2020-2021 Lineup Thread

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

OMG, a VO-Strome-Sam line would get lit up against a team like Colorado. They might be the slowest line in the league.

Someone brought up Grigirenko. You could get him for nothing and I think he’d be a better acquisition.

Grigs is better than Strome?

[tom webster]

21 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Grigs is better than Strome?

I think he might be. He is presently considered one of top free agents available. He’s had a couple good years in KHL.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Grigs is better than Strome?

 

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I think he might be. He is presently considered one of top free agents available. He’s had a couple good years in KHL.

This is a joke right?

Grigorenko is slower then Strome.  He is almost 26 and his best NHL year was 27 points.  He is an very good KHL player at nearly a point a game, but that is the equivalent of a 3rd line NHLer in most cases.  As a point of reference, 27 year old Dmitrij Jaskin struck out in the NHL with a career best 18 pts.  He played his first season in the KHL this year and scored 31 goals and had 63 pts in 58 games.  Grigorenko  had only 41 (in 47 games) in his 3rd KHL campaign.  

Strome is almost 24 and had 51 pts in 58 games in 2018-19 and 38 in 58 this past year.  Grigorenko and Jaskin never came close to those numbers.  This guy is a legit top 6 forward.  Grigorenko and Jaskin are not.

Edited April 11, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 4/9/2020 at 8:44 PM, Randall Flagg said:

Strome-centered offseason I'd be okay with:
Skinner - Eichs - decent forward acquisition, nothing crazy
Olofsson - Strome - Reinhart
Johansson - Kahun - Cozens
Girgs/equivalent - Larry/equivalent - Okposo, where equivalent means I don't want prospects here, I want established NHLers that can continue this line's role, maybe Reaves or something if we can't keep these two. MAYBE I'd be okay with Lazar full time there.

This gives, for organizational depth and injury callups, Asplund, Lazar, Tage, Mitts. Different skill sets depending on who is injured, and Casey and Mitts can do what guys like Drew and MacArthur did in 06/07, which is probably where they should be right now.

Strome-centered offseason that would make me angery: 
Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart
Olofsson - Strome - Kahun
Johansson - Mitts/Cozens - Thompson
Asplund - Lazar - Okposo 

Very little depth for call-ups, too much in the way of players who have only shown to be bad at this level, way too much dice-rolling once again.

Your first lineup is unlikely to be cap compliant.  

Your concern about organizational depth is somewhat justified with the second lineup, except guy like Routsalainen, the 2 new college kids, Davidsson, Pekar, the one or two of Thompson, Cozens and Mitts, should all be in Rochester even with lineup 2.  Routsalainen's teammate Suomi would also add solid depth in Rochester if signed.  In addition, Jbot and Sexton has consistently found some AAAA players to add depth in the organization.  Guys like Lazar who stepped up, but also Dea, CJ Smith, and Leier.  I'm also going to predict that Buffalo's own Sean Malone may finally get a shot at playing 4th line minutes in Buffalo this coming season.

PS I also think there may be enough cap space to try to get a Toffoli if Jbot is interested.  If that happens you'll end up with 2 or Mitts/Cozens/Thompson in Rochester and that should really help depth.

[LGR4GM]

Dylan Cozens is not eligible to play in Rochester. 

The Sabres forward depth remains poor. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Dylan Cozens is not eligible to play in Rochester. 

The Sabres forward depth remains poor. 

Won't be 20 until Fed 2021.  He is making the Sabres anyway. ?

[LGR4GM]

Doesn't Tage need waivers starting this year? 

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't Tage need waivers starting this year? 

Yes.  He does need to clear waivers to be sent down to Ra-cha-cha in '20-'21.

So, expect him on the Sabres roster.

[LGR4GM]

On 4/11/2020 at 12:53 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Your first lineup is unlikely to be cap compliant.  

Your concern about organizational depth is somewhat justified with the second lineup, except guy like Routsalainen, the 2 new college kids, Davidsson, Pekar, the one or two of Thompson, Cozens and Mitts, should all be in Rochester even with lineup 2. 

So by process of elimination the only player that could potentially end up in Rochester is Mitts. Tage won't be waived and Cozens isn't eligible. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So by process of elimination the only player that could potentially end up in Rochester is Mitts. Tage won't be waived and Cozens isn't eligible. 

ok, I've had Tage and Cozens in my lineup for weeks.  I also pointed out previously that Tage will have to clear waivers.

