Canadian Election - September 20, 2021

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 10/23/2019 at 1:03 PM, darksabre said:

This situation in Canada with Trudeau and the Libs feels a lot like New York State and Cuomo/NY Dems. No one here really likes Cuomo, but he wins because we're not dumb enough (at the moment) to elect any of the schmucks NY Republicans run. At some point this is going to be a problem for the NY Dem party machine because it does a great job of discouraging primary challengers not just against Cuomo, but against any incumbent Dem in any office in the state, and that pisses people off/discourages Dem turnout in general elections. Canada Libs and NY Dems are both due for a reckoning at some point here.

Maybe this time around, but I don't see any way that the new Con leader (same as the old Con leader) really has a path to victory.

I also do not see a way that Trudeau gets the majority he so desparately wants.  I actually hope for a small minority Liberal government that may lead to Trudeau resigning as PM and party leader, so that we can get a good one.

[drnkirishone]

I honestly don't understand Canadian elections and the whole dissolving of government. I think it is based on what the British do and I have never understood that either.

Seems like a device ripe for abuse by the powerful and influential

[Sabres Fan in NS]

54 minutes ago, drnkirishone said:

I honestly don't understand Canadian elections and the whole dissolving of government. I think it is based on what the British do and I have never understood that either.

Seems like a device ripe for abuse by the powerful and influential

It is based on the British system.  Parliament and the country is, technically, run by the Governor General (Queens representative in Canada, who is appointed by a sitting Prime Minister, but apprived by the Queen, which is a formality).  Any time there is an election in Canada the sitting Prime Minister has to meet with the Govenor General and ask that they disolve parliament and trigger an election.  In theory, the Governor General can refuse the PM's request, but that is not going to happen.  The sitting Govenor General is about 1 month into her job.  So, Trudeau met with her today and she granted his request that she disolve parliament.

Trudeau is hoping that he can win back his Majority in Parliament.  In 2015 he got one.  In 2019 he got a pretty strong Minority.  My hope is that this backfires on him, but not enough to give the Conservative guy a chance to govern, so I hope for an even smaller minority govenment for Trudeau.  Small enough that he will be complelled to retire and we can have a better leader for the Liberal Party.  I am a social democrat and have been voting Green for years.  Trudeau is powerful and elite and is abusing that this time around.  No one wants and election and it is not even 2 years into a 4 year mandate.  It stinks, really.

In other news, we are winding down our own election her in NS.  I voted Green.  Our Premier has not won election as Premier, he replaced the Liberal Premier when he retired.  I can understand him wanting his own mandate.

Anyway, you really didn't ask how it works ... lol!!

 

[drnkirishone]

6 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

It is based on the British system.  Parliament and the country is, technically, run by the Governor General (Queens representative in Canada, who is appointed by a sitting Prime Minister, but apprived by the Queen, which is a formality).  Any time there is an election in Canada the sitting Prime Minister has to meet with the Govenor General and ask that they disolve parliament and trigger an election.  In theory, the Governor General can refuse the PM's request, but that is not going to happen.  The sitting Govenor General is about 1 month into her job.  So, Trudeau met with her today and she granted his request that she disolve parliament.

Trudeau is hoping that he can win back his Majority in Parliament.  In 2015 he got one.  In 2019 he got a pretty strong Minority.  My hope is that this backfires on him, but not enough to give the Conservative guy a chance to govern, so I hope for an even smaller minority govenment for Trudeau.  Small enough that he will be complelled to retire and we can have a better leader for the Liberal Party.  I am a social democrat and have been voting Green for years.  Trudeau is powerful and elite and is abusing that this time around.  No one wants and election and it is not even 2 years into a 4 year mandate.  It stinks, really.

In other news, we are winding down our own election her in NS.  I voted Green.  Our Premier has not won election as Premier, he replaced the Liberal Premier when he retired.  I can understand him wanting his own mandate.

Anyway, you really didn't ask how it works ... lol!!

 

I appreciate the run-down on how it works. Still seems like a system ripe for abuse

[Sabres Fan in NS]

15 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

I appreciate the run-down on how it works. Still seems like a system ripe for abuse

This election is not needed.  No one wants it except Trudeau.  He wants his Majority back and polls show that it is likely, although now he is getting a lot of backlash.  It's a good example of him abusing the system.  We have fixed elections in Canada now and his government was working, but he needed the support of the very social democratic NDP in parliament, which means he had to be even more left (Trudeau is not a real 'Liberal' like his father before him). 

The Liberal Party historically has been centrist, as was the old PC (Progressive Conservative) party.  Now we have the Conservative Party, which lines up very well with the most right wingers in the Republican Party.  The NDP and some of the Liberal Party mix together and come one like many Democrats.  The most liberal of the NDP party are your very left Democrats (Bernie). 

