Sabres SHOULD re-sign Pommers

[LGR4GM]

We have holes on the right side and he is a very capable player even at his age. Ditch Sobotka and bring back Pommers. 

[darksabre]

I'm very here for all this pro-Pommers stuff, if only because so many people hate the idea.

[That Aud Smell]

Where would he play? 3rd line?

[dudacek]

He’s not getting a spot ahead of Eichel, Reinhart and Skinner.

We acquired Vesey and Johansson because Botterill thinks they are an upgrade and we are stuck with Okposo.

Do you want him to play ahead Mittelstadt, Larsson, Olofsson, Sheary Girgensons or Rodrigues?

Are we really better off going over the salary cap to bring him in as the 13 forward over Wilson or Thompson or CJ Smith?

Edited August 27, 2019 by dudacek

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We have holes on the right side and he is a very capable player even at his age. Ditch Sobotka and bring back Pommers. 

He was a very capable player for about 20 games last year and roughly a 1/2 season the previous year.  (Notice a trend?)  He will be a very capable player for about 10-15 games this year.

Why in the world would his being better than Sobotka factor into this at all?  Sobotka is no longer an NHL quality player (and wasn't last year either).

Ten games of the "good" Pominville isn't worth bringing him back regardless of how cheaply he can be signed.  YMMV.

 

[Stoner]

Incorrect.

[dudacek]

It seems like there is a scenario that exists where Pominville could be back depending on whatever play Botterill makes to deal with the cap and/or Ristolainen. 

If the door is closed, I think Botterill would have told him so.

Unless it is a player for picks deal, it seems to me it would have to involve a player like Sheary or Sobotka going out, because if we acquire a top six forward, there is no way we have space for him. I don’t know if there is space for him now.

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He’s not getting a spot ahead of Eichel, Reinhart and Skinner.

We acquired Vesey and Johansson because Botterill thinks they are an upgrade and we are stuck with Okposo.

Do you want him to play ahead Mittelstadt, Larsson, Olofsson, Sheary Girgensons or Rodrigues?

Are we really better off going over the salary cap to bring him in as the 13 forward over Wilson or Thompson or CJ Smith?

I would play him ahead of Sheary, Zemgus, Sobotka, and probably Larsson. 

 

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He was a very capable player for about 20 games last year and roughly a 1/2 season the previous year.  (Notice a trend?)  He will be a very capable player for about 10-15 games this year.

Why in the world would his being better than Sobotka factor into this at all?  Sobotka is no longer an NHL quality player (and wasn't last year either).

Ten games of the "good" Pominville isn't worth bringing him back regardless of how cheaply he can be signed.  YMMV.

 

The numbers don't actually bare this out. His goal scoring dropped off but unless I am reading charts incorrectly his shot generation and defensive play remained basically constant. 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I would play him ahead of Sheary, Zemgus, Sobotka, and probably Larsson. 

 

The numbers don't actually bare this out. His goal scoring dropped off but unless I am reading charts incorrectly his shot generation and defensive play remained basically constant. 

Not just his goal scoring, his point production in general fell off the map.

But I likely won't post more on Pominville unless it looks like Botterill might actually be close to signing him.  I've spoken my peace on it.

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I would play him ahead of Sheary, Zemgus, Sobotka, and probably Larsson. 

Sheary is the only one that’s debatable for me. He produces similar numbers, but dressing Pommer ahead of Sheary certainly hurts our  team speed. And then there is the whole issue of the cap and Sheary being under contract.

Girgensons and Larsson fill roles that are lacking in the lineup far more effectively than Pommer could. 

Sobotka isn’t making the team at this point, so that’s moot.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not just his goal scoring, his point production in general fell off the map.

But I likely won't post more on Pominville unless it looks like Botterill might actually be close to signing him.  I've spoken my peace on it.

The chart isolates outside influences on his impact. Pomminstein is a reliable NHL player. 

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sheary is the only one that’s debatable for me. He produces similar numbers, but dressing Pommer ahead of Sheary certainly hurts our  team speed. And then there is the whole issue of the cap and Sheary being under contract.

Girgensons and Larsson fill roles that are lacking in the lineup far more effectively than Pommer could. 

Sobotka isn’t making the team at this point, so that’s moot.

Not really. He scores similar numbers but that isn't the same thing. 

