2020-2021 Lineup Thread

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, freester said:

Henrique has a significant contract.  I’m not sure what type of contract Strome is looking at given the market.  Contracts will impact the compensation. Chicago wants young cheap high end talent. Maybe Ryan Johnson or Mathias Samuelson?

I’m curious why if this is true they would trade a “mid-range 2C” who is 23, with no arbitration rights and is under their control for another four years and who they can qualify for under $900,000.

Isnt that sorta the definition of young, cheap high-end talent?

Edited April 15, 2020 by dudacek

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, freester said:

Henrique has a significant contract.  I’m not sure what type of contract Strome is looking at given the market.  Contracts will impact the compensation. Chicago wants young cheap high end talent. Maybe Ryan Johnson or Mathias Samuelson?

I would probably move Johnson (high floor, low ceiling) for Strome (near ceiling, well past floor).  Henrique requires a decent sweetener from Anaheim or a cap dump from Buffalo.

[freester]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m curious why if this is true they would trade a “mid-range 2C” who is 23, with no arbitration rights and is under their control for another four years and who they can qualify for under $900,000.

Isnt that sorta the definition of young, cheap high-end talent?

Well I think at center they already have Toewes and Dach and some other prospects they are high on. 

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m curious why if this is true they would trade a “mid-range 2C” who is 23, with no arbitration rights and is under their control for another four years and who they can qualify for under $900,000.

Isnt that sorta the definition of young, cheap high-end talent?

Chicago is not the best run franchise. Their gm IMPO is not the best at managing talent and contracts. 

 

That said in the last 3 drafts, the top of the draft has involved Chicago taking a lot of defenders. Since 2017 they have used 1 pick in the first 2 rounds on a forward. It reminds me of someone...

[Thorner]

On 4/14/2020 at 1:09 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm not sure what people are expecting on a 2C we can acquire or sign.  We are looking for a 1 to 3 year bridge player to assume that role until Cozens or Mitts.  We are looking at guys like a Henrique or Strome or whomever else in the mid-tier 2C. 

I'm looking for an actual bonafide 2C that we haven't had since ROR. And there's too much assumption in the back half of that bolded sentence. 

[Weave]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'm looking for an actual bonafide 2C that we haven't had since ROR. And there's too much assumption in the back half of that bolded sentence. 

Abso-freaking-lutely.  We can't afford to gamble on any of our C prospects.  Get a real 2C, and if we end up with too many of them I am sure there is a market for one of them if we really can't plug two of them into the roster somehow.

By the time Cozen and Mitts are developed and showing they are a legit top half of the league 2C Jack will be 26 or 27 and more than half his expected career will be over.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Abso-freaking-lutely.  We can't afford to gamble on any of our C prospects.  Get a real 2C, and if we end up with too many of them I am sure there is a market for one of them if we really can't plug two of them into the roster somehow.

By the time Cozen and Mitts are developed and showing they are a legit top half of the league 2C Jack will be 26 or 27 and more than half his expected career will be over.

If it ever happens at all. Mitts is 50/50 to be a mainstay NHLer nevermind being counted on for one of the most important spots on a roster. I like Cozens the prospect as much as anyone, but what if it turns out he's a winger at the NHL level? Or if he's more suited to 3C? Or if, like you said, it takes a few years (and that's the best case) like it does everyone?

You'd think we'd be done with the "bide time until so and so is assuredly ready" argument, after all these years. Go out and get the player we need. Be a, you know, general manager of an NHL roster. 

Hey, the GM didn't even have to be in this position. But you can't trade the perfect answer away, and "bide your time" in replacing him. Seriously. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Thorny

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 Mitts is 50/50 to be a mainstay NHLer 

I agree with this.  I do not have optimism regarding Casey.  I am decidedly neutral on his possibilities.  For me, at this point if he develops into a good NHL'er it is a bonus, because we shouldn't be planning on it.

[dudacek]

So if we acquire a 2C on the off-season, is our best hope that Cozens is ready and we run something like this for our top three lines?

Olofsson Eichel Kahun

Skinner ??? Reinhart 

Johansson Cozens ???

Or even better, Cozens looks like Clayton Keller, Mitch Marner or Elias Petterson did in their D2 seasons and he runs with Reinhart and Skinner on the second line while our 2C anchors a true shutdown line like Peca did?

Edited June 23, 2020 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

Seriously who is trading a quality 2C to the Sabres (and for what?) in this climate/covid league scenario, and where is even the remotest hint that the Sabres are ready to spend ANY money on FAs of any kind?

It's going to be the rookies, Casey or nothing.  

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

So if we acquire a 2C on the off-season, is our best hope that Cozens is ready and we run something like this for our top three lines?

Olofsson Eichel Kahun

Skinner ??? Reinhart 

Johansson Cozens ???

Or even better, Cozens looks like Clayton Keller, Mitch Marner or Elias Petterson did in their D2 seasons and he runs with Reinhart and Skinner on the second line while our 2C anchors a true shutdown line like Peca did?

Our best hope without acquiring a 2c is this...