My first election when I was young and stupid (19) I voted PC.  Every since that I have either voted NDP, or Green.  I voted Green in our NS election (election day is tomorrow) and will vote Green in this Federal election.

I hope that Trudeau does not get his Majority.  That arrogant bastard!!  I really don't like him.  He promised me and every other Green Party (and other 'third' party supporters ... there are about a dozen official parties in Canada and most run some candidates) proportional representation in 2015 and we still don't have it.  That's an easy promise to make when you are not in power and something that you will never enact when you are in power.  It works well in Europe and New Zealand.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by New Scotland (NS)
more goodly typing ...

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Stunning result in Nova Scotia last night.

A Progressive Conservative sweeping majority.  No one really saw this coming.

At the start of this very short and ill timed campaign the Liberals had a slight majority of 1 seat.  The Premier took over from the retired Premier in February, so he wanted his own mandate, but he didn't need it now.  He had 2 years left on the mandate he inherited, but nope, he needed his own.  Well it backfired on his ass big time, heavy duty.

The PC party ran a very good and very progressive campaign.  I wish them luck in doing what they outlined.  I am not upset, as the PC party right now are very liberal.  Nova Scotia is a funny place in that they keep their hands close to their chest during elections and when they get pissed off they will really show it.  Only about half of the eligible voters voted, which is disgraceful, and the ones that did about 40% voted PC.  So, that means that roughly 21% of the eligible voters in NS decided for everyone else who was going to run the province for the next 4 years.  We have a very strange electoral system here in Canada and it needs to change.

I bet Mr. Smug Ass Trudeau is watching very closely what happened in NS last night.  I think that he is in for a reconing on September 9th.  I just hope that he hangs on for a slim majority, since I don't like his main competitor at all.  My hope beyond hope is that Canada finally gives the very liberal NDP (New Democratic Party) a  chance to govern, even in a minority.  Minority govenments, both Federal and Provincial, tend to work best, as the PM needs to work with other parties to get things done.

[Weave]

Progressive Conservative?  What in the hell kind of oxymorons do you guys have up there?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

Progressive Conservative?  What in the hell kind of oxymorons do you guys have up there?

Yup.  Now we have the Federal Conservative Party, but it has only existed since December 2003.  It was put together when an alliance of right-wing parties merged with what remained of the Progressive Conservative Party.

Before that there was the a mix in the Progressive Conservative Party of Progressives and Conservatives ... Red and Blue Tories.  A splinter group of Blue Tories (mostly in Alberta and Saskatchewan) broke away to form the Reform Party.  Other even more Blue Tories formed small parties, which all merged into what was called the Alliance Party, which merged with the remnants of the PC Party.

Provincially there are many Progressive Conservative Party still around, including here in NS.  I did not vote for them, as they are not Progressive enough for me, but they did run on a very Progressive platform.  Much more Progressive than the Liberal Party of NS.  We shall see if it lasts.

Anyway, not sure if that answers your question, so I will just add that ... yes, it is rather oxymoronic.  Liberal and Progressive Conservative Parties have long histories in Canada.

[drnkirishone]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Progressive Conservative?  What in the hell kind of oxymorons do you guys have up there?

not to different compared to our compassionate conservative number 43 i assume

[Sabres Fan in NS]

This election is turning very ugly and it is starting to look like the early election call may very well backfire on Trudeau.

For the first time in 20 years I am not going to be voting with my heart, but using my head and strategery.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The tide in this election has really turned.

PM Trudeau is finding out something he didn't know ... Canadians are getting pretty frustrated with him and do not like that he called this election.  His governing Liberals are running neck and neck with the Conservatives now in national poles.  The thing is that this election is very hard to predict the outcome beause in our system (first past the post, which is outdated and terrible) means it is critical where you get your votes.

So, who knows how this will end up, but if enough people in Atlantic Canada and Ontario shift their votes, especially in rural / suburban ridings Trudeau is finished.  I am not sure how I feel about that, but I do not like Trudeau at all, but the leader of the Conservatives and their platform is kind of scary overall.  One thing I do support them on is the elimination, or near elimination of fish farms.  So, it is possible that I will be voting Conservative for the first time in my life.  I will not vote Liberal, so it is most likely that I will vote NDP.  For years I have voted Green, but have decided that I will nto do that this time around ... vote a bit more with my head.

Judging by the small amount of our large riding that we saw yeasterday when we were out for a bit of a drive in the Legend (😎) our incumbent Liberal MP does not have much of a chance at re-election.  The riding has historically voted Conservative a vast majority of the time.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Trudeau has really messed this thing up.

