GDT: Toronto at Buffalo, 9/21/19 7pm, MSG WGR

[DarthEbriate]

There's no time to take this faceoff as a committee. I am not a committee.

If the lines are similar to the 2nd phase practice lines, and the 4th line is Smith-Lazar-R2... It should be good for some entertainment. Also a chance to evaluate who could kill penalties.

[Randall Flagg]

If people worry about Larsson's scoring in his role...here are the most-defensively-slanted seasons any player has had since they started keeping track of that. NOBODY scores points in that role. Larry and Zemgus were 4th and 5th all time last year. And most of the people on this list

a.) Played these roles on good teams
b.) didn't score any more than Larry or Zemgus do, and usually scored less

So the existence of that role isn't keeping us from being a good team, it's the lack of scoring in the 3 lines ABOVE that one that are SUPPOSED to score that is our problem. I don't care if someone beats Larsson out but I'm incredibly skeptical we have the player ready to do that on this roster. 

[darksabre]

15 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

If people worry about Larsson's scoring in his role...here are the most-defensively-slanted seasons any player has had since they started keeping track of that. NOBODY scores points in that role. Larry and Zemgus were 4th and 5th all time last year. And most of the people on this list

a.) Played these roles on good teams
b.) didn't score any more than Larry or Zemgus do, and usually scored less

So the existence of that role isn't keeping us from being a good team, it's the lack of scoring in the 3 lines ABOVE that one that are SUPPOSED to score that is our problem. I don't care if someone beats Larsson out but I'm incredibly skeptical we have the player ready to do that on this roster. 

I'm glad someone else here appreciates Larry and Zemgus like I do. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I'm glad someone else here appreciates Larry and Zemgus like I do. 

The fourth line is not the issue for this team. They are as good or better than what most teams put out there.

I like this lineup. The non-NHLers are mostly guys I’ve liked this camp and I’m glad they are getting an honest shot.

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'm glad someone else here appreciates Larry and Zemgus like I do. 

The other thing that's worrisome about it is that kind of depth player is usually the player that looks a lot better in preseason than they are in the regular season. It's the kind of thing that convinces Sabres coaches to keep Josefson or Griffith or Derek Grant on the roster to the team's detriment. We know that Larsson and Zemgus can grind pucks down on the boards in the offensive zone and get sticks in lanes defensively. We don't know that Arttu or Lazar or someone can do it equally effectively (though I think Lazar is the guy I'm switching Kyle out with on their right side in my lineups) and there's a good chance they'd sink when the games actually count and we get stuck with another 39% shot share 4th line, after finally having a reasonable one for the first time since before the tank last season. 

I just don't trust anyone, really, not just the Sabres, to be able to map the preseason performance of a 4th liner more correctly to the regular season than the sure thing that is Larry/Zemgus, low ceiling, but guaranteed league-average survival abilities for a 4th line.

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The fourth line is not the issue for this team. They are as good or better than what most teams put out there.

I like this lineup. The non-NHLers are mostly guys I’ve liked this camp and I’m glad they are getting an honest shot.

If these guys can muster up the effort that the team did last night, the game should be a lot of fun to watch. 

That said, first liners in preseason are usually more focused on fine-tuning specific parts of their game, getting their legs and lungs back, trying things out etc. so I wouldn't be surprised or upset if we get a stinker tonight

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

There is zero chance Arttu, or any other depth forward we have this year, would be as good as Larsson in that role. Larry is in the top 5th percentile of all the important shot suppression metrics. He's very good at it. 

While I want to see a good amount of turnover at forward, I too have been thinking that we need at least a couple of guys that can be trusted to lock it down on the PK and in a 5-on-5 defensive role.  Larsson is probably my top choice for one of those slots.  If they dump him and Zemgus in favor of guys like Ruotsie, CJ, Lazar, TT, etc -- I just see the team getting caved in on D and being unable to break the opponent's momentum.

