OT: Downtown developments

[sabills]

I swear we had a topic like this before, but I couldn't find it in a search.

Anyways, new skyway plans:
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/city-of-lights-wins-skyway-redesign-will-remove-skyway

Pretty cool if they get it done. Color me skeptical, but I like the idea. Sucks for people who live in hamburg, but other than that I think it'll be a good thing.

[Pimlach]

Very cool.  Last summer during our stay in Buffalo my wife and I saw the large wooden ships that were down at the waterfront.  we love rthe way the development is going.

We  talked about the Skyway.  i am for taking it down, or at least upgrading the architectural look of it if it stays.  She wants it to stay because she loves the view of the water. 

This proposal provides both worlds.  Will it really happen? 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Pimlach

[thewookie1]

39 minutes ago, sabills said:

I swear we had a topic like this before, but I couldn't find it in a search.

Anyways, new skyway plans:
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/city-of-lights-wins-skyway-redesign-will-remove-skyway

Pretty cool if they get it done. Color me skeptical, but I like the idea. Sucks for people who live in hamburg, but other than that I think it'll be a good thing.

 

Mad someone from Hamburg I’d like to keep the skyway

[Scottysabres]

They need to build an AARP bordello. The wife is fast approaching Bingo age, an evening side hobby that brings in some hunting sea....err....extra early Xmas cash is a good hobby for her ?

[mjd1001]

The article makes it sound like its a done deal...headline is a bit deceiving...saying "will remove skyway".   I thought this was just a proposal for conceptual ideas.....is there more to this than that?

 

Anyway, if you aren't going to use the Skyway for vehicle traffic, then why not just take it down?  Keeping it up...in whatever form...is still going to cost money long term for maintenance and those pillars take away somewhat valuable land below.

If it isn't going to be used for traffic, just get rid of the whole thing....the concept picture seem to show that part of it would still stay up.

Don't get me wrong..I am all for getting rid of that thing...but if it does go...that is one less 4 lane highway available into and out of the area where a new Bills stadium might be build.

Edited September 17, 2019 by mjd1001

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

The article makes it sound like its a done deal...headline is a bit deceiving...saying "will remove skyway".   I thought this was just a proposal for conceptual ideas.....is there more to this than that?

 

Anyway, if you aren't going to use the Skyway for vehicle traffic, then why not just take it down?  Keeping it up...in whatever form...is still going to cost money long term for maintenance and those pillars take away somewhat valuable land below.

If it isn't going to be used for traffic, just get rid of the whole thing....the concept picture seem to show that part of it would still stay up.

Don't get me wrong..I am all for getting rid of that thing...but if it does go...that is one less 4 lane highway available into and out of the area where a new Bills stadium might be build.

I think they are going to repurpose a section into an overview but remove the rest. 

[Kr632]

Buffalo hates smooth flowing traffic. 

[SwampD]

Good. Move the 190 as well.

Dumbest. Cilvil. Engineering. Ever.

“Hey. Let’s take the city’s greatest resource, the river and lake, and completely block you from being able to get to it.”

[mjd1001]

19 hours ago, SwampD said:

Good. Move the 190 as well.

Dumbest. Cilvil. Engineering. Ever.

“Hey. Let’s take the city’s greatest resource, the river and lake, and completely block you from being able to get to it.”

You can attribute a lot of this to one man, Robert Moses.  In many cities (not just Niagara Falls), highways and bridges were named after him for the work he did.  However, his idea in terms of civil engineering was to center things around the automobile.  Build more highways, Bigger highways.  Build highways along waterfronts to give drivers and passengers of cars a 'better view'.  I think he even had an idea at one point and pushed to build a major highway right through the center of Manhattan.

At the time (post WW2), a lot of people supported him...but there may not be many people at all that did more damage to our infrastructure than he did (and cost $billions to correct those mistakes).

There was a very good documentary on Robert Moses I saw a few years ago...I can't remember if it was on Netflix...or the History channel.  Very interesting and well worth the hour to watch it if you can find it.

[Doohicksie]

Following that tangent, there's a whole narrative about how post war race relations were in large part driven by the construction of interstates through the cities.  The African-American community was largely ignored when planning where to put the roads and they were often put right through their neighborhoods, or put up as a barrier to cut them off from white neighborhoods, because the ruling whites simply didn't care what African-Americans thought.  In many cities the highways were run through the poorest neighborhoods just to get rid of those neighborhoods.  They often put the "urban renewal" label on these projects when in reality they were destroying viable (if run down) neighborhoods, and leaving the inhabitants nowhere else to live.

