Camp Battles

[GASabresIUFAN]

What positions are up for grabs at camp? Who can win those jobs and who could lose them?

Using the Capfriendly.com roster we'll start with that playing field

Forwards (13): Eichel, Skinner, Okposo, Johansson, Reinhart, Sobotka, Sheary, Vesey, ERod, Girgensons, Larsson, Wilson, & Mittelstadt

Forwards candidates: Cozens, Routsalainen, Thompson, Smith, Asplund, Olofsson, Lazar, and Elie.

Defense (8): Ristolainen, Bogosian, Scandella, Miller, Montour, McCabe, Dahlin, and Nelson

Defense candidates: Borgen, Jokiharju, Pilut and Gilmour

Goalies (2):  Hutton and Ullmark

Goalie Candidate: Hammond and UPL

[Thorner]

Olofsson, Thompson - Up

Sobotka, Wilson - Down

Bogosian (and Pilut) to IR

Joki in IF Risto moved

*This makes 22 on active roster, leaving space for a Cozens audition, and a call-up after, maybe someone like Ruotsalainen or another extra D. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Despite the competition, I don’t see too many surprises on the 23-man roster.

Two guys under siege up front (Sobotka and Wilson) and one on defence (Nelson).

Might see a trade to open a spot though.

[dudacek]

To me the most interesting camp developments aren’t going to be about who makes the team, they are going to be about player deployment.

We’ve heard Botterill and Krueger talk about a few things:

1) simplifying and improving defensive zone coverage

2) starting and supporting the attack from the blueline

3) getting scoring throughout the lines

4) easing the load on Risto

5) having Sam drive his own line

6) in-house competition

7) putting players in positions to succeed.

But we don’t know what Ralph’s tendencies will be 

Will he roll four lines or does he like to play match-up? How flexible is he? Does he stack his lines or balance them? How about his D pairings? How long does he stick with his lines? How quick is he to shorten his bench? Will he anoint a number one in net?

Housley was very predictable. Ralph has a little more to work with. I think we could see a lot of surprises.

Edited September 9, 2019 by dudacek

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To me the most interesting camp developments aren’t going to be about who makes the team, they are going to be about player deployment.

We’ve heard Botterill and Krueger talk about a few things:

1) simplifying and improving defensive zone coverage

2) starting and supporting the attack from the blueline

3) getting scoring throughout the lines

4) easing the load on Risto

5) having Sam drive his own line

6) in-house competition

7) putting players in positions to succeed.

But we don’t know what Ralph’s tendencies will be 

Will he roll four lines or does he like to play match-up? How flexible is he? Does he stack his lines or balance them? How about his D pairings? How long does he stick with his lines? How quick is he shorten his bench? Will he anoint a number one in net?

Housley was very predictable. Ralph has a little more to work with I we could see a lot of surprises.

I agree with all of this, and it's very interesting to see how it'll unfold. Krueger is such a wildcard right now. 

Botterill has said, and it's believed that, while he does give input to his coach, he leaves it up to the coach to determine the lines, correct? After seeing how Housley managed the line-up, one would hope he'd be extra careful with this newest hire in that regard. 

[dudacek]

To me the most intriguing question is “Who ends up on Jack’s wing?”

I know most want and expect Jeff on one side. It’s one of the things Phil did that worked and over the course of the season it will probably settle in as the most likely combo.

But I have heard Botterill speak on multiple times now about spreading the offence around and there was that bit about Crosby elevating whoever plays with him Ralph knows Jeff and Jack works. I think we will see him experiment with a number of guys in training camp. 

Sheary and Okposo have produced with elite players in the past and never really got a shot with Jack under Housley. What about sparking the old chemistry with ERod? Olofsson and Thompson are offensive guys the team wants to grow into top six roles. Maybe Botterill acquired Vesey and Johansson specifically to play with Jack. Maybe Lazar or Zemgus is tapped to be the forechecker or defensive conscience. 

What krueger does here basically tells you a lot about what his philosophy will be.

Edited September 9, 2019 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To me the biggest question is “Who ends up on Jack’s wing?”

I know most want and expect Jeff on one side. It’s one of the things Phil did that worked and over the course of the season it will probably settle in as the most likely combo.

But I have heard Botterill speak on multiple times now about spreading the offence around and there was that bit about Crosby elevating whoever plays with him Ralph knows Jeff and Jack works. I think we will see him experiment with a number of guys in training camp. 

Sheary and Okposo have produced with elite players in the past and never really got a shot with Jack under Housley. What about sparking the old chemistry with ERod? Olofsson and Thompson are offensive guys the team wants to grow into top six roles. Maybe Botterill acquired Vesey and Johansson specifically to play with Jack. Maybe Lazar or Zemgus is tapped to be the forechecker or defensive conscience. 

