Canadian Election - September 20, 2021

[Sabres Fan in NS]

We now have set Federal election dates in Canada, thank goodness and thank you PM Harper, as it was one of the good things that he did.

The polls are very close between the Liberal (Trudeau) and the Conservatives.  I am a fiscally responsible social democrat.  Kind of an oxy-moron, which describes me perfectly, especially the moron part.

After branding himself and his party as the most inclusive and (quietly) painting the Conservatives as a bunch of racists this story came out yesterday ...

https://www.cbc.ca/news

The hight of hypocracy, right there.

This combined with the on-going SNC Lavalin scandal will mean we will, most likely, have a new government and Prime Minister elect on October 22nd.  Of this, I am almost certain.

During the previous election and early in his mandate PM Trudeau promised election reform and some form of proportional represention (likely a mixed Parliament, with some MPs elected under the present 'first passed the post' method of the MP elected in each riding with the most votes and other MPs picked by the popular vote).  It is easy to promise such things when you are not the governing party.  Of course, nothing has changed, which is too bad, but I still feel good and comfortable in my vote ... Green Party.

Edited August 15, 2021 by New Scotland (NS)
we have a new election as of today (August 15, 2021)

[Eleven]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madama_Butterfly#/media/File:Madame_Butterfly_-_7.3.1985_(Zora_Jehličková,_Blanka_Vítková)(foto_Oldřich_Pernica).jpg

 

The whole railing against so-called "cultural appropriation" has gotten ridiculous.  Where do we draw the line?  Can Eastern European women no longer sing Butterfly?  Should we ban Seiji Ozawa (Asian) from conducting a multi-national orchestra playing German (Europe) music in Boston (North America)?  Do I throw out my The Who albums because Brits shouldn't engage in "maximum R&B"?  Is it wrong for Eddie Murphy to wear makeup to appear as a white man?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Eleven

[Sabres Fan in NS]

18 minutes ago, Eleven said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madama_Butterfly#/media/File:Madame_Butterfly_-_7.3.1985_(Zora_Jehličková,_Blanka_Vítková)(foto_Oldřich_Pernica).jpg

 

The whole railing against so-called "cultural appropriation" has gotten ridiculous.  Where do we draw the line?  Can Eastern European women no longer sing Butterfly?  Should we ban Seiji Ozawa (Asian) from conducting a multi-national orchestra playing German (Europe) music in Boston (North America)?  Do I throw out my The Who albums because Brits shouldn't engage in "maximum R&B"?  Is it wrong for Eddie Murphy to wear makeup to appear as a white man?

I must say that I am more than a bit surprised that this is your reply.  I would not think that I would have to explain how inappropriate what our PM did is.  And it's not like he did it as a teen, or something.  Your counter questions are, well, outlandish.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I must say that I am more than a bit surprised that this is your reply.  I would not think that I would have to explain how inappropriate what our PM did is.  And it's not like he did it as a teen, or something.  Your counter questions are, well, outlandish.

I don't know the circumstances or context, but seeing that he has his arms around two Sikhs (?) who seem to be smiling genuinely, I can't see that his actions were intended to offend.  It looks like he was just attending a cultural celebration of some sort.  

I would think the counterexamples are completely square, especially the ones about the opera and Eddie Murphy, as both involve people dressing and putting on makeup to appear to be someone of another race.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Eleven

[SABRES 0311]

Serious question. If I a black person wants to dress up like Vin Diesel for Halloween, are they allowed to paint their face white? IMHO it’s racist if the intent is to demean based on skin color. It’s not racist if you are simply trying to complete the character. This wasn’t an issue 20 years ago, why now? Again just my opinion. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

I don't know the circumstances or context, but seeing that he has his arms around two Sikhs (?) who seem to be smiling genuinely, I can't see that his actions were intended to offend.  It looks like he was just attending a cultural celebration of some sort.  

I would think the counterexamples are completely square, especially the ones about the opera and Eddie Murphy, as both involve people dressing and putting on makeup to appear to be someone of another race.

They are Sikhs and you are right that they are smiling and it is pretty obvious that it was some kind of fun event.  That does not make it right what the PM did.  He is very over the top and back in 2001 maybe things were different, but I can see how his getup would offend.  I'm a white guy with many brown friends and I'm offended.  I am ashamed of his behaviour, especially since he has called out others for what they have done in the past, mostly as young people.  He was not young then.  He was teaching in BC at the time, so a full grown up adult.  Shameful.

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Serious question. If I a black person wants to dress up like Vin Diesel for Halloween, are they allowed to paint their face white? IMHO it’s racist if the intent is to demean based on skin color. It’s not racist if you are simply trying to complete the character. This wasn’t an issue 20 years ago, why now? Again just my opinion. 

It is different if a black person does it, as there is not the same history of oppression.  Times have changed and we as a culture do not and should not accept this behaviour, we should not have accepted it 20+ years ago either.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Below is an article explaining why this behaviour is terrible ...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/justin-trudeau-brownface-blackface-1.5289259

[SABRES 0311]

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

It is different if a black person does it, as there is not the same history of oppression.  Times have changed and we as a culture do not and should not accept this behaviour, we should not have accepted it 20+ years ago either.