I haven't read specifically about Buffalo in this regard, but there is an ongoing debate about what to do about I-81 through Syracuse, which has a long history.  They're in the beginning stages of tearing it down in the downtown area to restore the "community grid."

Edited September 18, 2019 by Doohickie

[darksabre]

27 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

You can attribute a lot of this to one man, Robert Moses.  In many cities (not just Niagara Falls), highways and bridges were named after him for the work he did.  However, his idea in terms of civil engineering was to center things around the automobile.  Build more highways, Bigger highways.  Build highways along waterfronts to give drivers and passengers of cars a 'better view'.  I think he even had an idea at one point and pushed to build a major highway right through the center of Manhattan.

At the time (post WW2), a lot of people supported him...but there may not be many people at all that did more damage to our infrastructure than he did (and cost $billions to correct those mistakes).

There was a very good documentary on Robert Moses I saw a few years ago...I can't remember if it was on Netflix...or the History channel.  Very interesting and well worth the hour to watch it if you can find it.

Robert Moses screwed so much stuff up it's not even funny. One man singularly responsible for all sorts of messes that we're still dealing with today and will be for some time.

It's incredible that we still have things named after him.

[WildCard]

32 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

You can attribute a lot of this to one man, Robert Moses.  In many cities (not just Niagara Falls), highways and bridges were named after him for the work he did.  However, his idea in terms of civil engineering was to center things around the automobile.  Build more highways, Bigger highways.  Build highways along waterfronts to give drivers and passengers of cars a 'better view'.  I think he even had an idea at one point and pushed to build a major highway right through the center of Manhattan.

At the time (post WW2), a lot of people supported him...but there may not be many people at all that did more damage to our infrastructure than he did (and cost $billions to correct those mistakes).

There was a very good documentary on Robert Moses I saw a few years ago...I can't remember if it was on Netflix...or the History channel.  Very interesting and well worth the hour to watch it if you can find it.

Interesting, I've never even heard of the guy. I'm gonna give that doc a view

[SwampD]

39 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Interesting, I've never even heard of the guy. I'm gonna give that doc a view

Iv'e been meaning to read this for 10 years.

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Broker-Robert-Moses-Fall/dp/0394720245/ref=asc_df_0394720245/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312176338241&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1863018459461325626&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9067609&hvtargid=pla-433447559669&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60258870897&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312176338241&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1863018459461325626&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9067609&hvtargid=pla-433447559669

[erickompositör72]

52 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Following that tangent, there's a whole narrative about how post war race relations were in large part driven by the construction of interstates through the cities.  The African-American community was largely ignored when planning where to put the roads and they were often put right through their neighborhoods, or put up as a barrier to cut them off from white neighborhoods, because the ruling whites simply didn't care what African-Americans thought.  In many cities the highways were run through the poorest neighborhoods just to get rid of those neighborhoods.  They often put the "urban renewal" label on these projects when in reality they were destroying viable (if run down) neighborhoods, and leaving the inhabitants nowhere else to live.

I haven't read specifically about Buffalo in this regard, but there is an ongoing debate about what to do about I-81 through Syracuse, which has a long history.  They're in the beginning stages of tearing it down in the downtown area to restore the "community grid."

This is exactly what happened to the Humboldt Parkway in Buffalo to make way for the 33. Tragic.

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Following that tangent, there's a whole narrative about how post war race relations were in large part driven by the construction of interstates through the cities.  The African-American community was largely ignored when planning where to put the roads and they were often put right through their neighborhoods, or put up as a barrier to cut them off from white neighborhoods, because the ruling whites simply didn't care what African-Americans thought.  In many cities the highways were run through the poorest neighborhoods just to get rid of those neighborhoods.  They often put the "urban renewal" label on these projects when in reality they were destroying viable (if run down) neighborhoods, and leaving the inhabitants nowhere else to live.

I haven't read specifically about Buffalo in this regard, but there is an ongoing debate about what to do about I-81 through Syracuse, which has a long history.  They're in the beginning stages of tearing it down in the downtown area to restore the "community grid."

Great post. This, in combination with redlining, really did a number on black America, especially black veterans. 

