The Roster of the Future - Jbot’s Vision?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Why would Cozens play RW? 

Because he plays both center and RW and if Mitts locks down the 2c role then Cozens goes to Jack’s wing.  

 

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why would Cozens play RW? 

Well, he might be good enough as a rookie to handle that #1 RW slot, but not good enough to beat out Mittsie for #2C.

[LGR4GM]

The problem I have with these ideas is that Cozens is a trigger man. His shot is very good. So we are going to put him on a line with Skinner and Eichel so he can feed them passes? It just doesn't balance in my mind. I would rather see him as the 3c if Casey is the 2c. Cozens has the potential to top out above Mittelstadt. 

[dudacek]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

The problem I have with these ideas is that Cozens is a trigger man. His shot is very good. So we are going to put him on a line with Skinner and Eichel so he can feed them passes? It just doesn't balance in my mind. I would rather see him as the 3c if Casey is the 2c. Cozens has the potential to top out above Mittelstadt. 

I understand the idea of breaking him in on the wing with good players but I would hope that would be a temporary thing as opposed to what they did with Sam.

Another thing with Dylan is he is a puck carrier. Really, through the neutral zone he’s a lot like Jack. They are both talented enough to make it work, but long-term that might not be maximizing their talents.I could see him being a good Ovechkin-style power winger, but his ideal partner would be a Backstrom-style centre.

He might look real good at centre with a Reinhart style winger.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I understand the idea of breaking him in on the wing with good players but I would hope that would be a temporary thing as opposed to what they did with Sam.

Another thing with Dylan is he is a puck carrier. Really, through the neutral zone he’s a lot like Jack. They are both talented enough to make it work, but long-term that might not be maximizing their talents.I could see him being a good Ovechkin-style power winger, but his ideal partner would be a Backstrom-style centre.

He might look real good at centre with a Reinhart style winger.

Yup. 

Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson

IDC - Cozens - Reinhart

Erod - Mitts - Something

Of course that is 3 years away and a lot can happen in that time. 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The problem I have with these ideas is that Cozens is a trigger man. His shot is very good. So we are going to put him on a line with Skinner and Eichel so he can feed them passes? It just doesn't balance in my mind. I would rather see him as the 3c if Casey is the 2c. Cozens has the potential to top out above Mittelstadt. 

No, not to strictly only give them passes.

But that line looks to possibly be a truly elite line along the lines of the current MacKinnon line or the Phlyers old Legion of Dorks line.

Any one of the 3 can finish & 2 are solid to excellent set up men.  Cozens seems to be good along the boards, Eichel can be good there, & Skinner is very effective back checking in the offensive zone.  That line would necessarily always get the opposing team's top D pairing and either their best shutdown line or their top line.

That would give Olofsson-Mittelstadt-Reinhart extremely favorable match ups.  And that line would be able to put up Pittsburgh or TO 2nd line numbers.

The idea is to get the best 6 forwards, the most ice time.  This allows for that.  Sliding Cozens to 3C severely cuts into his ice time and results in a Jordan Staal in Pittsburgh situation.  There isn't enough ice time to keep 3 stud C's happy.

And, should match ups dictate, they could always change things up temporarily.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No, not to strictly only give them passes.

But that line looks to possibly be a truly elite line along the lines of the current MacKinnon line or the Phlyers old Legion of Dorks line.

Any one of the 3 can finish & 2 are solid to excellent set up men.  Cozens seems to be good along the boards, Eichel can be good there, & Skinner is very effective back checking in the offensive zone.  That line would necessarily always get the opposing team's top D pairing and either their best shutdown line or their top line.

That would give Olofsson-Mittelstadt-Reinhart extremely favorable match ups.  And that line would be able to put up Pittsburgh or TO 2nd line numbers.

The idea is to get the best 6 forwards, the most ice time.  This allows for that.  Sliding Cozens to 3C severely cuts into his ice time and results in a Jordan Staal in Pittsburgh situation.  There isn't enough ice time to keep 3 stud C's happy.

And, should match ups dictate, they could always change things up temporarily.

Jordan Staal was never ever a stud. And that wasn't because of ice time. 

I don't agree with what you have said here. I think you are minimizing Cozens by putting him at wing. Also he would start at 3c, that doesn't mean he has to stay there. I also find it interesting no one is pondering the idea of moving Mittelstadt to wing with Cozens. Mitts is a solid passer and playmaker. 

Mitts - Cozens - Reinhart

Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No, not to strictly only give them passes.

But that line looks to possibly be a truly elite line along the lines of the current MacKinnon line or the Phlyers old Legion of Dorks line.