 

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

Interesting, and another indication IMHO that MIttsie's spot on the roster is not guaranteed.

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The other thing that's worrisome about it is that kind of depth player is usually the player that looks a lot better in preseason than they are in the regular season. It's the kind of thing that convinces Sabres coaches to keep Josefson or Griffith or Derek Grant on the roster to the team's detriment. We know that Larsson and Zemgus can grind pucks down on the boards in the offensive zone and get sticks in lanes defensively. We don't know that Arttu or Lazar or someone can do it equally effectively (though I think Lazar is the guy I'm switching Kyle out with on their right side in my lineups) and there's a good chance they'd sink when the games actually count and we get stuck with another 39% shot share 4th line, after finally having a reasonable one for the first time since before the tank last season. 

I just don't trust anyone, really, not just the Sabres, to be able to map the preseason performance of a 4th liner more correctly to the regular season than the sure thing that is Larry/Zemgus, low ceiling, but guaranteed league-average survival abilities for a 4th line.

Lazar has a lot in common with Larry and Z in that he was a PP-type guy in junior whose hands didn’t keep up in the NHL and was forced to reinvent himself as a role player.

His game looks almost halfway between the two: not as strong on his feet as Larry, or as fast as Zemgus, but he’s fast enough and strong enough. He works hard and he’s smart. He looks to fit the same mould. And he’s a great team guy.

So far, he’s looked better than Okposo and Sobotka and is a better fit on the 4th line than Sheary or Thompson. He is also the same age as Smith and Olofsson and has played nearly 250 NHL games. His Corsi numbers were positive in his most recent NHL season, even though his counting stats were awful.

Its just two exhibition games, but I like what I’ve seen. I’m pulling for him.

Edited September 21, 2019 by dudacek

[Brawndo]

In the same amount of time that Buffalo plays its First Nine Games, the Amerks play six. 

I wouldn’t be opposed to sending Mitts down for some confidence building and some work with Taylor and allowing Cozens to get at least a nine game tryout. After that reassess the situations for both players. 

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The other thing that's worrisome about it is that kind of depth player is usually the player that looks a lot better in preseason than they are in the regular season. It's the kind of thing that convinces Sabres coaches to keep Josefson or Griffith or Derek Grant on the roster to the team's detriment. We know that Larsson and Zemgus can grind pucks down on the boards in the offensive zone and get sticks in lanes defensively. We don't know that Arttu or Lazar or someone can do it equally effectively (though I think Lazar is the guy I'm switching Kyle out with on their right side in my lineups) and there's a good chance they'd sink when the games actually count and we get stuck with another 39% shot share 4th line, after finally having a reasonable one for the first time since before the tank last season. 

I just don't trust anyone, really, not just the Sabres, to be able to map the preseason performance of a 4th liner more correctly to the regular season than the sure thing that is Larry/Zemgus, low ceiling, but guaranteed league-average survival abilities for a 4th line.

If these guys can muster up the effort that the team did last night, the game should be a lot of fun to watch. 

That said, first liners in preseason are usually more focused on fine-tuning specific parts of their game, getting their legs and lungs back, trying things out etc. so I wouldn't be surprised or upset if we get a stinker tonight

Yeah, until somebody shows they are clearly better in the 4LW, 4C, & PK role; Girgensons & Larsson belong here.  Much less married to Okposo in the lineup (but won't believe Krueger & Botterill aren't until he's actually out) and agree that Lazar has made a case for taking on that spot that's Kyle's to lose.

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

In the same amount of time that Buffalo plays its First Nine Games, the Amerks play six. 

I wouldn’t be opposed to sending Mitts down for some confidence building and some work with Taylor and allowing Cozens to get at least a nine game tryout. After that reassess the situations for both players. 

I'm not opposed to giving Cozens a look at 3C.  IMHO, slotting him in at 2C would be setting him up to fail (just like slotting Mittelstadt there is) and slotting him into Larsson's role would be a waste.

