washing him out of that role? Why are we blank slating this the same way Phil did en route to losing all but one of our first eight games two years ago? 

This team's entire last decade is a story of death by a thousand cuts, and the most obvious self-inflicted wound of the entire time is the one we make a beeline towards doubling down on right away to start this year. It doesn't make any freaking sense.

It's not going to doom us, but why do something so obviously wonky given everything we've seen from October 2017 to now? 

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Like he did all last year? Or the year b4 in St Louis? 

This is veteran bias plain and simple 

It's the way teams do things. He's got a new coach too. And the preseason only means so much to evaluation.

Sobotka's role on this team is second line or bust. If people want him to fail out, this is how that happens. 

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

How is putting up the season he did last year not washing him out of that role? Why are we blank slating this the same way Phil did en route to losing all but one of our first eight games two years ago? 

This team's entire last decade is a story of death by a thousand cuts, and the most obvious self-inflicted wound of the entire time is the one we make a beeline towards doubling down on right away to start this year. It doesn't make any freaking sense.

It's not going to doom us, but why do something so obviously wonky given everything we've seen from October 2017 to now? 

I'm sorry you guys don't like that this is how teams do things.

[Randall Flagg]

And I don't care in a vacuum about Rodrigues on the bench but we're playing two players worse than him off the bat to start the year. we all had this same conversation a million times last year. 

Like, why the hell do people think we were one of the worst offensive teams out there last year? It wasn't independent of these decisions! It was driven by them!

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It's the way teams do things. He's got a new coach too. And the preseason only means so much to evaluation.

Sobotka's role on this team is second line or bust. If people want him to fail out, this is how that happens. 

Yea that's what I said, veteran bs bias. 

[darksabre]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

And I don't care in a vacuum about Rodrigues on the bench but we're playing two players worse than him off the bat to start the year. we all had this same conversation a million times last year. 

Like, why the hell do people think we were one of the worst offensive teams out there last year? It wasn't independent of these decisions! It was driven by them!

And if everything goes the way you think it will, all of this complaining will be moot in about two weeks when the bad players who aren't doing their jobs are off the team.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, darksabre said:

It's the way teams do things. He's got a new coach too. And the preseason only means so much to evaluation.

Sobotka's role on this team is second line or bust. If people want him to fail out, this is how that happens. 

I'm sorry you guys don't like that this is how teams do things.

The bold is so far-fetched and sheer lunacy, though. Why on EARTH is that the case for someone, who is if anything, obviously suited for a depth/defensive role? Who decided second line or bust for him? What is the justification given his skill set as a black hole where plays go to die even when he was effective defensively 3 years ago?

And this ISN'T how teams do things. The only teams playing players this season that finished near Vlad in all of these metrics are us, Detroit (because they don't have anyone else) and Ottawa. And even they are keeping these players either scratched or on bottom pairings/lines. In fact, I'm not even convinced Ottawa is going to use Boedkker this year. Montreal waived Alzner. Kesler won't ever see the ice for Anaheim again. Brassard was punted from Colorado. Braun was punted from the Sharks. Perlini became a regular scratch once his contributions became apparent. Carolina dumped Rask as soon as they could. All of these guys occupy a tier near Sobotka, even though he's in his own by himself essentially. And we put Vlad on line 2 instead. 

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

And if everything goes the way you think it will, all of this complaining will be moot in about two weeks when the bad players who aren't doing their jobs are off the team.

But I was posting this in November last season, and we were still doing the same things in March. I guess I can give Krueger the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't preclude pointing out that it's the same thing that killed our season last year.

[TrueBlueGED]

12 minutes ago, darksabre said:

And if everything goes the way you think it will, all of this complaining will be moot in about two weeks when the bad players who aren't doing their jobs are off the team.

