Sobotka and the 2nd line

[Andrew Amerk]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

I'd love to see someone significantly better than either 17 or 71. 

I’d love to see a true 2nd line winger with them also, but we don’t have one available, and I don’t think Botts is going to be quick to trade for one after this flying start. 

I just think 71 is more talented on both sides of the puck than 17. 

I should also add that I’d like to see a better winger for the Sherry and Mitts line as well. Vesey has been a floater on that line also, so far. 

[Weave]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

He hasn’t done anything egregiously wrong, yet, but that doesn’t mean he belongs there - even if we have won just 2 games easily with the current formula. 

My view is that Skinner and Johansson are two talented players carrying him along so far, and they’d be even more dynamic with someone who contributes rather than coasts along. 

I would love to see what ERod could bring to that line instead. 

I don't think Erod has the skill set Kreuger wants on that line.  Sobotka is certainly less than ideal, but I think he fills a role that is important for Kreuger.  Erod would not fill that role.

 

[Brawndo]

EROD’s Fore and Back Checking Skills are better than Vlad’s that might come in useful in Krueger’s System. We will have to see what happens when he gets into a game 

[PerreaultForever]

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll give him credit though, he's not completely tanking that line. Still we need to find a rw for them. 

I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but you also can't get everything in one year. This year it is looking like maybe we got quite a lot added, and it's also looking like trading Risto for a right winger would be folly. Kreuger seems to have realized that Risto is best as a gritty annoying (even dirty) D man sort of an Ulf Samuelson type, and not as an offensive Phil Housley type. He has offensive skills, but he is much better as a guy who stops and annoys top forwards from the other side.  

Next year, I fully expect Asplund or Cozens to be on that line instead of Sobodka but for now, he will do, as I think trading Risto or the future away for a good RW or 2C now would be a big mistake for the development of this team (and nobody's going to trade anything good for some cast off package of Bogo etc. before anyone suggests that) . 

That is all, for now, Kreuger seems to have everyone in pretty good spots to get the most possible out of this lineup. 

 

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but you also can't get everything in one year. This year it is looking like maybe we got quite a lot added, and it's also looking like trading Risto for a right winger would be folly. Kreuger seems to have realized that Risto is best as a gritty annoying (even dirty) D man sort of an Ulf Samuelson type, and not as an offensive Phil Housley type. He has offensive skills, but he is much better as a guy who stops and annoys top forwards from the other side.  

Next year, I fully expect Asplund or Cozens to be on that line instead of Sobodka but for now, he will do, as I think trading Risto or the future away for a good RW or 2C now would be a big mistake for the development of this team (and nobody's going to trade anything good for some cast off package of Bogo etc. before anyone suggests that) . 

That is all, for now, Kreuger seems to have everyone in pretty good spots to get the most possible out of this lineup. 

 

What if Risto looks so improved these last few, the Jets D looks so bad these last few, that Cheveldayoff calls and offers Ehlers for Ristolainen? What say you?

We are laughing with a:

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Johansson - Ehlers 

...top 6

Edited October 7, 2019 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What if Risto looks so improved these last few, the Jets D looks so bad these last few, that Cheveldayoff calls and offers Ehlers for Ristolainen? What say you?

We are laughing with a:

Olofsson - EIchel - Reinhart

Skinner - Johansson - Ehlers 

...top 6

How is Ehlers defensively?

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

How is Ehlers defensively?

I think he's defensively conscious. He's close to a Reinhart level offensive talent, though. And he's a playmaker, I think him and Johansson would work wonders with Skinner. Probably for naught though, still doubt Winnipeg trades him. But their D does looks awful. 

[Andrew Amerk]

Where is our resident Jets fan @Ducky to weigh in?

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Where is our resident Jets fan @Ducky to weigh in?

Ducky wouldn't want to give up Ehlers for Risto, think he may have even mentioned that. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

What if Risto looks so improved these last few, the Jets D looks so bad these last few, that Cheveldayoff calls and offers Ehlers for Ristolainen? What say you?

We are laughing with a:

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Johansson - Ehlers 

...top 6

Honestly, in the summer I would have said yes, but right now I'd say no.

Not sure if I've ever written it here in Sabrespace but I've been thinking for quite a while that Risto needs to be retaught how to be a D man and that he has been used incorrectly for years. His grit and sandpaper side (which we've seen on occasion in the past - thinking of the Tampa game from last year) needs to be brought to the forefront and if it is, he will in fact become a dominant D man.