I’m not disputing the history of oppression but I think at some point we need to use the past as a lesson learned and not a foundation for double standards. 

[Weave]

I don't know how I feel about this.  Context surely matters.  Was it a time when it was acceptable?  Was the intent light hearted?

 

I think if it is done today, it is done knowing that it would raise eyebrows, and that is a pretty big difference to me.  Not unlike flying the Southern Cross.  At one time you could proclaim a level of innocence and it be reasonable to accept, but not today.  So, again, context matters.

I know nothing of the Prime Minister or the events that are drawing controversy, so no judgement here.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

@Weave,

It was at an 'Arabian Night's' (which is offensive in itself) event at the private school were he taught. It was in 2001, which was a time when this kind of thing was not acceptable. He does not have the excuse of youth like he does when he performed in Black Face the Banana Boat Song in a High School talent show.

He is around 45, so these things were not acceptable his entire life.

His father would not be proud of him now.

Intention does not matter to me on these things. He should have known better.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I’m not disputing the history of oppression but I think at some point we need to use the past as a lesson learned and not a foundation for double standards. 

I agree. I did not say that I like when a  black man does it. I think it is bad, but a bit different than when a white man does it.

[Eleven]

I discussed this over breakfast with a friend who is Canadian and brown.  Not that he speaks for all brown people, or all Canadians, or all brown Canadians, but he thinks this whole thing is nonsense.

If people pay heed to this, Canada is going to end up with Scheer, who truly does not care about others' feelings.

This is Canada's "Hillary email moment."  I hope you survive it.

 

EDIT:  Also, this:  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-brownface-photo-trudeau-west-point-grey-1.5290814?cmp=rss

 

Seriously, everyone needs to calm the ***** down over stuff like this.  No malice intended --> leave it alone.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Eleven

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

I discussed this over breakfast with a friend who is Canadian and brown.  Not that he speaks for all brown people, or all Canadians, or all brown Canadians, but he thinks this whole thing is nonsense.

If people pay heed to this, Canada is going to end up with Scheer, who truly does not care about others' feelings.

This is Canada's "Hillary email moment."  I hope you survive it.

 

EDIT:  Also, this:  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-brownface-photo-trudeau-west-point-grey-1.5290814?cmp=rss

 

Seriously, everyone needs to calm the ***** down over stuff like this.  No malice intended --> leave it alone.

Yeah, many seem to not care, but many do.

I agree, that this may help with the election of Scheer, who is basically Doug Ford, but not as funny.  

The way the elections are set up in Canada the chances of Trudeau being re-elected are pretty good, with his strong support in Atlantic Canada, Quebec and Ontario.  The Concervatives are very strong in the Prairie provinces, with BC pretty mixed.

Either way, my bet is a Minority Government, which is probably best since it will force the governing party to work with the other parties to get stuff done.

I will get over this and if you meant the collective you then I think we Canadians will get over it too.

[LTS]

On 9/19/2019 at 7:04 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

They are Sikhs and you are right that they are smiling and it is pretty obvious that it was some kind of fun event.  That does not make it right what the PM did.  He is very over the top and back in 2001 maybe things were different, but I can see how his getup would offend.  I'm a white guy with many brown friends and I'm offended.  I am ashamed of his behaviour, especially since he has called out others for what they have done in the past, mostly as young people.  He was not young then.  He was teaching in BC at the time, so a full grown up adult.  Shameful.

It is different if a black person does it, as there is not the same history of oppression.  Times have changed and we as a culture do not and should not accept this behaviour, we should not have accepted it 20+ years ago either.

To me this would be the worst part of things at this point.  If he has called out others for things they have done in the past he probably should not have done so when he had his own skeletons.

As for the situation itself. I am tired of hearing about what people have done in the past when it relates to judging who they are now. While each past event should be judged on its own, so too should be the evolution of the person in question. People make mistakes, and sometimes, in some social circles, you may be prone to making some choices that seem perfectly fine at the time.  It's only later, when we grow wiser, that we realize how ignorant the decision was.  Holding these things over people's heads ignores everything else they've done in their lives.

Judge them as a whole, not as a part.  I am sure we are all full of mistakes, which, if brought to light now, may damn us to eternity in the same ways that some of these past moments of poor judgment are used to judge those in the public light.

[Eleven]

There is a black man in a leprechaun outfit at the Notre Dame game.  Heavens to Betsy!  He is disrespecting Gaelic culture!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 9/21/2019 at 9:58 AM, LTS said:

To me this would be the worst part of things at this point.  If he has called out others for things they have done in the past he probably should not have done so when he had his own skeletons.

As for the situation itself. I am tired of hearing about what people have done in the past when it relates to judging who they are now. While each past event should be judged on its own, so too should be the evolution of the person in question. People make mistakes, and sometimes, in some social circles, you may be prone to making some choices that seem perfectly fine at the time.  It's only later, when we grow wiser, that we realize how ignorant the decision was.  Holding these things over people's heads ignores everything else they've done in their lives.