Except this isn't necessarily true. The idea that the crappy players will be gone after being given a chance is only even a little likely if the coach already thinks they're crappy and is merely given them a chance to prove him wrong. I think it's entirely possible....nay, probable, that these players are where they are because the coach values them. There simply any compelling reason to assume Krueger is willing to adversely affect the team for weeks in order for bad players to prove they're bad. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The bold is so far-fetched and sheer lunacy, though. Why on EARTH is that the case for someone, who is if anything, obviously suited for a depth/defensive role? Who decided second line or bust for him? What is the justification given his skill set as a black hole where plays go to die even when he was effective defensively 3 years ago?

And this ISN'T how teams do things. The only teams playing players this season that finished near Vlad in all of these metrics are us, Detroit (because they don't have anyone else) and Ottawa. And even they are keeping these players either scratched or on bottom pairings/lines. In fact, I'm not even convinced Ottawa is going to use Boedkker this year. Montreal waived Alzner. Kesler won't ever see the ice for Anaheim again. Brassard was punted from Colorado. Braun was punted from the Sharks. Perlini became a regular scratch once his contributions became apparent. Carolina dumped Rask as soon as they could. All of these guys occupy a tier near Sobotka, even though he's in his own by himself essentially. And we put Vlad on line 2 instead. 

But I was posting this in November last season, and we were still doing the same things in March. I guess I can give Krueger the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't preclude pointing out that it's the same thing that killed our season last year.

Exactly. All those other teams learned from their mistakes to some degree but here in Buffalo we promoted Sob because he was mediocre in 1 preseason game instead of complete *****. I'll give them 1 game to figure this out. That's it. 

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The bold is so far-fetched and sheer lunacy, though. Why on EARTH is that the case for someone, who is if anything, obviously suited for a depth/defensive role? Who decided second line or bust for him? What is the justification given his skill set as a black hole where plays go to die even when he was effective defensively 3 years ago?

And this ISN'T how teams do things. The only teams playing players this season that finished near Vlad in all of these metrics are us, Detroit (because they don't have anyone else) and Ottawa. And even they are keeping these players either scratched or on bottom pairings/lines. In fact, I'm not even convinced Ottawa is going to use Boedkker this year. Montreal waived Alzner. Kesler won't ever see the ice for Anaheim again. Brassard was punted from Colorado. Braun was punted from the Sharks. Perlini became a regular scratch once his contributions became apparent. Carolina dumped Rask as soon as they could. All of these guys occupy a tier near Sobotka, even though he's in his own by himself essentially. And we put Vlad on line 2 instead. 

But I was posting this in November last season, and we were still doing the same things in March. I guess I can give Krueger the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't preclude pointing out that it's the same thing that killed our season last year.

The thing is, Ralph Krueger doesn't read your posts lol 

Might as well just let this play out, right? If you're right then it shouldn't take long for it to get fixed unless you already believe that Krueger is a lost cause. 

4 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Except this isn't necessarily true. The idea that the crappy players will be gone after being given a chance is only even a little likely if the coach already thinks they're crappy and is merely given them a chance to prove him wrong. I think it's entirely possible....nay, probable, that these players are where they are because the coach values them. There simply any compelling reason to assume Krueger is willing to adversely affect the team for weak in order for bad players to prove they're bad. 

So start the fire Krueger thread then. 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, darksabre said:

And if everything goes the way you think it will, all of this complaining will be moot in about two weeks when the bad players who aren't doing their jobs are off the team.

And in 2 weeks, a team expected at BEST to possibly, maybe sneak into the playoffs and more than likely at BEST to just barely miss the playoffs will be how many points out of that playoff spot?

This decision does nothing to alleviate my concern that Botterill WANTS to miss the playoffs this year and land 1 more top 10 prospect before switching into 'let's try to make the playoffs ' mode.

LT, that might even make sense, but it does nothing to make ANYONE actually want to pay to see this product today.  And this will be the 3rd year in a row that the GM has been willing to flush the current season.  Getting seriously close to Calloway 's level of frustration.