The D looks really good right now. Miller is a much better player than I realized and the units are good enough that Dahlin can be stepped back a little to work on the defensive side of his game properly so that he doesn't become another ruined young guy but develops into a Norris winning one as a complete player. You take Risto away from this team though and you are going to find that, especially in the second half of the season (and playoffs should we get there) we will not be tough enough and will get run out of the rink. Just think about that physical sequence in the NJ game where they tried to shift the game by coming out hitting and him and McCabe belted them back and ended that entire idea.

I'd have no problem adding Ehlers, but not if it means losing any key player, and I consider Risto one of those. 

[Thorner]

48 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Honestly, in the summer I would have said yes, but right now I'd say no.

Not sure if I've ever written it here in Sabrespace but I've been thinking for quite a while that Risto needs to be retaught how to be a D man and that he has been used incorrectly for years. His grit and sandpaper side (which we've seen on occasion in the past - thinking of the Tampa game from last year) needs to be brought to the forefront and if it is, he will in fact become a dominant D man.

The D looks really good right now. Miller is a much better player than I realized and the units are good enough that Dahlin can be stepped back a little to work on the defensive side of his game properly so that he doesn't become another ruined young guy but develops into a Norris winning one as a complete player. You take Risto away from this team though and you are going to find that, especially in the second half of the season (and playoffs should we get there) we will not be tough enough and will get run out of the rink. Just think about that physical sequence in the NJ game where they tried to shift the game by coming out hitting and him and McCabe belted them back and ended that entire idea.

I'd have no problem adding Ehlers, but not if it means losing any key player, and I consider Risto one of those. 

Unfortunately there’s no chance we are getting Ehlers without. 

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but you also can't get everything in one year. This year it is looking like maybe we got quite a lot added, and it's also looking like trading Risto for a right winger would be folly. Kreuger seems to have realized that Risto is best as a gritty annoying (even dirty) D man sort of an Ulf Samuelson type, and not as an offensive Phil Housley type. He has offensive skills, but he is much better as a guy who stops and annoys top forwards from the other side.  

Next year, I fully expect Asplund or Cozens to be on that line instead of Sobodka but for now, he will do, as I think trading Risto or the future away for a good RW or 2C now would be a big mistake for the development of this team (and nobody's going to trade anything good for some cast off package of Bogo etc. before anyone suggests that) . 

That is all, for now, Kreuger seems to have everyone in pretty good spots to get the most possible out of this lineup. 

 

No he won't do. I have said nothing of trading Risto although I think that option should remain open. Bogo is injured, you literally couldn't trade him.  

Sobotka is bad. 1 shift in which a defender blew his assignment to cover Sobotka doesn't make him useful. You can attempt to gloat all you want, that's fine but he's a terrible offensive driver with moderate defensive skills. They need a replacement for him if they plan on making the playoffs or making noise in them. It will be easier for a lot of teams once the figure out you can shade away from Sobotka and just lock down MoJo and Skinner. 

After 2 games the Sabres have not truly been tested. The dominated long stretches against Pittsburgh and thoroughly outplayed NJ. What happens in a closer match where you actually need Sobotka to consistently do things? 

My guess is that at some point this season Sobotka will be replaced. Erod, Tage and others are waiting in the wings. Hopefully they prove themselves sooner rather than later. 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Honestly, in the summer I would have said yes, but right now I'd say no.

Not sure if I've ever written it here in Sabrespace but I've been thinking for quite a while that Risto needs to be retaught how to be a D man and that he has been used incorrectly for years. His grit and sandpaper side (which we've seen on occasion in the past - thinking of the Tampa game from last year) needs to be brought to the forefront and if it is, he will in fact become a dominant D man.

The D looks really good right now. Miller is a much better player than I realized and the units are good enough that Dahlin can be stepped back a little to work on the defensive side of his game properly so that he doesn't become another ruined young guy but develops into a Norris winning one as a complete player. You take Risto away from this team though and you are going to find that, especially in the second half of the season (and playoffs should we get there) we will not be tough enough and will get run out of the rink. Just think about that physical sequence in the NJ game where they tried to shift the game by coming out hitting and him and McCabe belted them back and ended that entire idea.

I'd have no problem adding Ehlers, but not if it means losing any key player, and I consider Risto one of those. 

