Does Risto want out?

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's because you are equating ROR and Risto. I do not think they are eqiuvalent. One was a elite 2nd line center that 30 other teams could use. The other is a borderline top 4 defender with a limited appeal. 

But I’m not. I’m trying to make it clear that while the circumstances surrounding the deals are similar, the talent in each case is vastly different. 

And that’s my central worry on the matter: that our poor return on a good player is holding up our ability to get a marginal one on a not-good player. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Thorny

[Broken Ankles]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

But I’m not. I’m trying to make it clear that while the circumstances surrounding the deals are similar, the talent in each case is vastly different. 

And that’s my central worry on the matter: that our poor return on a good player is holding up our ability to get a marginal one on a not-good player. 

Or could it be that the ROR trade had a date specific accelerant that affected the return.   He took the best of what was out there, and this time there is none, and his evaluation of the return offered is not what is deemed acceptable.  Yet.  

[miles]

I watched the video interview when asked if he spoke about being traded and his response was to keep it between them

That sounds like there was some discussions, which could have been as simple as I'm tired of losing. If this team starts to win soon, which I suspect will happen within this year or next year, I don't think he will want to go. 

If the team continues to lose, I think he will

I honestly don't think he wants to leave, I thinks he wants to win

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Or could it be that the ROR trade had a date specific accelerant that affected the return.   He took the best of what was out there, and this time there is none, and his evaluation of the return offered is not what is deemed acceptable.  Yet.  

That could certainly be possible. Doesn’t really change or affect the plausibility of Botterill wanting to “improve upon” the return this go-round. 

As he should, really. Relative to the player. I’m just curious as to how highly he’s valuing the player this time around, is all. And if that may be affected by a less-than-ideal return last time. 

Makes for interesting discussion. If he’s trying to “knock it out of the park” if you will, with the deal, and teams aren’t budging. It’s just speculation. 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Thorny

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This is exactly what I’m worried Botterill is too focused on. Gun-shy about trading a poor player because he botched the move of a good one. 

This to me is the real problem. Too many people think Risto is a bad player. How in the heck can Botts make this trade and satisfy the masses? If he truly is a bad player then Botts likely won't get the return leaving this to look like another ROR deal. If Risto isn't as bad a player as a lot of people think and brings a decent trade value then people will say "we should 've just kept him" or "it's nothing special, just a hockey trade". If Risto goes somewhere and becomes decent and wins a cup....the sheet will certainly hit the fan.

Personally, if he stays I think he'll be alright if used correctly especially with the additions Botts made to the D. And didn't the analytics show that Pilut was able to at least make Risto look better? And if he gets traded....well that's alright too by me. Just get someone who wants to be here.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

This to me is the real problem. Too many people think Risto is a bad player. How in the heck can Botts make this trade and satisfy the masses? If he truly is a bad player then Botts likely won't get the return leaving this to look like another ROR deal. If Risto isn't as bad a player as a lot of people think and brings a decent trade value then people will say "we should 've just kept him" or "it's nothing special, just a hockey trade". If Risto goes somewhere and becomes decent and wins a cup....the sheet will certainly hit the fan.

Personally, if he stays I think he'll be alright if used correctly especially with the additions Botts made to the D. And didn't the analytics show that Pilut was able to at least make Risto look better? And if he gets traded....well that's alright too by me. Just get someone who wants to be here.

My desire to move him stems mostly from the need to upgrade the forwards, combined with the fact we have a surplus on defence. I’m fully expecting the return to not be massive for some of the reasons you’ve laid out. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

My desire to move him stems mostly from the need to upgrade the forwards, combined with the fact we have a surplus on defence. I’m fully expecting the return to not be massive for some of the reasons you’ve laid out. 

But a "bad player" likely won't "up-grade" our forward positions any more than trading Nelson or bringing in a Vesey.

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But a "bad player" likely won't "up-grade" our forward positions any more than trading Nelson or bringing in a Vesey.

When I say bad I’m referring to his underlying metrics. He does put up points so the hope would be there’s a GM out there who wants to ignore the other stuff. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Thorny

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

When I say bad I’m referring to his underlying metrics. He does put up points so the hole would be there’s a GM out there who wants to ignore the other stuff. 

Hopefully, LOL. 

