Around the NHL Summer 2019

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

 

Shocking that a team sort of run by Don Waddell might be a mess.

[WildCard]

Just now, Taro T said:

Shocking that a team sort of run by Don Waddell might be a mess.

I think it's more so the owner to be honest, but I'm sure Waddell doesn't help at all

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Shocking that a team sort of run by Don Waddell might be a mess.

Looks like Ronnie Francis got out just in time.

[North Buffalo]

any guys Sabres might be interested in next year?

or to trade Risto for?

[WildCard]

Somethings gotta give

[shrader]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

I think it's more so the owner to be honest, but I'm sure Waddell doesn't help at all

Waddell only has the job because of the owner.

[Derrico]

A buddy I work with put a great list together.  The jist of it is there has been so little movement because there is essentially too little cap space available around the league to accommodate the likely asks from the remaining prominent RFA's and UFA's.  I wish there was a way too attach the file but I'm not sure how and it doesn't copy over well.

He went through a cap friendly list similar to what Wildcard listed and placed the RFA's outstanding and added a conservative estimate for each salary.  Then looked at guys like Gardiner and other free agents left and there is just no space.  In past years teams would go over the cap in the summer and find an Arizona or Ottawa to take their hit at some point.   Those teams are now running out of cap space.  I don't think the NHL anticipated what these RFA's would be getting on their first deal out of ELC.  I bet you still see a couple more deals that look crazy one sided but it's to a free up a team over the cap.

I could see compliance buyout allowance coming at some point.

 

[darksabre]

13 minutes ago, Derrico said:

A buddy I work with put a great list together.  The jist of it is there has been so little movement because there is essentially too little cap space available around the league to accommodate the likely asks from the remaining prominent RFA's and UFA's.  I wish there was a way too attach the file but I'm not sure how and it doesn't copy over well.

He went through a cap friendly list similar to what Wildcard listed and placed the RFA's outstanding and added a conservative estimate for each salary.  Then looked at guys like Gardiner and other free agents left and there is just no space.  In past years teams would go over the cap in the summer and find an Arizona or Ottawa to take their hit at some point.   Those teams are now running out of cap space.  I don't think the NHL anticipated what these RFA's would be getting on their first deal out of ELC.  I bet you still see a couple more deals that look crazy one sided but it's to a free up a team over the cap.

I could see compliance buyout allowance coming at some point.

 

Interesting. So essentially, players have become more expensive too quickly.

[Derrico]

58 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Interesting. So essentially, players have become more expensive too quickly.

Yes that's right.  The next collective agreement could get ugly.

I'm sure teams are projecting out their lineups over a few years and have models where they slot guys in terms of salaries.  Nobody has likely slotted these big RFA's appropriately.  That just trickles down to everything.

[WildCard]

 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Derrico said:

A buddy I work with put a great list together.  The jist of it is there has been so little movement because there is essentially too little cap space available around the league to accommodate the likely asks from the remaining prominent RFA's and UFA's.  I wish there was a way too attach the file but I'm not sure how and it doesn't copy over well.

He went through a cap friendly list similar to what Wildcard listed and placed the RFA's outstanding and added a conservative estimate for each salary.  Then looked at guys like Gardiner and other free agents left and there is just no space.  In past years teams would go over the cap in the summer and find an Arizona or Ottawa to take their hit at some point.   Those teams are now running out of cap space.  I don't think the NHL anticipated what these RFA's would be getting on their first deal out of ELC.  I bet you still see a couple more deals that look crazy one sided but it's to a free up a team over the cap.

I could see compliance buyout allowance coming at some point.

 

I just hope a bit of movement starts soon so the Sabres don't have a ready-made excuse for why they "had" to settle for another year with an incomplete roster and the accompanying low expectations. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Thorny

[Cheektorado]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

Interesting. So essentially, players have become more expensive too quickly.

It seems to me it's too many big contracts for bad/mediocre players.  Once a team overpays it ripples throughout the league.

There is no good way to get rid of a bad contract.

1 hour ago, Derrico said:

Yes that's right.  The next collective agreement could get ugly.

I'm sure teams are projecting out their lineups over a few years and have models where they slot guys in terms of salaries.  Nobody has likely slotted these big RFA's appropriately.  That just trickles down to everything.

IMO there is too many "salary dumps" in the league.  It messes with the guys that are worth more money.

A better "team friendly" buyout may be needed for the next CBA.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

4 hours ago, Cheektorado said:

It seems to me it's too many big contracts for bad/mediocre players.  Once a team overpays it ripples throughout the league.

There is no good way to get rid of a bad contract.

IMO there is too many "salary dumps" in the league.  It messes with the guys that are worth more money.

A better "team friendly" buyout may be needed for the next CBA.

Why should the GM's have an easier way out of their F-ups? Maybe they should become tougher negotiators. Or maybe the players will realize that they are eventually gonna price themselves (or others) out of a job. $81.5M for 23 roster players is an average of $3.5M/player....between Eichel and Skinner they get paid almost 6 roster spots. To put it in minimum wage perspective....a worker making NYS minimum wage (11.10/hr) would have to work almost 3500 yrs to make what Eichel will make on his 10yr contract.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

To put it in minimum wage perspective....a worker making NYS minimum wage (11.10/hr) would have to work almost 3500 yrs to make what Eichel will make on his 10yr contract.

