Jake McCabe Signs 2 Year Extension 2.85 Mil AAV

[GoPuckYourself]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

I think you can make a similar list of problems for 95% of the 7-8D in the NHL, so perhaps people just don't see value in dumping him and assuming his place will be taken by someone better. He is a good puck distributor, which fits in with the blue line build. 

See I guess people just see things differently which I'm fine with but I see 95% of the 7-8D in the NHL who can do what Nelson does but many of them have a backbone which Nelson does not.

[Randall Flagg]

14 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

See I guess people just see things differently which I'm fine with but I see 95% of the 7-8D in the NHL who can do what Nelson does but many of them have a backbone which Nelson does not.

Like little Taylor Fedun, a Sabre castaway who's never checked a fly and found success (for a depth D) in 50+ games with a playoff caliber team in Dallas? 

Joakim Ryan on San Jose? Is he particularly gritty? 

Dean Kukan played the seventh-most games for Columbus defensemen and was just over a half a hit per game. I know nothing about his playstyle, but I highly doubt it's extra gritty. 

Hayden Fleury in Carolina, Igor Ozhiganov in Toronto, Christian Djoos or Madison Bowey in Washington, are any of these guys substantially grittier than Nelson? Are any of them substantially better hockey players? I'd definitely say that Djoos or Bowey are better, but they seem as soft as they come in my limited viewings. These are all successful teams this past season. I don't think it's that big of a deal that Nelson isn't super physical (though in general I don't turn away from people who want the Sabres to include more physicality in their game the way others may), and I can actually be convinced that your depth forwards/D are like backup NFL QBs - you want them to have a similar play style to the guy that starts, to have their strengths match those of your team, so that if they have to play, it's less of a wrench in the overall plan. Of course they won't be as good, but chucking Roman Polak into the Pittsburgh Penguins' defense when injuries hit is probably not as good of an idea as it would be with the St. Louis defense. 

And our defense is being built with a pretty clear emphasis on the thing that Casey is actually good at. 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[OhMyDahlin]

I believe Jake McCabe, Evan Rodrigues and Linus Ullmark will all be gone by this time next summer.

The Athletic did an article how the majority of players in arbitration cases usually get traded within a year or so.

It won't surprise me the least bit to see them all gone before the 2020-2021 season....unless they have incredible seasons, especially Ullmark.

(At this point, they've all been replacement-level players...but I hope they improve and end up here long-term.)

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Like little Taylor Fedun, a Sabre castaway who's never checked a fly and found success (for a depth D) in 50+ games with a playoff caliber team in Dallas? 

Joakim Ryan on San Jose? Is he particularly gritty? 

Dean Kukan played the seventh-most games for Columbus defensemen and was just over a half a hit per game. I know nothing about his playstyle, but I highly doubt it's extra gritty. 

Hayden Fleury in Carolina, Igor Ozhiganov in Toronto, Christian Djoos or Madison Bowey in Washington, are any of these guys substantially grittier than Nelson? Are any of them substantially better hockey players? I'd definitely say that Djoos or Bowey are better, but they seem as soft as they come in my limited viewings. These are all successful teams this past season. I don't think it's that big of a deal that Nelson isn't super physical (though in general I don't turn away from people who want the Sabres to include more physicality in their game the way others may), and I can actually be convinced that your depth forwards/D are like backup NFL QBs - you want them to have a similar play style to the guy that starts, to have their strengths match those of your team, so that if they have to play, it's less of a wrench in the overall plan. Of course they won't be as good, but chucking Roman Polak into the Pittsburgh Penguins' defense when injuries hit is probably not as good of an idea as it would be with the St. Louis defense. 

And our defense is being built with a pretty clear emphasis on the thing that Casey is actually good at. 

 

You nailed it for me right at the end there, you can say every trade Botterill made was for that type of player so why not keep a Mccabe around who can actually play decent defense? We have plenty of Nelson's already, now we need some toughness. The Bruins and Blues have a good mixture of both which are 2 teams I'd like to emulate. 