But, I still don't see said GM giving us any serious upgrade to our forward ranks just on Risto himself.  Like I said before....if he stays, fine. If he leaves, that's fine too. The fact that Botts has made him expendable with the upgrades at D and prospects in system, is a big plus. Here we are talking about getting rid of a player we've pretty much relied upon for several years....and I couldn't care less either way, win-win situation. 

GO SABRES!!!!

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

But I’m not. I’m trying to make it clear that while the circumstances surrounding the deals are similar, the talent in each case is vastly different. 

And that’s my central worry on the matter: that our poor return on a good player is holding up our ability to get a marginal one on a not-good player. 

And I don't think it is. 

[TrueBlueGED]

3 hours ago, spndnchz said:

Winning. Changes. Everything. 

Except how good a player is. 

[#freejame]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I ignored it because I don't think it is the cause. 

 

1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Except how good a player is. 

Didn’t Risto put up great numbers while early in the season? I thought he had a monumental collapse that coincided with the Sabres. 

[Curt]

9 hours ago, WildCard said:

 

It’s not exactly a gushing exclamation of his happiness to be a Sabre.  Still seems likely that he at least openly expressed to the GM his dissatisfaction with all the losing, if not request a trade.

I think he is a professional though and is going give it his best effort.  Never doubted his work ethic.  He is definitely a useful player who can be an asset to a team, so if the right return wasn’t out there, I have no problem with Risto being with the team.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Risto wants to win plain and simple.  We are close to having a good team and he can be part of it but he needs to step up defensively.  

[Rasmus_]

Nothing in the presser was that shocking, and for a player who has been here since 2013-14, how wouldn't you want to see something change or want a different view of the ice.  If the package was out there, I'm sure Botterill would look at it.   A young NHL ready center of some type has to be the ask, one way or the other.  Someone who might not be "ready" immediately, but could push.  Who that centermen is, is beyond me.   

[LGR4GM]

@Thorny I will say that the next month will be interesting to watch with regards to Risto. 

[Stoner]

 

[Drunkard]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

 

If you hate to lose and throw a staged tantrum (Eichel) you are revered by the fans.

If you hate to lose and you express it in words in an interview (O'Reilly and Ristolainen) you are labeled as a cancer and everyone licks their chops at building mock line ups without you in them.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

If you hate to lose and throw a staged tantrum (Eichel) you are revered by the fans.

If you hate to lose and you express it in words in an interview (O'Reilly and Ristolainen) you are labeled as a cancer and everyone licks their chops at building mock line ups without you in them.

I build mock lineups without Risto because he is bad defensively and I think the other 3 RHD we have can be better. 

[Eleven]

54 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

If you hate to lose and throw a staged tantrum (Eichel) you are revered by the fans.

If you hate to lose and you express it in words in an interview (O'Reilly and Ristolainen) you are labeled as a cancer and everyone licks their chops at building mock line ups without you in them.

This is brilliantly observant--I'm not sure Eichel's tantrums are staged, though.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Eleven

[Drunkard]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

This is brilliantly observant--I'm not sure Eichel's tantrums are staged, though.

I was referring to that time when they had a bad loss and held a closed door/players only meeting then he waited until the end of the meeting when the media was about to come in and he started flipping tables and kicking Gatorade coolers or whatever he did. Maybe my memory is foggy but there was a time lag so his tantrum wasn't heat of the moment and immediately after the loss it was staged so the press could see exactly how frustrated he is with losing.

[Cityo'Rasmii]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I build mock lineups without Risto because he is bad defensively and I think the other 3 RHD we have can be better. 

If you were to happen upon a Risto bobblehead, would you impale him or merely remove his head?

Go Sabres

Edited September 13, 2019 by Cityo'Rasmii

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Drunkard said:

If you hate to lose and throw a staged tantrum (Eichel) you are revered by the fans.

If you hate to lose and you express it in words in an interview (O'Reilly and Ristolainen) you are labeled as a cancer and everyone licks their chops at building mock line ups without you in them.

This ain’t it. 

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I build mock lineups without Risto because he is bad defensively and I think the other 3 RHD we have can be better. 

This is it. 

Plus we need the forward help. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Cityo'Rasmii said:

If you were to happen upon a Risto bobblehead, would you impale him or merely remove his head?

Go Sabres

probably neither

[Doohicksie]

16 hours ago, TheCerebral1 said:

Someone who might not be "ready" immediately, but could push.  Who that centermen is, is beyond me.

You're describing Casey Mittelstadt to a T.