He is in a virtual tie with the Conservatives nationally.  Trudeau is still projeted to win the most seats based on where the strong Liberal support is (Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada ... it is slipping in Ontario and Atlantic Canada and if that continues he will not be Prime Minister after this election).  The latest projections show maybe a 10 seat difference between the two main parties, which will mean that the lesser parties (especially the NDP and PQ) will really hold a lot of power to prop up either the Liberals, or Conservatives, no matter which party tries to govern.  

As it stands now we are most likely to have a very weak Minority government, which may be called a Coalition govenment if it ends up being a Liberal + NDP setup.

If it is a very slim minority government for either the Liberals, or Conservatives (basically a tie, which is very possible) the governing Liberals will be given first crack at forming a government.

I am glad that this arrogant Trudeau and his early election call has back fired on him big time.  He wanted his Majority back and it looked promising at the start, but peoople are really tired of him, but not really ready to hand it completely over to the other guy.  Most people are really fed up and are saying why are we having this election.  He is desparate and really becoming unhinged in his campaigning.  He is proposing things that are straight out of Stalin style dictatorship, especially around vaccines.  His proposal to mandate vaccination is against the Constitution, IMO.

My wife and I decided due to COVID to sign up for mail in ballots.  We filed them out over the weekend and I Express Posted them this morning.  For once we did not cancel out each others vote ... lol!!  I was not going to vote Liberal and I spent some time considering my options.  In the end I could not vote Conservative for one reason in particular, but overall I just don't trust them to be socially responsible.  I have been voting Green, but the Green Party federally is a mess right now.  I ended up voting NDP and I feel good about it.  I have supported them in the past.  I like their overall platform for the most part ... Centre Left.  The one issue that sealed it for me was their pledge to stop selling arms to Israel, Saudi and a number of other evil empires that use these weapons mostly on civilians.

Since our riding has historically voted Conservative I expect their candidate to unseat the Liberal incumbent pretty easily.

This is a very important election for Canada and is going to be interesting to watch how it all works out, for once.

[drnkirishone]

2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

He is proposing things that are straight out of Stalin style dictatorship, especially around vaccines.  His proposal to mandate vaccination is against the Constitution, IMO.

Do you not mandate vaccinations for children to attend school? I really don't get why it is so fashionable to equate vaccine mandates with one of the worlds leading mass murderers

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

Do you not mandate vaccinations for children to attend school? I really don't get why it is so fashionable to equate vaccine mandates with one of the worlds leading mass murderers

We do. 

You must see the difference between the mandatory children vaccines and mandatory COVID vaccines for adults?

We have choices in this country. I am not anti-vaccine, but I am more pro-choice. This clown pranced around professing your body, your choice. What a hypocrite.

I was equating this dictatorial stance with Stalin the dictator, but now that you bring it up … anyone that sells arms to Israel, Saudi and others certainly has blood on their hands.

[drnkirishone]

12 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

We do. 

You must see the difference between the mandatory children vaccines and mandatory COVID vaccines for adults?

We have choices in this country. I am not anti-vaccine, but I am more pro-choice. This clown pranced around professing your body, your choice. What a hypocrite.

So it is right to mandate it for humans that have no concept of for the public good but bad to mandate it for humans that make a conscious decision to endanger the public health?

We give up so many "choices" to live in a society. For instance I am not allowed to go to my local grocery store and shop whilst nude. Yes that is clearly for the public good.

I understand the desire to not mandate vaccinations. If 80% of thous healthy enough to get vaccinated would do so, I doubt we would hear about mandates. But here we are in yet another wave of covid with some 15 million vaccines expired and destroyed

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, drnkirishone said:

So it is right to mandate it for humans that have no concept of for the public good but bad to mandate it for humans that make a conscious decision to endanger the public health?

We give up so many "choices" to live in a society. For instance I am not allowed to go to my local grocery store and shop whilst nude. Yes that is clearly for the public good.

I understand the desire to not mandate vaccinations. If 80% of thous healthy enough to get vaccinated would do so, I doubt we would hear about mandates. But here we are in yet another wave of covid with some 15 million vaccines expired and destroyed

I get all that.  It's a slippery slope.  If you do not get the vaccine then you must do as I do and not do anything basically.  You cannot expect to have your life back as it was pre-COVID.  The problem is that very few of the non-vaccinated are like me.  I still do not like the idea of mandates, but it's a problem.  I think that there are enough vaccinated, or almost, and this thing appears to be burning itself out, as most SARS / COVID viruses do.  I can only really talk about here in NS, but even with the increase in cases with Delta the people with it do not seem to be very sick.  We have about 75 cases (not a lot compared to many places) and not a singe one in hospital.  I realize that is not the case everywhere.