Judge them as a whole, not as a part.  I am sure we are all full of mistakes, which, if brought to light now, may damn us to eternity in the same ways that some of these past moments of poor judgment are used to judge those in the public light.

I hear you.

As for my own youth, I did some self-reflection this weekend, and most of the things I did from 15 through 22 I am not very proud of.  That said, I am not the Prime Minister of Canada and I certainly do not throw stones at others for their past behaviour.

[LTS]

On 9/23/2019 at 1:10 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

I hear you.

As for my own youth, I did some self-reflection this weekend, and most of the things I did from 15 through 22 I am not very proud of.  That said, I am not the Prime Minister of Canada and I certainly do not throw stones at others for their past behaviour.

At one point I had aspirations of a political life.  I could only imagine how some of the things I had done in my past would come back now.  Granted, I've never done anything that would be construed as racist by then or now standards.  However, there are certainly other things that would not pass today's litmus test.

 

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

At one point I had aspirations of a political life.  I could only imagine how some of the things I had done in my past would come back now.  Granted, I've never done anything that would be construed as racist by then or now standards.  However, there are certainly other things that would not pass today's litmus test.

 

I’d vote for you as long as you have a catchy slogan. “Bring a mop cause it’s a mess”.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

At one point I had aspirations of a political life.  I could only imagine how some of the things I had done in my past would come back now.  Granted, I've never done anything that would be construed as racist by then or now standards.  However, there are certainly other things that would not pass today's litmus test.

 

Yup.  I never wanted a political life, but many things would certainly not help if I did.  Like you, though, nothing of a racist nature, but I must admit that some things would certainly be considered homophobic, which are the things that I am least proud of.  I have grown a lot since my youth.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I voted this morning.  First in line at my advance polling station.  Vote early and vote often, yup.

Did not vote Liberal, or Conservative, or NDP, nor People's Party (they did not field a candidate in my riding (district)) ... I voted Green and I feel great.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, the masses have spoken, sort of.

Meet the new Prime Minister, same as the old Prime Minister.  The Trudeau Liberals won a pretty large Minority Government, which is good and what I was hoping for.  That arrogant so and so will be forced to work with other parties to make this thing work.  Historically, Minority Governments have not lasted that long.  Usually about two years before the governing party pisses everyone off enough to topple the government and have a do-over election.

The various scandals and broken promises hurt Trudeau, but (fortunately) most did not trust the other guy.

I am very happy that the Attorney General that Trudeau fired for her stance on the Lavalin scandal won re-election running as an Independent.

[darksabre]

49 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

So, the masses have spoken, sort of.

Meet the new Prime Minister, same as the old Prime Minister.  The Trudeau Liberals won a pretty large Minority Government, which is good and what I was hoping for.  That arrogant so and so will be forced to work with other parties to make this thing work.  Historically, Minority Governments have not lasted that long.  Usually about two years before the governing party pisses everyone off enough to topple the government and have a do-over election.

The various scandals and broken promises hurt Trudeau, but (fortunately) most did not trust the other guy.

I am very happy that the Attorney General that Trudeau fired for her stance on the Lavalin scandal won re-election running as an Independent.

This situation in Canada with Trudeau and the Libs feels a lot like New York State and Cuomo/NY Dems. No one here really likes Cuomo, but he wins because we're not dumb enough (at the moment) to elect any of the schmucks NY Republicans run. At some point this is going to be a problem for the NY Dem party machine because it does a great job of discouraging primary challengers not just against Cuomo, but against any incumbent Dem in any office in the state, and that pisses people off/discourages Dem turnout in general elections. Canada Libs and NY Dems are both due for a reckoning at some point here.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Well, the 'other guy' that no one east of Saskatchewan trusted, or liked, has been forced out.

In a very winnable election he just plain blew it.  His ultra-conservative views, both personal and the party line, does not sit well in the heart of Canada and in the far west and far east of Canada.  The party will have to move more to the centre if they really want to form a government.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Bump ...

Rumours were flying for a few weeks now that Trudeau was going to force and election on the people of Canada during a pandemic.

I don't think anyone really wants this except Trudeau, who obviously thinks he can get his majority govenment back.

If it were not for the complete idiot running the other major party that likely to win if Trudeau does not I would hope this backfires on Trudeau's ass big time.

I hope we give this dink a smaller minority goverment.

Trudeau is meeting with the Governor General right now.  My hope is that she refuses his request that she disolve govenment to force the election tha no one wants.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Bump ...

Rumours were flying for a few weeks now that Trudeau was going to force and election on the people of Canada during a pandemic.

I don't think anyone really wants this except Trudeau, who obviously thinks he can get his majority govenment back.

If it were not for the complete idiot running the other major party that likely to win if Trudeau does not I would hope this backfires on Trudeau's ass big time.

I hope we give this dink a smaller minority goverment.

Trudeau is meeting with the Governor General right now.  My hope is that she refuses his request that she disolve govenment to force the election tha no one wants.

So he did it and she did it.  So, we have an election.