Please tell me what role Zemgus Girgensons has that Pommers wouldn't fill? Pk? nope, PP, nope, shutdown, nope. Pommers does everything Zemgus does but better and with some scoring. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

Debate away, we aren't signing him anyways but this narrative that Pomminstein isn't good is false or... incorrect. 

[shrader]

54 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He was a very capable player for about 20 games last year and roughly a 1/2 season the previous year.  (Notice a trend?)  He will be a very capable player for about 10-15 games this year.

Why in the world would his being better than Sobotka factor into this at all?  Sobotka is no longer an NHL quality player (and wasn't last year either).

Ten games of the "good" Pominville isn't worth bringing him back regardless of how cheaply he can be signed.  YMMV.

 

What if you sign him late in the year if the team is flirting with a playoff spot and could use some depth?  You save those 10-15 good games for the stretch run.  It may not be here, but I could see some team in the league taking this approach.  We typically see some of these kind of guys signed right around trade deadline time.

[woods-racer]

You can try and fancy stat the re-signing of Pominville as a positive, I will look at it as a step backwards if they do it.

If we can't find someone much better than Pominville to sign this team will be difficult to watch.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

You can try and fancy stat the re-signing of Pominville as a positive, I will look at it as a step backwards if they do it.

If we can't find someone much better than Pominville to sign this team will be difficult to watch.

Don’t worry, we brought in Jimmy Vesey. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Thorny

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Please tell me what role Zemgus Girgensons has that Pommers wouldn't fill? Pk? nope, PP, nope, shutdown, nope. Pommers does everything Zemgus does but better and with some scoring. 

Zemgus was a regular on a solid penalty-killing unit. Jason is too slow to kill penalties.

Zemgus is much better at the physical skills of defending: separating opponents from pucks, preventing clean pass receptions and getting in on the forecheck. He forces more turnovers and made fewer giveaways - led the team in takeaway/giveaway ratio. When is the last time you saw Jason be the first guy in, catch his man on the back check, or force a turnover?

Finally (for those, like me, who still think physical play has a role) he hits and makes the opponents pay the price.

Jason is a smarter hockey player, who can still play in the NHL under the right circumstances as an injury replacement top nine winger. He can anticipate and make responsible decisions. But he can only read and respond, he can’t influence play. He isn’t productive enough to be a long-term top-six winger and he isn’t hard enough to play against to play on a checking line or an energy line.

Edited August 27, 2019 by dudacek

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Debate away, we aren't signing him anyways but this narrative that Pomminstein isn't good is false or... incorrect. 

Not incorrect.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Pomminstein sighting.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.  Thanks SDS for this awesome autocorrect feature.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Not incorrect.

You, are incorrect. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Zemgus was a regular on a solid penalty-killing unit. Jason is too slow to kill penalties.

Zemgus is much better at the physical skills of defending: separating opponents from pucks, preventing clean pass receptions and getting in on the forecheck. He forces more turnovers and made fewer giveaways - led the team in takeaway/giveaway ratio. When is the last time you saw Jason be the first guy in, catch his man on the back check, or force a turnover?

Finally (for those, like me, who still think physical play has a role) he hits and makes the opponents pay the price.

Jason is a smarter hockey player, who can still play in the NHL under the right circumstances as an injury replacement top nine winger. He can anticipate and make responsible decisions. But he can only read and respond, he can’t influence play. He isn’t productive enough to be a long-term top-six winger and he isn’t hard enough to play against to play on a checking line or an energy line.

The difference is 21/11 compared to 18/13 in takeaways giveaways... so yea I'll still take Pommers with his 2 more giveaways over stone hands Zemgus. 

Also clearly if he's forcing 18 turnovers compared to 21 he's basically doing the same thing. 

The rest of that physical stuff is just nothing. It's the same argument for Risto. He's percieved as physical but that doesn't make his physicality good. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I still don't think that physicality is a real word.

The last time Jason (and I really do like him and think the Sabres should sign him if there are no other options) beat his man was when he went around Alfie and scored on that shorty break in 2006, yeah, I think it was in 2006.  Good times.

[Randall Flagg]

I used the words meek and pragmatic to describe Pominville's play, and I haven't moved off of them yet. 

No freaking thanks

[Stoner]

 

[Doohicksie]

While we're at, let's sign Vanek too.  Restore those glory days, yes sir.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

While we're at, let's sign Vanek too.  Restore those glory days, yes sir.

Some fans actually seriously want Vanek, Roy, Afinogenov and Miller back. Oh and Grigorenko.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Zamboni