[Doohicksie]

15 hours ago, #freejame said:

Great post. This, in combination with redlining, really did a number on black America, especially black veterans. 

I need to find the article I read a while ago.  Goes into a lot of depth. 

[Thwomp!]

Cities everywhere are trying to reverse these bad decisions made decades ago. Akron, OH is removing a large portion of their Innerbelt and creating a park. The highway was completed in its current form in 1987 and by 1999 was already being proposed to be removed. Long, but interesting article that talks about the destroying of neighborhoods and communities and the effects long thereafter for a highway that was severely underused and never served its intended purpose.

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/a-road-to-nowhere-how-the-construction-of-akrons-innerbelt-displaced-thousands/Content?oid=27096491

 

[matter2003]

They do realize that people have actually died from being blown off the bridge, right? Do they plan on increasing the height of the barriers to prevent that from happening with it having people actually up there doing stuff instead of just changing tires?

Edited September 20, 2019 by matter2003

[#freejame]

29 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

They do realize that people have actually died from being blown off the bridge, right? Do they plan on increasing the height of the barriers to prevent that from happening with it having people actually up there doing stuff instead of just changing tires?

Pretty sure it’ll be a manned attraction that will be closed in instances of high risk. I would imagine higher barriers as well. 

[LGR4GM]

 

[Pimlach]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 5:38 PM, Kr632 said:

Buffalo hates smooth flowing traffic. 

Buffalo has the smoothest flowing traffic of any major city I have been to, and I have been to many of them. 

 

The Peace Bridge is usually a mess but for the most part rush hour in Buffalo is more like l rush half hour - delays by the "blue water tower" LOL.

 

Traffic is not a problem in Buffalo but I will concede that taking down the skyway means they need another good route to get to south towns.

 

 

[Pimlach]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 2:28 PM, Doohickie said:

Following that tangent, there's a whole narrative about how post war race relations were in large part driven by the construction of interstates through the cities.  The African-American community was largely ignored when planning where to put the roads and they were often put right through their neighborhoods, or put up as a barrier to cut them off from white neighborhoods, because the ruling whites simply didn't care what African-Americans thought.  In many cities the highways were run through the poorest neighborhoods just to get rid of those neighborhoods.  They often put the "urban renewal" label on these projects when in reality they were destroying viable (if run down) neighborhoods, and leaving the inhabitants nowhere else to live.

I haven't read specifically about Buffalo in this regard, but there is an ongoing debate about what to do about I-81 through Syracuse, which has a long history.  They're in the beginning stages of tearing it down in the downtown area to restore the "community grid."

Interesting.  i have seen this in cities across the country.  Are the neighborhoods bad because they are near the interstate, or are they near the interstate because they are bad?    Also, when I see interstates run through upscale neighborhood I often see sound barrier walls and trees lining the walls on the city side. 

[Doohicksie]

In downtown areas, the routing of the freeways was often driven by where they could the land cheapest with the least amount of protest.  Think about it.

[erickompositör72]

37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Interesting.  i have seen this in cities across the country.  Are the neighborhoods bad because they are near the interstate, or are they near the interstate because they are bad?    Also, when I see interstates run through upscale neighborhood I often see sound barrier walls and trees lining the walls on the city side. 

In many cases (including the Humboldt Parkway excavation for the 33), the highways cut off and isolate (read: segregate) neighborhoods. When the Humboldt Parkway was in existence, it had many black-owned businesses that were frequented by traffic coming into the city. The 33 destroyed that.

It's basically a way for suburban folk to avoid having to mingle with urban folk.

[Kr632]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Buffalo has the smoothest flowing traffic of any major city I have been to, and I have been to many of them. 

 

The Peace Bridge is usually a mess but for the most part rush hour in Buffalo is more like l rush half hour - delays by the "blue water tower" LOL.

 

Traffic is not a problem in Buffalo but I will concede that taking down the skyway means they need another good route to get to south towns.

 

 

Never said we don’t have smooth flowing traffic. I said they hate it. They keep lowering speed limits, adding traffic lights that aren’t synchronized, adding stop signs where they aren’t needed, narrowing roads. 

 What part of the city do you live in. I’m near the 198 and Elmwood. Since the idiotic changing of the 198 to a parkway the traffic near me has been pretty bad. Can spend a half hour in front of wegmans on Amherst street on a bad day. Dont let there be a slow roll going on in the area. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Kr632