I'm sorry but if Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart aren't elite or combining to form an elite line than we have major team problems moving forward. 

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm sorry but if Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart aren't elite or combining to form an elite line than we have major team problems moving forward. 

If you don't have Eichel & Reinhart together  (and every lineup I've seen from you DOESN'T have Reinhart & Eichel together), you can't end up whining about somebody saying a different line would be truly elite.  And yes, Skinner - Jack - Sam is elite.  But the size of Cozens combined with his speed and other atributes gives that line the potential to truly 'pop'.

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Jordan Staal was never ever a stud. And that wasn't because of ice time. 

I don't agree with what you have said here. I think you are minimizing Cozens by putting him at wing. Also he would start at 3c, that doesn't mean he has to stay there. I also find it interesting no one is pondering the idea of moving Mittelstadt to wing with Cozens. Mitts is a solid passer and playmaker. 

Mitts - Cozens - Reinhart

Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson

Mitts is at his best in the 'phone booth,' wouldn't move him away from there.

[Huckleberry]

Just now, Taro T said:

If you don't have Eichel & Reinhart together  (and every lineup I've seen from you DOESN'T have Reinhart & Eichel together), you can't end up whining about somebody saying a different line would be truly elite.  And yes, Skinner - Jack - Sam is elite.  But the size of Cozens combined with his speed and other atributes gives that line the potential to truly 'pop'.

I think some people are forgetting Samson actually makes jeff and jack better, they are worser without him.

[Taro T]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

I think some people are forgetting Samson actually makes jeff and jack better, they are worser without him.

Thank you.

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If you don't have Eichel & Reinhart together  (and every lineup I've seen from you DOESN'T have Reinhart & Eichel together), you can't end up whining about somebody saying a different line would be truly elite.  And yes, Skinner - Jack - Sam is elite.  But the size of Cozens combined with his speed and other atributes gives that line the potential to truly 'pop'.

Mitts is at his best in the 'phone booth,' wouldn't move him away from there.

Questioning something is now labeled as whining? Fantastic. 

I don't have Reinhart and Eichel together for this season. A reunion in 2 years is possible depending on how things shake out. Moving Rienhart now helps to strengthen the other line. In 2 years you might not need that. You are focused on next year. The Reinhart discussion was about this coming season whereas the Cozens was about 2 or even 3 seasons from now... so something something the German's bombed pearl harbor something. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Questioning something is now labeled as whining? Fantastic. 

I don't have Reinhart and Eichel together for this season. A reunion in 2 years is possible depending on how things shake out. Moving Rienhart now helps to strengthen the other line. In 2 years you might not need that. You are focused on next year. The Reinhart discussion was about this coming season whereas the Cozens was about 2 or even 3 seasons from now... so something something the German's bombed pearl harbor something. 

Ok.  Show me where. ANYWHERE, that I have EVER said anything derogatory about Skinner -  Eichel - Reinhart.

Fine, you weren't 'whining.'. Apologies.  Then could you please explain what the point of responding with a statement of "I'm sorry but if Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart aren't elite or combining to form an elite line than we have major team problems moving forward" in response to "but that line looks to be a possibly truly elite line" in reference to Skinner -  Eichel - Cozens?  Especially in a thread where EVERY SINGLE PROPOSAL of lines you've made does not include Jeff-Jack-Sam.  (Where is the wall back emoji when one really needs it?)

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Ok.  Show me where. ANYWHERE, that I have EVER said anything derogatory about Skinner -  Eichel - Reinhart.

Fine, you weren't 'whining.'. Apologies.  Then could you please explain what the point of responding with a statement of "I'm sorry but if Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart aren't elite or combining to form an elite line than we have major team problems moving forward" in response to "but that line looks to be a possibly truly elite line" in reference to Skinner -  Eichel - Cozens?  Especially in a thread where EVERY SINGLE PROPOSAL of lines you've made does not include Jeff-Jack-Sam.  (Where is the wall back emoji when one really needs it?)

 

You gonna make it there? Seem a little tense. 

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

You gonna make it there? Seem a little tense. 

Where's the rolleyes emoji when one needs it?

Nice deflection of the question.  Care to answer?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

No, not to strictly only give them passes.

But that line looks to possibly be a truly elite line along the lines of the current MacKinnon line or the Phlyers old Legion of Dorks line.