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Larsson - Kahun

Johansson - Cozens - Someone (Tage)

Zemgus - Lazar - Okposo

[sabresparaavida]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Seriously who is trading a quality 2C to the Sabres (and for what?) in this climate/covid league scenario, and where is even the remotest hint that the Sabres are ready to spend ANY money on FAs of any kind?

It's going to be the rookies, Casey or nothing.  

My source that told me to look for something exciting to happen before the Jbotts firing said that they are targeting Taylor Hall or Granlund in FA.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

My source that told me to look for something exciting to happen before the Jbotts firing said that they are targeting Taylor Hall or Granlund in FA.

Taylor Hall is major mistake. He will cost a fortune, he plays LW, and he will want 7 years and is already 28 (will be 29 before next season start). 

Granlund is interesting. I wouldn't break the bank to bring him in though and for no longer than 3 or 4 years. 

[sabresparaavida]

Agree on Hall. I was just saying that I think they are willing to spend.

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Taylor Hall is major mistake. He will cost a fortune, he plays LW, and he will want 7 years and is already 28 (will be 29 before next season start). 

Granlund is interesting. I wouldn't break the bank to bring him in though and for no longer than 3 or 4 years. 

Taylor Hall is interesting because he is very good; one of the best wingers in the game. He would instantly become our second-best forward and can drive his own line, and those things are likely to be remain true for the next four or five years. You have to kick those tires in this depressed market to see what it would take.

Hall at a Skinner contract is a major mistake.

19 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Agree on Hall. I was just saying that I think they are willing to spend.

They being the Pegulas, if I’m reading you correctly?

I wonder if the targets were set by the Botterill regime or by the owners.

[nfreeman]

4 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

My source that told me to look for something exciting to happen before the Jbotts firing said that they are targeting Taylor Hall or Granlund in FA.

Interesting.  Keep these nuggets coming please!

I will agree that a long-term deal for Hall would be nuts.  I'd be more than happy to give him a 5-year deal though (which I think would be the minimum he will accept).  I also think it's pretty unlikely that he comes here -- he's been in the NHL wilderness his entire career.  I expect he'll go to a contender.

I would also be pretty happy with Granlund.

FWIW, Hall will be 29 in November, while Granlund will be 29 in February.  I wouldn't want to give either of them more than 5 years.

As for the forward lines -- I'd like to see Skinner back with Eichel.  Skinner shouldn't need Eichel, but I think he does, at least psychologically, and I think RK needs to get more out of Skinner since the Sabres are dying for more offense.  So I would go for:

Skinner - Eichel - Kahun

Olofsson - [Granlund/other FNG] - Reinhart 

Johansson - Cozens - Ruotsalainen/TT

Asplund - Lazar - TBD

 

However, I don't expect RK to listen to me, so I expect to see Reino back with Eichel and Skinner back on the 2nd line -- making it all the more critical to find a good 2C.

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

My source that told me to look for something exciting to happen before the Jbotts firing said that they are targeting Taylor Hall or Granlund in FA.

Granlund is about the only UFA that makes potential sense at 2C though he's not an ideal fit there.  But that does still leave the glut of RHD that now could be used to obtain 1 more true top 6 RW which is an easier thing to pull off.  It also could set up a bit of an '06 style F corps as Johansson & Kahun slot into the 3rd line as very good pieces and it allows the 3rd piece of that line to be any one of the 3 Botterill acquired kids depending on which of the 3 actually earn it as Kahun or Johansson should be good enough at 3C if necessary to make that work.  Ideally, Larsson & Girgensons come back to keep the 4th line intact (or even better, those 2 come back & Okposo retires allowing a young guy making 4th line money to round out the line.  (Lazar 12th / Asplund 13th or vice versa.) 

Would rather see a trade for that 2RW than pencilling in Ruotsalainen or JBotts triplet though any of the 4 could possibly surprise or Kahun could fit there.

Fix the goaltending, and we're in business.

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Skinner - Eichel - Kahun

Olofsson - [Granlund/other FNG] - Reinhart 

Johansson - Cozens - Ruotsalainen/TT

Asplund - Lazar - TBD

Probably not that far off, but do you really think this line up could consistently win in the NHL? I don't. 

[nfreeman]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Probably not that far off, but do you really think this line up could consistently win in the NHL? I don't. 

Well, it depends on how well the 2C, Cozens and the 3RW play -- i.e. whether they can go from a 1-line team to a 3-line team -- and, more importantly, whether they get better goaltending.

If both of those elements come in, then yes, I think this is a playoff team.

 

[Drag0nDan]

20 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Interesting.  Keep these nuggets coming please!

I will agree that a long-term deal for Hall would be nuts.  I'd be more than happy to give him a 5-year deal though (which I think would be the minimum he will accept).  I also think it's pretty unlikely that he comes here -- he's been in the NHL wilderness his entire career.  I expect he'll go to a contender.

I would also be pretty happy with Granlund.

FWIW, Hall will be 29 in November, while Granlund will be 29 in February.  I wouldn't want to give either of them more than 5 years.

