Sabres Announce Training Camp Dates

[Randall Flagg]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So the two second line centre candidates get first shot with the two best wingers. Makes sense for that battle.

I see them thinking that Marcus and Victor could join Evan, Jeff, Sam and Casey to comprise the other two lines and the team running, essentially, 3 second lines.

Fits with Botterill’s “scoring from each line” comment.

I'd be skeptical of any of those lines winning their matchups

[inkman]

On 9/11/2019 at 5:11 PM, dudacek said:

He’s big and pretty fast too. Apparently can’t play worth ***** though.

I have a morbid fascination with Jimmy boy this year because I cant remember an acquisition as universally panned here by people who pay attention. I’m picturing Sobotka without the left-side face-off skills.

This is patently false 

[triumph_communes]

Krueger is notoriously and self-admittedly stubborn with lines, as he believes players learn more hashing out problems and learning how to play with each other than swing dancing at the disco joint like our last two coaches would.  I wouldn't expect a whole lot of juggling, at least once the season starts.

[Randall Flagg]

On 9/11/2019 at 4:11 PM, dudacek said:

He’s big and pretty fast too. Apparently can’t play worth ***** though.

I have a morbid fascination with Jimmy boy this year because I cant remember an acquisition as universally panned here by people who pay attention. I’m picturing Sobotka without the left-side face-off skills.

Forget about our reaction - we're just fans. The Rangers are generally sensible enough with their trades. They didn't move McDonagh for Gomez, they got McDonagh for Gomez. They didn't give up Zibanejad for Brassard, it was vice versa. They got a first rounder for a Rick Nash having a terrible year. They acquired Trouba for a terrible defenseman and a pick, though that situation was obviously unique because of Trouba's demands. The point is, these guys don't usually get hosed in deals. 

Thus, I've also wondered just how bad Jimmy can be defensively such that this organization, which is lacking forward scoring depth as badly if not worse than we are, was happy to send a 17 goal guy who's "pretty fast" and big away for just a third round draft pick. They don't exactly have capable forwards lining up to replace him in those spots. What about Jimmy made them happy to do such a thing?

[LGR4GM]

I'm very curious to see what Jimmy can do. I don't hate the acquisition it just doesn't make a ton of sense currently because of roster construction. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Forget about our reaction - we're just fans. The Rangers are generally sensible enough with their trades. They didn't move McDonagh for Gomez, they got McDonagh for Gomez. They didn't give up Zibanejad for Brassard, it was vice versa. They got a first rounder for a Rick Nash having a terrible year. They acquired Trouba for a terrible defenseman and a pick, though that situation was obviously unique because of Trouba's demands. The point is, these guys don't usually get hosed in deals. 

Thus, I've also wondered just how bad Jimmy can be defensively such that this organization, which is lacking forward scoring depth as badly if not worse than we are, was happy to send a 17 goal guy who's "pretty fast" and big away for just a third round draft pick. They don't exactly have capable forwards lining up to replace him in those spots. What about Jimmy made them happy to do such a thing?

And then we stick him on our top line. Again, it’s one thing if he’s in a depth spot, but if we are taking a guy like that, and plopping him next to our star centre on what’s supposed to be our best line...come on now. 

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

What about Jimmy made them happy to do such a thing?

HE WAS A CANCER IN THE ROOM!!!11!!1!!!

[...]

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Those of us that go every single year do.  ( And have tried to catch a day of training camp every season going back to when they'd hold TC at Sabreland.). Really like getting to see the drills the coaches are running, what sort of tempo they have, and how the players interact on the ice.

In the past (prior to Harbor Center opening) they'd simply hold training camp practices at HSBC and if people showed up, so be it.  They'd have 1 concession stand open for the handful of reporters and the 40 or so fans in attendance.

Not sure if they'd turn people away that showed up.  Was going to try to get in, but between messing my back up yesterday and having to be about an hour east of home this morning didn't have the time / inclination to head into town.

I used to go, at least to the scrimmages when they were at NU or elsewhere.  Practice sessions, though, I don't know, it always seemed weird to me that they were open to the public.  The team-bonding is an intimate thing (for a team practice, keep the thread clean~!) and it seems to me people allowed to watch might interfere.  Also, if they're working on tactics, strategies, and other game-planning/improving things, why allow "spies" in to see that?  

On the latter, I get that after a few games, learned hockey observers could suss what's going on, but, maybe not, too.  

[LGR4GM]

If Jimmy Vesey was a year younger and played RW than I would be more enthusiasic. The price we paid is fine but he's another left wing on a team rampant with them. That is my issue. It is less to do with Vesey and a lot more to do with roster construction. He isn't a #1 lw because Skinner. We signed Johansson who I am assuming is #2 lw so that means Vesey is #3 unless he flips to the right. Hopefully Vesey finds his place on the team. 