One of the advantages of having both guys in the lineup is that it can free up money to sign a Toffoli or keep Larsson if Jbot is so inclined. 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

It would be so Botterill for us to force a bad player onto the roster because he was a main peace in Jason's defining trade

Last we saw Tage he still had miles to go in the hockey sense department to be considered genuinely ready to be a positive NHL player 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

It would be so Botterill for us to force a bad player onto the roster because he was a main peace in Jason's defining trade

Last we saw Tate he still had miles to go in the hockey sense department to be considered genuinely ready to be a positive NHL player 

That was 2 seasons ago.  He was doing very well in Roch and got recalled.  Unfortunately he got injured in his first game back in the NHL.  We have no idea what kind of player he has become, but considering his good play in Roch, my guess is he is much improved.

Edited April 13, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

ok, I've had Tage and Cozens in my lineup for weeks.  I also pointed out previously that Tage will have to clear waivers.

One of the advantages of having both guys in the lineup is that it can free up money to sign a Toffoli or keep Larsson if Jbot is so inclined. 

 

I know you have. I am pushing back on the idea of depth. We don't have it. The only offensive players from our system will be on the team this coming season with the exception of maybe Mitts. The cupboards behind them are very bare in terms of top 6 or top 6 potential players. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I know you have. I am pushing back on the idea of depth. We don't have it. The only offensive players from our system will be on the team this coming season with the exception of maybe Mitts. The cupboards behind them are very bare in terms of top 6 or top 6 potential players. 

I think that is true for most teams.  When you get a top 6 forward talent, they tend to make the NHL fairly quickly.  VO and Chi's Kubalik are the exception. We'll hopefully have another top 6 forward prospect from the draft and it will be interesting to see how Routsalainen and maybe his teammate (if signed) perform.  I think they are both top 9 talent, but are they better then we'll have wait and see.

Edited April 13, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think that is true for most teams.  When you get a top 6 forward talent, they tend to make the NHL fairly quickly.  VO and Chi's Kubalik  We'll hopefully have another top 6 forward prospect from the draft and it will be interesting to see how Routsalainen and maybe his teammate (if signed) perform.  I think they are both top 9 talent, but are they better then we'll have wait and see.

Carolina has 5-6 guys that have top 6 potential in there system right now. That is before this years draft. We have Cozens. I would say Vancouver has 4. 

My point is the up and coming teams, have that talent level being built, we simply do not. 

[Randall Flagg]

44 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That was 2 seasons ago.  He was doing very well in Roch and got recalled.  Unfortunately he got injured in his first game back in the NHL.  We have no idea what kind of player he has become, but considering his good play in Roch, my guess is he is much improved.

None of this counters the point that it would be so Botterill to be forced to write in a player who we only know for sure as bad, before we even get to see him play, because of waivers.

And he only played one game for us, but was just as deer-in-headlights, cripplingly-slow-processing-speed as ever. I'm not holding my breath 

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Carolina has 5-6 guys that have top 6 potential in there system right now. That is before this years draft. We have Cozens. I would say Vancouver has 4. 

My point is the up and coming teams, have that talent level being built, we simply do not. 

This doesn't get talked about enough. Our forward prospect pool is egregiously typical for a team supposedly now doing it the right way

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

None of this counters the point that it would be so Botterill to be forced to write in a player who we only know for sure as bad, before we even get to see him play, because of waivers.

And he only played one game for us, but was just as deer-in-headlights, cripplingly-slow-processing-speed as ever. I'm not holding my breath 

This doesn't get talked about enough. Our forward prospect pool is egregiously typical for a team supposedly now doing it the right way

It is one of my biggest fears for this team ever being good with Eichel. They don't draft good forwards. They basically can't outside of the top 2. 

[freester]

On 4/9/2020 at 1:23 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'd take him in a minute.  I don't think he is slow at all.  He is not a burner, but he is faster then Sam Reinhart for example.  

I also like that he has size.  Kirby Dach is essentially beating him out for the 2C job, making him expendable.  Chicago also is close to the cap and needs to re-sign their version of VO; 30 goal scorer Dom Kubalik.  What's also nice is that he can move to wing if Cozens develops as I expect.  I'd bet Chicago will want some cap certainty in the deal.