So?

[Neo]

8 hours ago, Derrico said:

A buddy I work with put a great list together.  The jist of it is there has been so little movement because there is essentially too little cap space available around the league to accommodate the likely asks from the remaining prominent RFA's and UFA's.  I wish there was a way too attach the file but I'm not sure how and it doesn't copy over well.

He went through a cap friendly list similar to what Wildcard listed and placed the RFA's outstanding and added a conservative estimate for each salary.  Then looked at guys like Gardiner and other free agents left and there is just no space.  In past years teams would go over the cap in the summer and find an Arizona or Ottawa to take their hit at some point.   Those teams are now running out of cap space.  I don't think the NHL anticipated what these RFA's would be getting on their first deal out of ELC.  I bet you still see a couple more deals that look crazy one sided but it's to a free up a team over the cap.

I could see compliance buyout allowance coming at some point.

 

Ughhh ...  I can see a Leaf/Marner cap problem going away with the next CBA.  In other words, they gulp, sign him at $11 million, and then rejoice when the cap fortuitously makes the problem go away.  Oh, the conspiracy theories !

[sweetlou]

3 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Why should the GM's have an easier way out of their F-ups? Maybe they should become tougher negotiators. Or maybe the players will realize that they are eventually gonna price themselves (or others) out of a job. $81.5M for 23 roster players is an average of $3.5M/player....between Eichel and Skinner they get paid almost 6 roster spots. To put it in minimum wage perspective....a worker making NYS minimum wage (11.10/hr) would have to work almost 3500 yrs to make what Eichel will make on his 10yr contract.

The problem with the NHL is the change over in GM's so quick, even 3-5 years is not enough to turn a team around.    GM's have made lucrative deals to entice players, especially UFA's to their team to stay competitive.  When the players turns out to be a bust or overpaid for what they bring to the table, GM's get in trouble.  Most of those GM's get fired and then leave the mess to the next GM.  

[Randall Flagg]

Bob McKenzie is retiring after this season.

Not sure how that'll affect his tweeting of stuff about to break.

[jsb]

As for the salary crunch, they should allow you to go over the cap to keep your own guys but also have a max cap you can't go over without penalties. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, jsb said:

As for the salary crunch, they should allow you to go over the cap to keep your own guys but also have a max cap you can't go over without penalties. 

So, a 'soft cap' with 'luxury tax' if you go over, like in the NBA?

[French Collection]

38 minutes ago, jsb said:

As for the salary crunch, they should allow you to go over the cap to keep your own guys but also have a max cap you can't go over without penalties. 

How about a cap for the guys you have drafted and developed and a cap for other team's UFAs and RFAs.

For example, if you had 14 guys on your roster that were yours, your cap is X. If you have 10 guys your cap is lower. There could be significant penalties in a luxury tax tacked on.

This would cause most franchises to emphasize draft and develop + free agents from Europe and NCAA.

If a team wants to load up for a Cup run they will pay into a pool shared by the rest. I think there would still need to be a limit for an overall cap so the rich teams don't go crazy.

The NHLPA would be against this due to fewer big UFA deals, but there could be bigger deals for teams keeping their franchise players.

Just trying to think outside of the box.

[Cheektorado]

18 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Why should the GM's have an easier way out of their F-ups? Maybe they should become tougher negotiators. Or maybe the players will realize that they are eventually gonna price themselves (or others) out of a job. $81.5M for 23 roster players is an average of $3.5M/player....between Eichel and Skinner they get paid almost 6 roster spots. To put it in minimum wage perspective....a worker making NYS minimum wage (11.10/hr) would have to work almost 3500 yrs to make what Eichel will make on his 10yr contract.

You hit both of the points.  Yes, GM's F-up with bad contracts but the reason they are bad is that the player signed a contract under the expectations that he is deserving of the money that he signed for.  It seems a viscous cycle in Hockey.  The 2 ways of getting rid of these contracts are "dump trades" and buyouts.  Dump trades just move the contract around the league and buyout options are pretty restrictive.  It just seems to me that a better compromise can be worked out. 

[WildCard]

Laine and Rantenan are both on record saying the Jets and the Avs have had no contract talks with them, fueling the belief that we're all waiting on Marner and the Leafs 

[#freejame]

17 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

I mean, if you don't want him and you're going to equate him to Matt Moulson and Anders Lee?

God bless the Toronto media for beating up the hometown kid.

All summer the Toronto media as been ***** talking Marner thinking it’s going to lower his cost or some BS when four months ago they were all saying how he’s better than Matthews. It’s incredibly transparent and pretty gross. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, WildCard said:

Laine and Rantenan are both on record saying the Jets and the Avs have had no contract talks with them, fueling the belief that we're all waiting on Marner and the Leafs 

An entire offseason being held hostage by one player ???

[Sabel79]

 

Also: all the aqueducts the Roman Empire ever constructed can not possibly ever have carried as much water as the Canadian (national) media does for the leafs.  It’s gross.