[pi2000]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Jimmy Vesey was a year younger and played RW than I would be more enthusiasic. The price we paid is fine but he's another left wing on a team rampant with them. That is my issue. It is less to do with Vesey and a lot more to do with roster construction. He isn't a #1 lw because Skinner. We signed Johansson who I am assuming is #2 lw so that means Vesey is #3 unless he flips to the right. Hopefully Vesey finds his place on the team. 

...and he's a douche.

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, ... said:

I used to go, at least to the scrimmages when they were at NU or elsewhere.  Practice sessions, though, I don't know, it always seemed weird to me that they were open to the public.  The team-bonding is an intimate thing (for a team practice, keep the thread clean~!) and it seems to me people allowed to watch might interfere.  Also, if they're working on tactics, strategies, and other game-planning/improving things, why allow "spies" in to see that?  

On the latter, I get that after a few games, learned hockey observers could suss what's going on, but, maybe not, too.  

And, honestly, the scrimmage sessions aren't nearly as interesting IMHO as seeing the drills they were running and trying to figure out what game situation that particular drill was geared towards.

It also was fun to bring some of the drills back to my youth teams.  "OK, next up is 'the Sabre drill'."

The Sabres aren't overly implementing strategies and tactics onto the on-ice portions of camp prior to the Amerks / Juniors getting sent away anyhow.

And the disparity of the difficulty and pace between drills from 1 coaching staff to the next is remarkable.  Ruff 's TC drills were fairly comparable to his predecessors.  Rolston's were simpler than most of the base drills we'd run the Pee Wees through.  He definitely was concentrating on BASICS!

Nothing terribly notable about Nolan 's camps.  Bylsma 's drills were far and away the most complex.  Housley 1st year were quite basic; last year they were still fairly basic but run at a very high pace.

And all of these were typically based on a single day's drills.  Maybe all were more similar than observed in general; just the days they were watched might have been aberrations.

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Jimmy Vesey was a year younger and played RW than I would be more enthusiasic. The price we paid is fine but he's another left wing on a team rampant with them. That is my issue. It is less to do with Vesey and a lot more to do with roster construction. He isn't a #1 lw because Skinner. We signed Johansson who I am assuming is #2 lw so that means Vesey is #3 unless he flips to the right. Hopefully Vesey finds his place on the team. 

Thought they brought Vesey in with the intention of at least giving him a shot at being on Eichel's wing.  Looks like, rightly or wrongly, that's the plan.

And looks like Sheary's getting his shot that was expected last year now too.  (Again, no judgements of whether that's right or wrong.  It just is.)

And when Botterill makes pronouncements such as (paraphrasing) 'Reinhart should run his own line ' and 'Eichel should be like Crosby and elevate his linemates' we should believe he's serious.

(Any chance anybody overheard him stating 'Sobotka should be launched into the sun?' No? Rats.)

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Speaking of Skinner, he was not with Jack today.

Sheary - Eichel - Vesey

oh boy am i excited for the sabers this year guize

I'm much less interested or worried about the forward combinations at this point. Vesey and Jack play together in the offseason, Sheary played with Eichel last season (and Crosby back when Sheary was good for that playoff run), sure...  have 'em go a couple days at the beginning. See [edit: if] Skinner and Reinhart can drive their own lines. Forwards are of concern to me, Admiral.

But this... this is interesting to me:

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/sabres-training-camp-practice-groupings-september-13-2019/c-309104814?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Montour and Nelson, both RHD. Who's playing the left? Is Montour switching over to free up the logjam on the right?

Dahlin and Bryson, both LHD. Who's playing the right side? Dahlin played on his off hand back in Sweden, and last year for us. Is he moving to the left?

This is where the fun begins...

Edited September 13, 2019 by DarthEbriate

[Thorner]

Jack Eichel finished 12th in scoring for centres last season. The following are the most common wingers for each of the 11 centres who scored more than Jack did last season:

Sean Monahan - Johnny Gaudreau, Elias Lindholm

Sebastian Aho - Teuvo Teravainen, Michael Ferland

Mark Scheifele - Kyle Connor, Blake Wheeler

Claude Giroux - Sean Couturier, Travis Konecny (I think Giroux was actually at wing)

John Tavares -  Zach Hyman, Mitchell Marner

Brayden Point - Nikita Kucherov, Tyler Johnson

Aleksander Barkov - Jonathan Huberdeau, Evgeny Dadanov

Steven Stamkos (on line 2) - Yanni Gourde, Ondrej Palat

Nathan MacKinnon - Mikko Rantanen, Gabriel Landeskog

Sidney Crosby - Jake Guentzel, Bryan Rust

Connor McDavid - Leon Draisaitl, Zack Kassian

---

Crosby's linemates definitely stick out like a sore thumb relative to the rest of these elite centres. I'm all for moving Reinhart to his own line. But taking Skinner off too and asking him to elevate two of the other options is asking for trouble IMO. If Botterill is about to ask of Jack what is only asked of Sidney Crosby, I think he's making a huge mistake. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Jack Eichel finished 12th in scoring for centres last season. The following are the most common wingers for each of the 11 centres who scored more than Jack did last season:

...