I will quit this board again if this happens for even a second

[dudacek]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I will quit this board again if this happens for even a second

Even in training camp?

Hyperbole, or just based on what you saw from those two away from Jack last year, simply not worth trying?

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Even in training camp?

Hyperbole, or just based on what you saw from those two away from Jack last year, simply not worth trying?

100% hyperbole haha. 

It would reek of "I'm not watching last year's tape" a la Phil

But nah I won't care about lines until I see them on the ice in a regular season game. And I'd give it a second to make sure that KO and Sheary haven't bounced back. But if I got to pick the lines, there'd be no question about Jack's LW, and if there was, it'd be between Jeff, Olofsson, and nobody else

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I will quit this board again if this happens for even a second

I think there's a real shot Sheary gets a crack at it. My guess is they'll want someone strong at LW to help Reinhart with whoever the C is on line 2, so while I could see Johansson get a shot at 1RW too, my bet is he's at 2LW. 

Olofsson could seize the 1RW spot, but if he doesn't, or if they want him on line 3 helping Casey, could be Sheary at 1RW as I think he's a better fit than Vesey there. 

If Mittelstadt is at 2C, I bet Oloffson plays 1RW. 

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I think there's a real shot Sheary gets a crack at it. My guess is they'll want someone strong at LW to help Reinhart with whoever the C is on line 2, so while I could see Johansson get a shot at 1RW too, my bet is he's at 2LW. 

Olofsson could seize the 1RW spot, but if he doesn't, or if they want him on line 3 helping Casey, could be Sheary at 1RW as I think he's a better fit than Vesey there. 

If Mittelstadt is at 2C, I bet Oloffson plays 1RW. 

I'm already bracing for the fact that most of this season, I'm going to hate at least one of Jack's wings. If we tie two objectively awful NHLers to him because of tropes about Sidney Crosby I will blow a gasket in typical Flagg fashion

Sidney Crosby is the most elite grinder to ever play, and it's bizarre that he does well tied to Dominic Simon and Bryan Rust and poorly with Kessel, it's not the norm 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm already bracing for the fact that most of this season, I'm going to hate at least one of Jack's wings. If we tie two objectively awful NHLers to him because of tropes about Sidney Crosby I will blow a gasket in typical Flagg fashion

Sidney Crosby is the most elite grinder to ever play, and it's bizarre that he does well tied to Dominic Simon and Bryan Rust and poorly with Kessel, it's not the norm 

It is bizarre. As evidenced by even Team Canada's struggles to find him the right line-mates at international events, in more than one instance. 

[dudacek]

I wonder too if Johansson is here to prop up the 3rd line the way he did for Boston in the playoffs?

If you run two of Olofsson, Sheary and Vesey with some combination of Jack, Sam, Jeff and ERod in your top two lines, you’ve really put Casey in a prime position to succeed with Marcus on line three, and should have a huge upgrade to the Sobotka/Thompson combo we frequently saw as 3rd line last year.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wonder too if Johansson is here to prop up the 3rd line the way he did for Boston in the playoffs?

If you run two of Olofsson, Sheary and Vesey with some combination of Jack, Sam, Jeff and ERod in your top two lines, you’ve really put Casey in a prime position to succeed with Marcus on line three, and should have a huge upgrade to the Sobotka/Thompson combo we frequently saw as 3rd line last year.

Yup, this is what I was kinda saying with them maybe wanting Olofsson on line 3 to help Casey. It could be Johansson, too. But I really think they'll want one of the two there. That's why I think it'll be someone like Sheary (or Vesey) on the top line. It's also why a Risto trade for a RW makes a lot of sense. 

If Mittelstadt is at 2C, maybe it changes how they structure the wings. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Thorny

[MODO Hockey]

In my opinion V.Olofsson should play on Jacks right, we cant keep trying to help Mittlestadt, he need to figure his gameplay out.
To me he has not proven him self worthy of 2nd line center, he is just not that good.

We saw in the end of last season when Olofsson got to play with Jack, the chemistry is there already and it would be a waste to not use that.

The lines that i personally would like to see in the start of this season is following:

Jeff Skinner - Jack Eichle - Victor Olofsson
Marcus Johansson - Sam Reinhart - Evan Rodrigues
Jimmy Vesey - Casey Mittlestadt - Kyle Okposo
Conor Sheary - Johan Larsson - Tage Thompson 



 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

What krueger does here basically tells you a lot about what his philosophy will be.

This is the million dollar question. I do not think he will be interested in anything Housley did and so there is no way to even guess what it will be but I have this feeling that there will be some huge surprises. 