As for the forward lines -- I'd like to see Skinner back with Eichel.  Skinner shouldn't need Eichel, but I think he does, at least psychologically, and I think RK needs to get more out of Skinner since the Sabres are dying for more offense.  So I would go for:

Skinner - Eichel - Kahun

Olofsson - [Granlund/other FNG] - Reinhart 

Johansson - Cozens - Ruotsalainen/TT

 

Asplund - Lazar - TBD

 

However, I don't expect RK to listen to me, so I expect to see Reino back with Eichel and Skinner back on the 2nd line -- making it all the more critical to find a good 2C.

Agree on Hall... we already have 2 massively overpaid wingers, including skinners that will cost 9 mil well past his prime. And defensemen who will be coming up on pay-days.  

Regarding your lineups, I'd really try and get skinner and reinhart together.  Put them on PP2 as well.  Eichel with Olofsson and kahun should help both of them - if not you always have someone like Tage who could be ready to make a next step.  I just look at it like the 2nd PP unit was such garbage, and those 2 anchoring it could help.

I'm hoping both Tage and Casey realize its time to step up and earn their time this year.  JB coddled both a bit, and he's gone... so if you want to have a career its kind of on them at this point.

[nfreeman]

19 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Agree on Hall... we already have 2 massively overpaid wingers, including skinners that will cost 9 mil well past his prime. And defensemen who will be coming up on pay-days.  

Regarding your lineups, I'd really try and get skinner and reinhart together.  Put them on PP2 as well.  Eichel with Olofsson and kahun should help both of them - if not you always have someone like Tage who could be ready to make a next step.  I just look at it like the 2nd PP unit was such garbage, and those 2 anchoring it could help.

I'm hoping both Tage and Casey realize its time to step up and earn their time this year.  JB coddled both a bit, and he's gone... so if you want to have a career its kind of on them at this point.

I'd like to get a look at Skinner and Reino together too, but I think it's pretty unlikely that neither of them is on Eichel's line.

As for TT and Casey -- I am more optimistic about TT than about Casey.  It sounds like, and the numbers indicate that, TT was better in Rochester than Casey was.  TT's slapper is also a legit high-end NHL weapon -- something that Casey has not shown he has in his toolbox.  I think there is a pretty decent likelihood that TT becomes a good scoring NHL winger, and at least as great a likelihood that Casey washes out.

[Drag0nDan]

15 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'd like to get a look at Skinner and Reino together too, but I think it's pretty unlikely that neither of them is on Eichel's line.

As for TT and Casey -- I am more optimistic about TT than about Casey.  It sounds like, and the numbers indicate that, TT was better in Rochester than Casey was.  TT's slapper is also a legit high-end NHL weapon -- something that Casey has not shown he has in his toolbox.  I think there is a pretty decent likelihood that TT becomes a good scoring NHL winger, and at least as great a likelihood that Casey washes out.

Yeah - which makes me think CM gets packaged with a montour to try and get a player.  

[sabresparaavida]

Anybody have an idea what Granlund would cost?

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Anybody have an idea what Granlund would cost?

I don’t know if anyone does because of COVID. 

Contracts overall are definitely going to be squeezed significantly by the pandemic. I read a good analysis in the Athletic that said the pot will be reduced by about a third - under a stagnant cap there is about $1.9 million available per open roster spot as opposed to the typical $2.9 million.

How that will manifest itself is not clear.

Granlund signed a three-year deal for an AAV of 5.7 coming off a 69-point year in 2017. He put of 67, 54 and 30 points since and is 28. Zuccarello got 6 per on a 5-year deal last summer as an older but maybe similar-level player.

[Drag0nDan]

31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t know if anyone does because of COVID. 

Contracts overall are definitely going to be squeezed significantly by the pandemic. I read a good analysis in the Athletic that said the pot will be reduced by about a third - under a stagnant cap there is about $1.9 million available per open roster spot as opposed to the typical $2.9 million.

How that will manifest itself is not clear.

Granlund signed a three-year deal for an AAV of 5.7 coming off a 69-point year in 2017. He put of 67, 54 and 30 points since and is 28. Zuccarello got 6 per on a 5-year deal last summer as an older but maybe similar-level player.

With a static or downward sloping cap you can try to look at contracts on a scale of cap hit%.  I wonder if there will be more players taking shorter term deals to try and cash in on an upward slope instead.  I do think there's risk in that - especially going to a team like buffalo who hasn't had much success.  

If he's centering reinhart and skinner/oloffson then it might sound a bit more interesting as a player.  

This season will be very youth dependent though - what contributions does the team get from casey, tage, cozens and where do they fit?  Casey's tough to put on a 3rd line since he doesn't backcheck or play defense well, and isn't strong on the dot.  Do we want him starting in the defensive zone?  Probably not.  If we get the Tage/Casey of the past 2 years too, you can't really put them on jack's line either without essentially making it worse. 

Cozens with tage and johansson might work?  Again, it can get very draw dependent.  If lazar is their d-zone guy, is that line with okposo and larsson/asplund?  Where does asplund even fit in?  If he's not getting regular ice time he should probably be in the minors rather than being an extra skater here.  

Basically if you move reinhart off of eichel's line, who is playing in that spot?