This was written by you and refers to Skinner - Eichel - Cozens. I said that if another line we have seen (Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart) was not also considered elite that we have a problem on the team. This was based on your use of the word possibly which implied to me that we hadn't had an elite line. Hence why I responded the way I did. You then called me whining and then posted another long piece in which you appear to be yelling at me for some reason. You also tried to call me out because I haven't put the Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart line together for this year. I have stated multiple times that I would like scoring spread out this season. It maximizes the limited offense we could have. Going forward Cozens could change that dynamic making it possible for a Reinhart - Eichel reunion. 

 

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Where's the rolleyes emoji when one needs it?

Nice deflection of the question.  Care to answer?

Serious the ***** is your problem? Yes I do care to answer. Why don't you untwist your tighty whities and calm down. 

[LGR4GM]

There is 2 separate timeframes to examine. This season and seasons going forward. I would like Cozens to play at center going forward. This could facilitate an Eichel/Reinhart reunion when cozens joins the team, in 2020. In 2019, I would like Reinhart separated from Jack in order to help Casey and spread out the offense. This is also dependent on Cozens and Mittelstadts development curve which is an unknown. 

 

It was literally that simple but you took it personally because of some perceived slight against you that didn't even exist. Again, the word "possibly" implied to me we hadn't had an elite line and I suggested that if Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart were not an elite line than the team has major issues. It would because those 3 combined should be elite, if not we would be screwed considering how integral they are to the teams success. So in the end there were 2 disparate points being made. Cozens at center allowing Reinhart to reunite with Eichel (potentially) and the SER line being elite together. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by LGR4GM

[rakish]

31 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Thank you.

No, this isn't true. It really never has been, this is 2018 (of course not counting the last 3 games or so, which I haven't uploaded)

Eichel with everyone EV points/60 2.60

Eichel with Skinner 2.88

Eichel with Skinner and Reinhart 2.18

Skinner with everyone 2.17

Skinner with Eichel 2.21

Skinner with Eichel and Reinhart 1.86

The first 10 games of Eichel Skinner Pom, Skinner scored in the 4s and Eichel was in the high 5's.

 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This was written by you and refers to Skinner - Eichel - Cozens. I said that if another line we have seen (Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart) was not also considered elite that we have a problem on the team. This was based on your use of the word possibly which implied to me that we hadn't had an elite line. Hence why I responded the way I did. You then called me whining and then posted another long piece in which you appear to be yelling at me for some reason. You also tried to call me out because I haven't put the Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart line together for this year. I have stated multiple times that I would like scoring spread out this season. It maximizes the limited offense we could have. Going forward Cozens could change that dynamic making it possible for a Reinhart - Eichel reunion. 

 

Serious the ***** is your problem? Yes I do care to answer. Why don't you untwist your tighty whities and calm down. 

Liger, to the 2nd bolded, the original sentence I wrote in no way, shape, or firm implied ANYTHING about any other existing Sabres lines.  Go back and read it again.  Not for what you believe was written, but what was ACTUALLY written.

And, referring to the 1st bolded, your response in your original post of (paraphrasing here) well, Jeff - Jack -Sam are elite is different than what you posted here that I am currently responding to.. 

And nobody here, with the possible exception of you is upset.  You took offense at your post being viewed as whining and an apology was issued.  Relax.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, rakish said:

No, this isn't true. It really never has been, this is 2018 (of course not counting the last 3 games or so, which I haven't uploaded)

Eichel with everyone EV points/60 2.60

Eichel with Skinner 2.88

Eichel with Skinner and Reinhart 2.18

Skinner with everyone 2.17

Skinner with Eichel 2.21

Skinner with Eichel and Reinhart 1.86

The first 10 games of Eichel Skinner Pom, Skinner scored in the 4s and Eichel was in the high 5's.

 

No mas, no mas. ?

My question about the Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart combo is, how much of that time together includes when Eichel was recovering from injuries?  I could go back and figure that out, but if you have the data handy, I'd expect that there was significant overlap in the 2 and that that accounts for a lions share of any decrease in output.  (And if the data doesn't show that, I definitely bow to your analysis.)

?

[...]

24 minutes ago, rakish said:

No, this isn't true. It really never has been, this is 2018 (of course not counting the last 3 games or so, which I haven't uploaded)

Eichel with everyone EV points/60 2.60

Eichel with Skinner 2.88

Eichel with Skinner and Reinhart 2.18

Skinner with everyone 2.17

Skinner with Eichel 2.21

Skinner with Eichel and Reinhart 1.86

The first 10 games of Eichel Skinner Pom, Skinner scored in the 4s and Eichel was in the high 5's.

Interesting.