For me, Thompson on the opening night roster would be one of those surprises for me. I am truly hoping we will be good enough that he cannot make the cut. I have zero faith in him being significantly better. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think Sheary or Scandella could both lose their jobs here this fall, especially if Jbot gets a reasonable trade offer.  

I think Jokiharju or Borgen will force his way into the lineup and with Bogo possibly healthy someone will need to go and that suspect is Scandella.  

Sheary is in the same boat if both Olofsson and Thompson impress in camp.  He is not a 4th line grinder and PKer like Girgensons or Wilson.  He needs to play in our top 9 and won’t if Thompson earns a job.

[nfreeman]

52 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think Sheary or Scandella could both lose their jobs here this fall, especially if Jbot gets a reasonable trade offer.  

I think Jokiharju or Borgen will force his way into the lineup and with Bogo possibly healthy someone will need to go and that suspect is Scandella.  

Sheary is in the same boat if both Olofsson and Thompson impress in camp.  He is not a 4th line grinder and PKer like Girgensons or Wilson.  He needs to play in our top 9 and won’t if Thompson earns a job.

I don't think anyone will give the Sabres anything better than a low draft pick (i.e. 5th round or lower) for Sheary or Scandy.

[GASabresIUFAN]

19 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think anyone will give the Sabres anything better than a low draft pick (i.e. 5th round or lower) for Sheary or Scandy.

That might be reasonable if they take the full cap hit as well.

[rakish]

I think Scandella has negative value

[dudacek]

Does everyone think Scandella is done?

He’s only 29. Isn’t it more likely last year was a blip?

[nfreeman]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Does everyone think Scandella is done?

He’s only 29. Isn’t it more likely last year was a blip?

I don't necessarily think he's done -- I just think he had a down year last season, he's not cheap and he's covered in Sabres stink, and therefore no one is going to give up anything of value for him.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Does everyone think Scandella is done?

He’s only 29. Isn’t it more likely last year was a blip?

With Pilut injured, no but once Pilut comes back, yes. He isn't overly good at skating and his passing is just okay. He is a very meh defender and we need more. I would rather sit him and put Jokiharju or Miller on their off wing. 

9 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

In my opinion V.Olofsson should play on Jacks right, we cant keep trying to help Mittlestadt, he need to figure his gameplay out.
To me he has not proven him self worthy of 2nd line center, he is just not that good.

We saw in the end of last season when Olofsson got to play with Jack, the chemistry is there already and it would be a waste to not use that.

The lines that i personally would like to see in the start of this season is following:

Jeff Skinner - Jack Eichel - Victor Olofsson
Marcus Johansson - Sam Reinhart - Evan Rodrigues
Jimmy Vesey - Casey Mittlestadt - Kyle Okposo
Conor Sheary - Johan Larsson - Tage Thompson 



 

The 4th line worries me but I kind of like everything thing else. Johansson, Reinhart, and Rodrigues can all play center or wing so whichever one sticks gets his 2 wingers. 

[nfreeman]

I think it’s useful to boil this down to open roster spots and guys competing for them (assuming 13 F and 7 D).

Forward locks:  Eichel, Skinner, Reino, Jojo, Mittsie, Erod, Vesey. 

Forward near-locks: KO, Olofsson

Forwards competing for last 4 spots:  Sheary, Larsson, Zemgus, Wilson, TT,  Sobotka, Asplund, Cozens, Ruotsie, CJ

D Locks:  Dahlin, Montour, Risto, McCabe, Miller 

D competing for last 2 spots:  Bogo, Pilut, Joker, Scandy, Borgen   

So, that would be 10 forwards competing for 4 spots, and 5 D competing for 2 spots.

(NB that a Risto trade will likely result in significant changes to the above.)

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think Sheary or Scandella could both lose their jobs here this fall, especially if Jbot gets a reasonable trade offer.  

I think Jokiharju or Borgen will force his way into the lineup and with Bogo possibly healthy someone will need to go and that suspect is Scandella.  

Sheary is in the same boat if both Olofsson and Thompson impress in camp.  He is not a 4th line grinder and PKer like Girgensons or Wilson.  He needs to play in our top 9 and won’t if Thompson earns a job.

The thing about Scandella is that we are short on LHD, with a surplus on the right. Without PIlut, Scandella is number 3 on the LH depth chart. If Risto is here, even with Bogo injured, Jokiharju or Borgen is likely only getting in the line-up if they are put on their off-hand. 

I think Scandella is very likely to start the season in the top 6, as much as that'll hurt the defense. I would be a little surprised to see them make the gutsy move and demote the veteran in favour of Joki, especially with him being a righty. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Thorny