I'd trade Miller and something for him.  How about Storme and Koekkoek for Miller, Fitzgerald and Asplund?

I think most posters are underestimating the cost of obtaining Strome.  On HF boards I asked Chicago fans if they would accept Mitts plus either Risto or Montour and it was unanimous.  No takers.  Montours,  Mitts, and Ristos,  value are quite poor..  I know HF boards is not the end all be all but it gives somewhat of a point of reference.  Chicago is trying to shed salary, so Risto is less appealing.  Montour had a poor season stats wise and some of it may have been due to playing on the left side.

[shrader]

34 minutes ago, freester said:

I think most posters are underestimating the cost of obtaining Strome.  On HF boards I asked Chicago fans if they would accept Mitts plus either Risto or Montour and it was unanimous.  No takers.  Montours,  Mitts, and Ristos,  value are quite poor..  I know HF boards is not the end all be all but it gives somewhat of a point of reference.  Chicago is trying to shed salary, so Risto is less appealing.  Montour had a poor season stats wise and some of it may have been due to playing on the left side.

I bet none of them would have accepted Nylander for Jokiharju either.

[thewookie1]

20 hours ago, freester said:

I think most posters are underestimating the cost of obtaining Strome.  On HF boards I asked Chicago fans if they would accept Mitts plus either Risto or Montour and it was unanimous.  No takers.  Montours,  Mitts, and Ristos,  value are quite poor..  I know HF boards is not the end all be all but it gives somewhat of a point of reference.  Chicago is trying to shed salary, so Risto is less appealing.  Montour had a poor season stats wise and some of it may have been due to playing on the left side.

HFBoards hates Risto and isn't fond of Mitts. (Granted they are rarely fond of any Sabres players. Montour was a favorite target of the multiplicity of Leafs fans but once he went to Buffalo he was suddenly worthless)

I honestly wouldn't want Strome; he has never proven to be any good without Debrincat as his winger. Outside Buffalo, Chicago is likely my most watched team and while impressive last year; he's looked slower and mediocre at best this year. He's a lesser Sam Reinhart at center; they both have many of the same problems in skating speed and a penchant to vanish for stretches. He hasn't played a ton with Debrincat this year as well which has certainly been a net negative for both players. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

HFBoards hates Risto and isn't fond of Mitts. (Granted they are rarely fond of any Sabres players. Montour was a favorite target of the multiplicity of Leafs fans but once he went to Buffalo he was suddenly worthless)

I honestly wouldn't want Strome; he has never proven to be any good without Debrincat as his winger. Outside Buffalo, Chicago is likely my most watched team and while impressive last year; he's looked slower and mediocre at best this year. He's a lesser Sam Reinhart at center; they both have many of the same problems in skating speed and a penchant to vanish for stretches. He hasn't played a ton with Debrincat this year as well which has certainly been a net negative for both players. 

I'm not sure what people are expecting on a 2C we can acquire or sign.  We are looking for a 1 to 3 year bridge player to assume that role until Cozens or Mitts.  We are looking at guys like a Henrique or Strome or whomever else in the mid-tier 2C. 

[freester]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm not sure what people are expecting on a 2C we can acquire or sign.  We are looking for a 1 to 3 year bridge player to assume that role until Cozens or Mitts.  We are looking at guys like a Henrique or Strome or whomever else in the mid-tier 2C. 

You are correct, but we will have to give up significant assets to acquire a mediocre second line center such as Henrique or Strome. 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, freester said:

You are correct, but we will have to give up significant assets to acquire a mediocre second line center such as Henrique or Strome. 

How significant is "significant" to you?  The amount I would give up for Henrique is much lower than I would for Strome.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, freester said:

You are correct, but we will have to give up significant assets to acquire a mediocre second line center such as Henrique or Strome. 

Elliot Friedman has said that he doesn’t think that the price for Strome  would be prohibitive.  Take that for what you will.

[freester]

58 minutes ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

How significant is "significant" to you?  The amount I would give up for Henrique is much lower than I would for Strome.

Henrique has a significant contract.  I’m not sure what type of contract Strome is looking at given the market.  Contracts will impact the compensation. Chicago wants young cheap high end talent. Maybe Ryan Johnson or Mathias Samuelson?