Sabres Fan in NS Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 9:36 AM, Eleven said: Wait--are you saying that Ron Francis is a top ten player of all time? Number 5 on the all time scoring list. A key role on the first 2 Penguin cup teams. Dominant in a long career at a point per game over his whole career. Not quite a point per game in his playoff career = top 10 all time to me. If he had come to the Sabres instead of going back to Hartford / Carolina in 1998/99 I really feel that we would have had our cup in the spring of 1999.
#freejame Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 50 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Number 5 on the all time scoring list. A key role on the first 2 Penguin cup teams. Dominant in a long career at a point per game over his whole career. Not quite a point per game in his playoff career = top 10 all time to me. If he had come to the Sabres instead of going back to Hartford / Carolina in 1998/99 I really feel that we would have had our cup in the spring of 1999. Was Buffalo courting Ron Francis at that time?
Sabres Fan in NS Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, #freejame said: Was Buffalo courting Ron Francis at that time? Yes. If one can believe the reports. I believe the Sabres had made a fantastic offer, but he decided to go 'home' instead. He was UFA at the time and Pittsburgh was not going to re-sign him. 1
shrader Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Number 5 on the all time scoring list. A key role on the first 2 Penguin cup teams. Dominant in a long career at a point per game over his whole career. Not quite a point per game in his playoff career = top 10 all time to me. If he had come to the Sabres instead of going back to Hartford / Carolina in 1998/99 I really feel that we would have had our cup in the spring of 1999. The problem is that for the majority of his career, he was never the best player on his own team. Then there's the Pittsburgh stretch where he wasn't even the second best. He's also 4th all time in games played, which inflated his career points total. Averaging over a point per game is a nice career stat, but you're overvaluing it. He's currently tied in that number with Pat Kane and I'm sure most would be far more impressed with the guy who put up that number in today's game. And here's another reason why that points per game stat isn't as impressive as one might think. The guy who is one spot ahead of Kane and Francis on the points per game ranking? Ziggy Palffy (tied with Alex Mogilny, strangely enough).
LTS Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, shrader said: The problem is that for the majority of his career, he was never the best player on his own team. Then there's the Pittsburgh stretch where he wasn't even the second best. He's also 4th all time in games played, which inflated his career points total. Averaging over a point per game is a nice career stat, but you're overvaluing it. He's currently tied in that number with Pat Kane and I'm sure most would be far more impressed with the guy who put up that number in today's game. And here's another reason why that points per game stat isn't as impressive as one might think. The guy who is one spot ahead of Kane and Francis on the points per game ranking? Ziggy Palffy (tied with Alex Mogilny, strangely enough). I think being a PPG player is impressive. It doesn't translate to being on a winning team however. Palffy is a perfect example of that. He was constantly playing on teams that were never going to go anywhere. His teams made the playoffs 3 times (The Kings, 99-00, 00-01, 01-02). Those teams lost to the Avs or Red Wings in each of those years. That said, he also played during the clutch and grab era right? So it seems like it might be even more impressive in that era.
shrader Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, LTS said: I think being a PPG player is impressive. It doesn't translate to being on a winning team however. Palffy is a perfect example of that. He was constantly playing on teams that were never going to go anywhere. His teams made the playoffs 3 times (The Kings, 99-00, 00-01, 01-02). Those teams lost to the Avs or Red Wings in each of those years. That said, he also played during the clutch and grab era right? So it seems like it might be even more impressive in that era. I have no issue with Palffy, he's just not a guy who would ever enter any discussion of the greatest players of all time. 1
Randall Flagg Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 A leafs fan posted this on hfboards: Hey I just heard a bit of a bomb regarding 2017 Buffalo I thought I'd toss out there. Carlo Colaiacovo does a morning TSN radio show now. He just mentioned that an unnamed friend called him during 2017 free agency to discuss whether he should take Buffalo's offer of 7 x 7.5. He then said the guy took 4 x 6.5 and will never recoop that money. This has to be Shattenkirk. I'm sure this is podcasted if anyone cares. If this is true, I think you got lucky! I like the look of your D going forward and Shatty for another 5 x 7.5 is boat anchor that could have crippled these moves.
WildCard Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 He hasn't been nearly as good in NYR as he was thought to be, so I'm pretty happy with this. Once we move Risto I honestly love our D core setup right now; do wish we had a legit #2 LHD and a nice prospect in the pipeline, but Jokiharju and Dahlin are so young anyways 1
#freejame Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, shrader said: The problem is that for the majority of his career, he was never the best player on his own team. Then there's the Pittsburgh stretch where he wasn't even the second best. He's also 4th all time in games played, which inflated his career points total. Averaging over a point per game is a nice career stat, but you're overvaluing it. He's currently tied in that number with Pat Kane and I'm sure most would be far more impressed with the guy who put up that number in today's game. And here's another reason why that points per game stat isn't as impressive as one might think. The guy who is one spot ahead of Kane and Francis on the points per game ranking? Ziggy Palffy (tied with Alex Mogilny, strangely enough). Ziggy was an absolute stud who really got derailed by injuries. Not top ten of all-time, but certainly a premier player of his time when his health cooperated.