Anyway, good luck to everyone on this.

And thanks for the not naked shopping, on behalf of your neighbours ... lol

[K-9]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:12 AM, New Scotland (NS) said:

This election is not needed.  No one wants it except Trudeau.  He wants his Majority back and polls show that it is likely, although now he is getting a lot of backlash.  It's a good example of him abusing the system.  We have fixed elections in Canada now and his government was working, but he needed the support of the very social democratic NDP in parliament, which means he had to be even more left (Trudeau is not a real 'Liberal' like his father before him). 

The Liberal Party historically has been centrist, as was the old PC (Progressive Conservative) party.  Now we have the Conservative Party, which lines up very well with the most right wingers in the Republican Party.  The NDP and some of the Liberal Party mix together and come one like many Democrats.  The most liberal of the NDP party are your very left Democrats (Bernie). 

My first election when I was young and stupid (19) I voted PC.  Every since that I have either voted NDP, or Green.  I voted Green in our NS election (election day is tomorrow) and will vote Green in this Federal election.

I hope that Trudeau does not get his Majority.  That arrogant bastard!!  I really don't like him.  He promised me and every other Green Party (and other 'third' party supporters ... there are about a dozen official parties in Canada and most run some candidates) proportional representation in 2015 and we still don't have it.  That's an easy promise to make when you are not in power and something that you will never enact when you are in power.  It works well in Europe and New Zealand.

 

Per the bold, is it your opinion that the Canadian right is aligned with the same neo-fascist ideals of the far right wing of the Republican party in the U.S.? Wouldn’t surprise me considering what we’ve seen occurring worldwide over the last decade or so.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold, is it your opinion that the Canadian right is aligned with the same neo-fascist ideals of the far right wing of the Republican party in the U.S.? Wouldn’t surprise me considering what we’ve seen occurring worldwide over the last decade or so.

There are a fringe element that are very far right wing, but still overall Canada is a very centrist country.  So, there are still reasonable (the majority I'd say) that still cling to the old PC (Progressive Conservative) roots of the party ... typically socially progressive and fiscally conservative.

That said, there are some that would ban abortion and oppose same sex rights.  So, far official party platform has not gone there and I would say it won't for some time yet.  In order to win any election they have to secure enough progressive votes in Ontario, which means staying pretty much to the centre - right of the spectrum.  

An ultra concervative who lost the last leadership contest started his own party.  Maxime Bernier and the Peoples Party of Canada.  Now he is a whack job and he is polling at around 5%, but the way the system works here that will translate to zero seats.  Now, if we ever get a form of proportional representation here, then his party would be represented.  I have to be willing to take the good and the bad in that system, which I want.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

This election is still way to close to call and to close for comfort.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Today is the big day.

We should have a pretty good idea what's happening by midnight (NS time).  

This is gonna be a close one, if we trust the polls.  I have a bad feeling about this one.  On the one hand I an sick and tired of Trudeau, but am not very comfortable with the other guy.  If enough voters in Quebec vote for the Bloc at the expense of the Liberals and if enough voters in the suburban Greater Satan Area turn their backs on Trudeau the other guy will win.  If enough votes change in Ontario and Atlantic Canada the other guy will win in a landslide and it really will be the end of Trudeau, as he would never want to be opposition leader after being PM.  I want Trudeau gone, but I don't want that other guy in either.  Only Mr. Singh can save us now.

[drnkirishone]

so, how is it going?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:46 PM, drnkirishone said:

so, how is it going?

Pretty terrible.

I don't like our Prime Minister, but don't really trust or like the other guy.  I voted NDP.  Our sitting MP (Liberal) lost big time ... mostly because she skrewed over all the fishers in our area.

What a total waste of time and money.  This was the most expensive election ever in Canada ($650 million +) and we are pretty much exactly where we left off.  There is virtually no change in the seat allocation at all.

[drnkirishone]

3 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Pretty terrible.

I don't like our Prime Minister, but don't really trust or like the other guy.  I voted NDP.  Our sitting MP (Liberal) lost big time ... mostly because she skrewed over all the fishers in our area.

What a total waste of time and money.  This was the most expensive election ever in Canada ($650 million +) and we are pretty much exactly where we left off.  There is virtually no change in the seat allocation at all.

Our last election cost something around 14 billion....

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

Our last election cost something around 14 billion....

WOW!!  Maybe our idiot PM just ran us through the bargain basement of elections.

That said, I think you guys got a lot more bang for the buck.

[drnkirishone]

corporate interests costs a fair amount. Our elected officials get bank for selling their soul.