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

There is 2 separate timeframes to examine. This season and seasons going forward. I would like Cozens to play at center going forward. This could facilitate an Eichel/Reinhart reunion when cozens joins the team, in 2020. In 2019, I would like Reinhart separated from Jack in order to help Casey and spread out the offense. This is also dependent on Cozens and Mittelstadts development curve which is an unknown. 

 

It was literally that simple but you took it personally because of some perceived slight against you that didn't even exist. Again, the word "possibly" implied to me we hadn't had an elite line and I suggested that if Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart were not an elite line than the team has major issues. It would because those 3 combined should be elite, if not we would be screwed considering how integral they are to the teams success. So in the end there were 2 disparate points being made. Cozens at center allowing Reinhart to reunite with Eichel (potentially) and the SER line being elite together. 

The term "possibly" means simply, we've never seen that line together so we don't know how it will perform.  But it could be truly elite.  (You know, it possibly could.)

And, even when you took exception to Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart being dissed by a suggestion that Skinner-Eichel-Cozens could be elite (:rolleyes:), you did not suggest reuniting the 3.  This post of yours is the 1st time you actually typed out possibly (nuts, there's that word again ? ) reuniting that line in the future.

[Thorner]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:45 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because he plays both center and RW and if Mitts locks down the 2c role then Cozens goes to Jack’s wing.  

 

It'll be interesting to see if one of Mittelstadt or Cozens eventually moves to wing. Cozens has the better 200 ft game so I think he's almost the better fit at the C responsibilities on a line.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 10:38 AM, LGR4GM said:

The problem I have with these ideas is that Cozens is a trigger man. His shot is very good. So we are going to put him on a line with Skinner and Eichel so he can feed them passes? It just doesn't balance in my mind. I would rather see him as the 3c if Casey is the 2c. Cozens has the potential to top out above Mittelstadt. 

In that scenario it'd probably be Eichel feeding them both. Depends if you want two trigger men on a line or 1. Though Cozens can pass. 

On 8/23/2019 at 10:47 AM, dudacek said:

I understand the idea of breaking him in on the wing with good players but I would hope that would be a temporary thing as opposed to what they did with Sam.

Another thing with Dylan is he is a puck carrier. Really, through the neutral zone he’s a lot like Jack. They are both talented enough to make it work, but long-term that might not be maximizing their talents.I could see him being a good Ovechkin-style power winger, but his ideal partner would be a Backstrom-style centre.

He might look real good at centre with a Reinhart style winger.

Bingo. 

[Thorner]

On 8/23/2019 at 10:52 AM, Taro T said:

No, not to strictly only give them passes.

But that line looks to possibly be a truly elite line along the lines of the current MacKinnon line or the Phlyers old Legion of Dorks line.

Any one of the 3 can finish & 2 are solid to excellent set up men.  Cozens seems to be good along the boards, Eichel can be good there, & Skinner is very effective back checking in the offensive zone.  That line would necessarily always get the opposing team's top D pairing and either their best shutdown line or their top line.

That would give Olofsson-Mittelstadt-Reinhart extremely favorable match ups.  And that line would be able to put up Pittsburgh or TO 2nd line numbers.

The idea is to get the best 6 forwards, the most ice time.  This allows for that.  Sliding Cozens to 3C severely cuts into his ice time and results in a Jordan Staal in Pittsburgh situation.  There isn't enough ice time to keep 3 stud C's happy.

And, should match ups dictate, they could always change things up temporarily.

Skinner being the 1/3 who is NOT a solid set-up man, I take it. I feel like he could pass, but he just doesn't. 

And I'm ok with that. 

On 8/23/2019 at 11:28 AM, Taro T said:

If you don't have Eichel & Reinhart together  (and every lineup I've seen from you DOESN'T have Reinhart & Eichel together), you can't end up whining about somebody saying a different line would be truly elite.  And yes, Skinner - Jack - Sam is elite.  But the size of Cozens combined with his speed and other atributes gives that line the potential to truly 'pop'.

Mitts is at his best in the 'phone booth,' wouldn't move him away from there.

Offensive end phonebooths. 

[Thorner]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:19 PM, rakish said:

No, this isn't true. It really never has been, this is 2018 (of course not counting the last 3 games or so, which I haven't uploaded)

Eichel with everyone EV points/60 2.60

Eichel with Skinner 2.88

Eichel with Skinner and Reinhart 2.18

Skinner with everyone 2.17

Skinner with Eichel 2.21

Skinner with Eichel and Reinhart 1.86

The first 10 games of Eichel Skinner Pom, Skinner scored in the 4s and Eichel was in the high 5's.

 

> Jimmy.