 

Sidney Crosby - Jake Guentzel, Bryan Rust

Connor McDavid - Leon Draisaitl, Zack Kassian

---

Crosby's linemates definitely stick out like a sore thumb relative to the rest of these elite centres. 

Crosby's for sure. And Kassian! I bit. I had to look up the Concept of K's stats from last season (just the totals, not just while skating on McDavid). 15-11-26 in 79 games, 14 min/game.   And McDavid was running a 41-75-116 in 78 games. Something in the water does not compute.

[Thorner]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

Crosby's for sure. And Kassian! I bit. I had to look up the Concept of K's stats from last season (just the totals, not just while skating on McDavid). 15-11-26 in 79 games, 14 min/game.   And McDavid was running a 41-75-116 in 78 games. Something in the water does not compute.

Ya, I mean you'll find some of these guys only have one "good" winger. But Draisaitl did have what, 50 goals and 100 points?

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, I mean you'll find some of these guys only have one "good" winger. But Draisaitl did have what, 50 goals and 100 points?

It was the Draisaitl/McDavid show for sure... it just seems sad that they played "keep away from Kassian".

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

It was the Draisaitl/McDavid show for sure... it just seems sad that they played "keep away from Kassian".

They probably shuffled through a fair few wingers there, Kassian just ended up with the most of a bunch of guys with some. 

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Speaking of Skinner, he was not with Jack today.

Sheary - Eichel - Vesey

oh boy am i excited for the sabers this year guize

Krueger should be fired immediately for this.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Ho-Chi-Sock

[Randall Flagg]

54 minutes ago, Ho-Chi-Sock said:

Krueger should be fired immediately for this.

This genuinely never gets old

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About 4 hours ago the Sabres instagram posted a "story" showing Cozens trying to defend Dahlin down low in the offensive zone, Dahlin made him spin out like a top, and then walked in front and buried a backhand

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

This is patently false 

How so/which part?

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Forget about our reaction - we're just fans. The Rangers are generally sensible enough with their trades. They didn't move McDonagh for Gomez, they got McDonagh for Gomez. They didn't give up Zibanejad for Brassard, it was vice versa. They got a first rounder for a Rick Nash having a terrible year. They acquired Trouba for a terrible defenseman and a pick, though that situation was obviously unique because of Trouba's demands. The point is, these guys don't usually get hosed in deals. 

Thus, I've also wondered just how bad Jimmy can be defensively such that this organization, which is lacking forward scoring depth as badly if not worse than we are, was happy to send a 17 goal guy who's "pretty fast" and big away for just a third round draft pick. They don't exactly have capable forwards lining up to replace him in those spots. What about Jimmy made them happy to do such a thing?

 

I’m thinking about the two15-20 goal scorers Botterill got cheap the two previous summers. One (Sheary) was my least favourite forward on last year’s team not named Vlad and the other (Pouliot) longer plays hockey.

Beaulieu, Scandella, Berglund... he’s lucky he grabbed Skinner.

I need to results from his guys, this year. He can’t afford to whiff on any more veterans

[Taro T]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

This genuinely never gets old

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About 4 hours ago the Sabres instagram posted a "story" showing Cozens trying to defend Dahlin down low in the offensive zone, Dahlin made him spin out like a top, and then walked in front and buried a backhand

Have the lines / pairings of the 2nd session been posted?  Only saw the Eichel line listed so far.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, dudacek said:

How so/which part?

 

I’m thinking about the two15-20 goal scorers Botterill got cheap the two previous summers. One (Sheary) was my least favourite forward on last year’s team not named Vlad and the other (Pouliot) longer plays hockey.

Beaulieu, Scandella, Berglund... he’s lucky he grabbed Skinner.

I need to results from his guys, this year. He can’t afford to whiff on any more veterans

I don't like Vesey...but I have this funny feeling that this trade will be on the Skinner side of the spectrum more than the Sheary one at least. (Though obviously nowhere near the magnitude of the Skinner move.) I honestly think so much of Sheary's problem is how little/weak he is. But we'll see. The Rangers aren't a clinic on teaching forwards responsible two way hockey right now and never really were considering their transition game with Lundqvist in back

 

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Have the lines / pairings of the 2nd session been posted?  Only saw the Eichel line listed so far.

Honestly it appears everyone is slacking this year on the media end of things. Twitter Chad was at the practice and is the only one that has posted them to my knowledge. I'll go get 'em.

Sheary - Eichel - Vesey
Lazar - Rodrigues - Skinner
Elie - Cozens - Thompson
Girgensons - Larsson - Oglevie

[Randall Flagg]

Ooh, Yerdon got 'em.

 

[Andrew Amerk]

10 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Ooh, Yerdon got 'em.

 

Who is Sherry?