This idea gets used so often and yet we see teams win the cup with lots of grit and with little grit. Mental toughness and compete are more important than being worried about "getting run" which happens so rarely now. If you think it is a problem we should have traded for Milan Lucic. 

[Doohicksie]

On 10/6/2019 at 1:27 AM, PerreaultForever said:

For all the Sobodka haters..........in the New Jersey game, on Skinner's goal, did you notice how he crossed through the middle, basically running a pick, that took 2 defenders with him leaving Skinner wide open to grab Johanson's perfect pass?   Just sayin'  ☺️ 

So you're saying he's good at getting in the way?  I can buy into that.

[LGR4GM]

Here's the thing, Kreuger is going to use Sobotka because he values his defensive abilities. I get the impression that he wants that on that line which is fine. At some point this season though, they need to be looking for an upgrade, probably internally, to replace Sob. 

[Taro T]

Things get interesting when Montour comes back provided the team hasn't lost a couple more D-men. 

At that point Jokiharju probably is the odd man out.  Rather than wasting him in the press box, and Sobotka on line 2, a trade of D for top 6 becomes plausible again.  Not even that I particularly want Risto gone; was fully on board with keeping him in a reduced role prior to the off-season D moves; but they have a surplus in 1 spot and a need elsewhere, so ...

Of course, Botterill seems to be perfectly fine with letting things run their course, so wtf knows.

[LGR4GM]

Also what happens when Pilut comes back. Then you have both Pilut and Montour just sitting around potentially? I still some type of trade is on the horizon. 

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Also what happens when Pilut comes back. Then you have both Pilut and Montour just sitting around potentially? I still some type of trade is on the horizon. 

More likely, Pilut and Jokiharju, with Gilmour back in Ra-cha-cha.  Or, somebody else gets nicked up and they stay at 7 or 8 healthy bodies.

It seems OBVIOUS a trade will get made soon.  But pretty sure we said that last year around the holidays when Berglund freed up ~$4MM in cap space and ensured they were lacking at least a 2C.

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

More likely, Pilut and Jokiharju, with Gilmour back in Ra-cha-cha.  Or, somebody else gets nicked up and they stay at 7 or 8 healthy bodies.

It seems OBVIOUS a trade will get made soon.  But pretty sure we said that last year around the holidays when Berglund freed up ~$4MM in cap space and ensured they were lacking at least a 2C.

Yeah, I think anyone who can go back to Rochester will go back to Rochester.

[dudacek]

All the reasons for trading Risto still stand when we get healthy, but boy oh boy, would I miss what he’s given us these first two games. 

Also worried it’s something we will be looking for come April if April ever becomes a thing again.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If Risto is excelling with RK the likelihood of him being traded goes to zero.  

I don’t know what they do when Montour gets healthy but    If the team is going well and pairings are working Jbot isn’t going of upset the apple cart.  Most likely    Scandy gets traded.

Remember Risto is locked it at a very reasonable rate in today’s NHL.

Edited October 7, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens is in Lethbridge 

He and Pekar will be a nice upgrade to 17 & 21.  Too bad it's happening next season at the earliest. Maybe we can get a rental or two at the deadline. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by inkman

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, inkman said:

He and Pekar will be a nice upgrade to 17 & 21.  Too bad it's happening next season at the earliest. Maybe we can get a rental or two at the deadline. 

Pekar will need Rochester. Cozens will need... next summer and then I would guess he is good to go. His game transfers really well to the pro's. 

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If Risto is excelling with RK the likelihood of him being traded goes to zero.  

I don’t know what they do when Montour gets healthy but    If the team is going well and pairings are working Jbot isn’t going of upset the apple cart.  Most likely    Scandy gets traded.

Remember Risto is locked it at a very reasonable rate in today’s NHL.

True but Miller and Joki are also locked up for reasonable rates. Montour is the only one needing a new deal on the right side. It is an interesting problem to have though. 

[CallawaySabres]

Can we please stop trying to trade Risto! His contract is incredible and he is only going to get better as he is going to be used in  more suitable role. Good luck trying to replace the type of game that he offers.....

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Can we please stop trying to trade Risto! His contract is incredible and he is only going to get better as he is going to be used in  more suitable role. Good luck trying to replace the type of game that he offers.....

There are so many posts here that shed light on why we could trade Risto I have no desire to rehash it. We could trade him if we wanted and replace what he does on the ice. That doesn't mean we have too.  

Edited October 7, 2019 by LGR4GM