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd actually like them to roll out Cozens again tonight. Give him Reinhart and olofsson. 

Well, you've got 1/2 your wish.  Expecting Johansson is slotted between the guys you want Cozens to center, but who knows.

[dudacek]

The Mojo to centre is worth looking at, but I am disappointed that it probably means we don’t get to see the Tre Kronor line from camp.

I wonder who shifts to the wing: Cozens, Asplund or ERod?

[Taro T]

Just now, dudacek said:

The Mojo to centre is worth looking at, but I am disappointed that it probably means we don’t get to see the Tre Kronor line from camp.

I wonder who shifts to the wing: Cozens, Asplund or ERod?

My guess is Rodrigues w/ the C spine being Eichel, Johansson, Cozens, Asplund.

[DarthEbriate]

Re: my comment above and the Larry and Z converrsation. I think they're both on the opening night roster. I still like Larry a bunch. Z and me... we're more complicated. But, I want to see who can hack it with them, and who can be the callup if they get hurt (or traded to a contender at the deadline if someone loses their best 4th liner to injury). Is it still Okposo (who then gets PP time), or is it Lazar (who gets to PK), or is it Ruotsalainen or Smith, or even Cozens, etc.?

[Cityo'Rasmii]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Cozens is in tonight again as well

More Cozens, yes Sir!!

go Sabres

[Formerly Allan in MD]

How is Arttu looking?

[matter2003]

Strange schedule for pre-season where the Sabres play 3 teams twice each....is this the same for all teams?

[Huckleberry]

11 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Strange schedule for pre-season where the Sabres play 3 teams twice each....is this the same for all teams?

pretty much the same every year,  at least with the penguins and leafs for sure.

[Neo]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Lazar has a lot in common with Larry and Z in that he was a PP-type guy in junior whose hands didn’t keep up in the NHL and was forced to reinvent himself as a role player.

His game looks almost halfway between the two: not as strong on his feet as Larry, or as fast as Zemgus, but he’s fast enough and strong enough. He works hard and he’s smart. He looks to fit the same mould. And he’s a great team guy.

So far, he’s looked better than Okposo and Sobotka and is a better fit on the 4th line than Sheary or Thompson. He is also the same age as Smith and Olofsson and has played nearly 250 NHL games. His Corsi numbers were positive in his most recent NHL season, even though his counting stats were awful.

Its just two exhibition games, but I like what I’ve seen. I’m pulling for him.

I’d love an effective reincarnation of Lazar.  I enjoy stories of great gifts being replaced by dogged effort as the reason someone succeeds.

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

I’d love an effective reincarnation of Lazar.  I enjoy stories of great gifts being replaced by dogged effort as the reason someone succeeds.

Hé can also help at multiple forward positions. I believe he was drafted as a C and has some NHL games in that slot.

[Kruppstahl]

So are we predicting a TO fan invasion of the building as per the norm?

Or will we be spared as this is the pre-season?

Thoughts?

 

 

[bob_sauve28]

Lazar getting another look, interesting. 

 

Did you see him eating the hamburger? 

[jsb]

Is there a stream for this game? Personally I'd rather watch this game than yesterday's. 

[Stoner]

Who's calling the game?

[pi2000]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, until somebody shows they are clearly better in the 4LW, 4C, & PK role; Girgensons & Larsson belong here. 

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

[steveoath]

At the risk of being overly controversial..... Could Cozens centre a line that included Mitts as a winger? Or would they get torn up? 

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

I'm not opposed to giving Cozens a look at 3C.  IMHO, slotting him in at 2C would be setting him up to fail (just like slotting Mittelstadt there is) and slotting him into Larsson's role would be a waste.

Well, you've got 1/2 your wish.  Expecting Johansson is slotted between the guys you want Cozens to center, but who knows.

+1 on the bold.   

 I have a feeling if there is any chemistry with these three it could be what the second line looks like opening night.