[North Buffalo]

I do think some of the younger guys have starting with Samuelson... but for right now, I'd keep McCabe for his toughness... he is a decent passer, sneaky shot and when healthy very good on D especially as Bogo ages

[Randall Flagg]

27 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

You nailed it for me right at the end there, you can say every trade Botterill made was for that type of player so why not keep a Mccabe around who can actually play decent defense? We have plenty of Nelson's already, now we need some toughness. The Bruins and Blues have a good mixture of both which are 2 teams I'd like to emulate. 

For the record, I would prefer keeping McCabe to Nelson too, though I think True was just illustrating how little he wants to give McCabe near what he asked for. 

And if we actually tried to emulate the Bruins or Blues, it would be another 3 or 4 years of rebuilding. This roster ain't close to that style of hockey. I'd prefer trying to do the best with what we have, and building on our strengths, that's really the way you win cups. The Pens didn't copy the Kings, the Kings didn't copy the Hawks. The Caps didn't copy anyone either. The Blues are like the Kings, except they're not, because they prioritize shot quality rather than shot quantity offensively. 

We need to find the thing that WE can be with Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, Dahlin etc. It's probably not Blues/Bruins style hockey, but it doesn't have to be. 

This also doesn't preclude your and others' desire to see a bit more "sandpaper." 

I struggle to really identify Boston's style - I see things in all three zones that don't speak to "big and mean" or "small and skilled" but rather "team play honed over 6+ years of being together and doing the same things." I see a team that has some high end skill, but more importantly, very good structure that allows players to know where their teammates are and where they are going without having to think about it. 

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Like little Taylor Fedun, a Sabre castaway who's never checked a fly and found success (for a depth D) in 50+ games with a playoff caliber team in Dallas?

I always kinda liked Fedun and definitely prefer him to Nelson.

[WildCard]

13 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

We need to find the thing that WE can be with Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, Dahlin etc. It's probably not Blues/Bruins style hockey, but it doesn't have to be. 

It's the Hawks style

[GoPuckYourself]

16 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

For the record, I would prefer keeping McCabe to Nelson too, though I think True was just illustrating how little he wants to give McCabe near what he asked for. 

And if we actually tried to emulate the Bruins or Blues, it would be another 3 or 4 years of rebuilding. This roster ain't close to that style of hockey. I'd prefer trying to do the best with what we have, and building on our strengths, that's really the way you win cups. The Pens didn't copy the Kings, the Kings didn't copy the Hawks. The Caps didn't copy anyone either. The Blues are like the Kings, except they're not, because they prioritize shot quality rather than shot quantity offensively. 

We need to find the thing that WE can be with Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, Dahlin etc. It's probably not Blues/Bruins style hockey, but it doesn't have to be. 

This also doesn't preclude your and others' desire to see a bit more "sandpaper." 

I struggle to really identify Boston's style - I see things in all three zones that don't speak to "big and mean" or "small and skilled" but rather "team play honed over 6+ years of being together and doing the same things." I see a team that has some high end skill, but more importantly, very good structure that allows players to know where their teammates are and where they are going without having to think about it. 

By emulate I meant add tougher players to the group we already have in place, there are very few teams with the build of the Bruins/Blues but like you said we don't have to be but I do think we have to add some more toughness to the roster and that doesn't mean trading for a goon like Lucic, I mean solid two way players like Tyler Toffoli of the LA Kings, he had a down year but has shown in the past that he can be a real asset plus was rumored quite a bit to be on the market. Guys like that just make your roster better, those guys who are good along the boards or clear the puck out of the zone can really make a huge difference imo.

When I look at Boston I see the grit on almost every line whether it's from Bergeron, Marchand, Chara you can name a bunch more . I see it in Eichel, McCabe, Risto, Bogo for the 4 games he's on the ice and then I don't really see it anywhere else. When I saw Nelson do absolutely nothing when he saw our captain get cheap shoted with an elbow I immediately wanted him off the roster, I've seen top scorers go after guys that cheap shot others just to let them know that won't fly, it reminded me of the whole Lucic leveling Ryan Miller back in the day.

[Randall Flagg]

35 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

By emulate I meant add tougher players to the group we already have in place, there are very few teams with the build of the Bruins/Blues but like you said we don't have to be but I do think we have to add some more toughness to the roster and that doesn't mean trading for a goon like Lucic, I mean solid two way players like Tyler Toffoli of the LA Kings, he had a down year but has shown in the past that he can be a real asset plus was rumored quite a bit to be on the market. Guys like that just make your roster better, those guys who are good along the boards or clear the puck out of the zone can really make a huge difference imo.