dudacek Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, WildCard said: He hasn't been nearly as good in NYR as he was thought to be, so I'm pretty happy with this. Once we move Risto I honestly love our D core setup right now; do wish we had a legit #2 LHD and a nice prospect in the pipeline, but Jokiharju and Dahlin are so young anyways Prospects never go as planned, but does anyone remember a more promising collection of young Sabre D? Dahlin (19) Jokiharju (20) Johnson (18) Borgen (22) Samuelsson (19) Laaksonen (20) Bryson (21) Fitzgerald (22) That’s such a good mix of styles, floors and ceilings. Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe and McNabb looked good on paper too. McKee, Sarich, Tallinder and Kalinin maybe? 3
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, dudacek said: Prospects never go as planned, but does anyone remember a more promising collection of young Sabre D? Dahlin (19) Jokiharju (20) Johnson (18) Borgen (22) Samuelsson (19) Laaksonen (20) Bryson (21) Fitzgerald (22) That’s such a good mix of styles, floors and ceilings. Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe and McNabb looked good on paper too. McKee, Sarich, Tallinder and Kalinin maybe? You forgot Pilut. I would've loved to add Moritz Seider to that group as I was very hopeful he would be available when our 2nd pick was still looking like it was going to be in the "teens". I was shocked that he went before our 1st pick, good for him. I'll probably follow his career somewhat to see how he does. Edited July 23, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again 1
WildCard Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 Ranked below Edmonton and Minnesota is pretty funny https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27239491/nhl-power-rankings-rating-every-team-heading-2019-20
Thorner Posted July 23, 2019 Report Posted July 23, 2019 8 hours ago, WildCard said: He hasn't been nearly as good in NYR as he was thought to be, so I'm pretty happy with this. Once we move Risto I honestly love our D core setup right now; do wish we had a legit #2 LHD and a nice prospect in the pipeline, but Jokiharju and Dahlin are so young anyways I quite like the look of Laaksonen.
shrader Posted July 24, 2019 Report Posted July 24, 2019 I noticed this report from yesterday on TSN about Nashville signing Colton Sissons to a 7 year deal for a total of $20 million dollars. That has to be the smallest amount of money we've seen for one of these long term deals. I don't remember every seeing one of the non-top guys locking up for 7 years.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 24, 2019 Report Posted July 24, 2019 30 minutes ago, shrader said: I noticed this report from yesterday on TSN about Nashville signing Colton Sissons to a 7 year deal for a total of $20 million dollars. That has to be the smallest amount of money we've seen for one of these long term deals. I don't remember every seeing one of the non-top guys locking up for 7 years. Must be a Nashville thing. They signed Jarnkrok a few years back to a 6-year deal for low money.
triumph_communes Posted July 28, 2019 Report Posted July 28, 2019 Interesting that nearly every team avoided arbitration this year or only had one of their players go through it, meanwhile Botterill has forced one through it and has three more expected to as well.
Zamboni Posted July 28, 2019 Report Posted July 28, 2019 5 hours ago, triumph_communes said: Interesting that nearly every team avoided arbitration this year or only had one of their players go through it, meanwhile Botterill has forced one through it and has three more expected to as well. I don’t read too much into that. Every year is different for every team in the league.
Kruppstahl Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 12:13 PM, dudacek said: Prospects never go as planned, but does anyone remember a more promising collection of young Sabre D? Dahlin (19) Jokiharju (20) Johnson (18) Borgen (22) Samuelsson (19) Laaksonen (20) Bryson (21) Fitzgerald (22) That’s such a good mix of styles, floors and ceilings. Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe and McNabb looked good on paper too. McKee, Sarich, Tallinder and Kalinin maybe? I was going to write something snarky along the lines of the bolded. LOL. The future always looks bright for all fans of all teams, especially the further out you move it.
sweetlou Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brawndo said: WAY TOO MUCH FOR A GOALIE!!! They are already getting up the cap for next year!!! They have $67 million on books and only 13 players signed.. 7 forwards(not including Point), 4 forwards and 2 goalies. They definitely need to be making some moves...who waives NTC to be shipped out?
French Collection Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, sweetlou said: WAY TOO MUCH FOR A GOALIE!!! They are already getting up the cap for next year!!! They have $67 million on books and only 13 players signed.. 7 forwards(not including Point), 4 forwards and 2 goalies. They definitely need to be making some moves...who waives NTC to be shipped out? The on going challenge of keeping a good team together in a cap world. Stevie Y may have wanted out for more reasons than just getting back to Detroit. 1
darksabre Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Yikes. That's a lot of term and money. He is only 25, but still. In a league where you can still win Cups with hot rookie goalies making 850K, it just seems ridiculous to pay one goalie that much money. 1
... Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, French Collection said: The on going challenge of keeping a good team together in a cap world. Stevie Y may have wanted out for more reasons than just getting back to Detroit. You may be on to something.
dudacek Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 Wow! The Lightning don’t always get freebies! That puts him behind just Price and Bobrovsky. He will be the 3rd highest paid keeper in the league, a million more than #4 Lundqvist and 2.5 more than Rask. It also ties him with Kuch as the Lightning’s highest-paid player. I really like him, but when you see what Hedman and Stamkos are making and all the long-term, no-trade deals their 2nd-tier guys, have, AND the fact they have to re-sign Point this year and Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev next year... Plus they have holes in their D and they want to get tougher? Something has to give. There is a big move - or moves - coming in T Bay. 1
TrueBlueGED Posted July 29, 2019 Report Posted July 29, 2019 30 minutes ago, dudacek said: Wow! The Lightning don’t always get freebies! That puts him behind just Price and Bobrovsky. He will be the 3rd highest paid keeper in the league, a million more than #4 Lundqvist and 2.5 more than Rask. It also ties him with Kuch as the Lightning’s highest-paid player. I really like him, but when you see what Hedman and Stamkos are making and all the long-term, no-trade deals their 2nd-tier guys, have, AND the fact they have to re-sign Point this year and Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev next year... Plus they have holes in their D and they want to get tougher? Something has to give. There is a big move - or moves - coming in T Bay. That was my first legitimate reaction. First major extension negotiated by Brisebois, first Tampa contract that looks less than team-friendly, to say the least.
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