When I look at Boston I see the grit on almost every line whether it's from Bergeron, Marchand, Chara you can name a bunch more . I see it in Eichel, McCabe, Risto, Bogo for the 4 games he's on the ice and then I don't really see it anywhere else. When I saw Nelson do absolutely nothing when he saw our captain get cheap shoted with an elbow I immediately wanted him off the roster, I've seen top scorers go after guys that cheap shot others just to let them know that won't fly, it reminded me of the whole Lucic leveling Ryan Miller back in the day.

I'd love to add Toffoli. 

[PerreaultForever]

16 hours ago, Tondas said:

I think they do.  JBOT always says you develop and re-sign your own.  $3 mil is fair IMO.

By "your own" does JBot extend that to players who he didn't bring in or draft? I think probably not. The ask is WAY too high but also untradeable if he gets it. Zadorov was compared and imo that's way off. Zadorov is much better than McCabe. 

[Tondas]

49 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

By "your own" does JBot extend that to players who he didn't bring in or draft? I think probably not. The ask is WAY too high but also untradeable if he gets it. Zadorov was compared and imo that's way off. Zadorov is much better than McCabe. 

I agree, the ask is way too high.  But at $3 Mil, (if that's what the arbitrator comes back with) is not too much for McCabe.

As to the Zadorov comp, I think it's fair.  McCabe is 1 year older, had the same amount of points as Zadorov in 11 fewer games and also half the penalty minutes.  Both are 3rd pair guys on a good team.  I'll leave the analytics stuff to others.  But, I don't think that Zadorov is much better than McCabe.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Tondas

[sweetlou]

JBotts has to look to the future also when signing any player in regards to where such player fits into the depth chart and how long he projects to be there.  In McCabe's situation, where does JBott see him in three years in this lineup. The Sabres have a lot of young d prospects as well as up in the NHL right now.  Is McCabe a core piece and part of the future with the Sabres? I believe he is for this year and for at least the next three. Beyond that I don't know. Is he going to be passed up by Pilut, Samuelsson, Hickey or even Johnson at some point?  I don't like long term deals on defenseman unless they are super stars.  

Left side of d for foreseeable future is Dahlin, McCabe and Pilut.  Pilut will probable get a nice 2 year bridge deal after this season and again lets see how young prospects develop over the next couple of years. 

I think a 3 year $3-$3.25 AAV deal is fair for both sides.

[Skibum]

Way to shoot for the moon, Jake. I can't see him getting more than 2.75, and even that seems high.

[Brawndo]

Per Sabres PR 

Signs Extension 2 Years 2.85 Million AAV

 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Per Sabres PR 

Signs Extension 2 Years 2.85 Million AAV

So, all the gnashing of teeth over him getting $3+ was for naught.

It's a fair deal.

[darksabre]

On 8/2/2019 at 10:00 AM, darksabre said:

Seems to be the trend.

I'd put him at 2.8 x 2.

[GASabresIUFAN]

This deal is a steal for the Sabres. A top 4 D fro under $3 mill is a bargain in today’s NHL.  He now has two years to earn a bigger deal.  His deal is also up before expansion keeping us from having to protect him and if gives us two year to develop like Laaksonen, Samuelsson, Bryson, Pilut  and Johnson.  

Now sign Ullmark and make a final move or three to get the roster where it needs to be.

[nfreeman]

Does anyone know whether he is RFA vs UFA at the end of this deal?

[inkman]

A terrible take by PHam IMHO.  Being 500k over the cap is a quote "cap mess"?  Because of Larsson and Girgs?  The roster needs competent players at all positions. They are good 4th liners and great penalty killers.  What was his plan?  Fill out the roster with AHL scrubs?

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, inkman said:

A terrible take by PHam IMHO.  Being 500k over the cap is a quote "cap mess"?  Because of Larsson and Girgs?  The roster needs competent players at all positions. They are good 4th liners and great penalty killers.  What was his plan?  Fill out the roster with AHL scrubs?

 

Agree.  A cap mess is spending 80 mill on a dysfunctional roster when the cap is 73 million and having much of the cap hit on players on long contracts.

The Sabres have 35 mill coming off the cap after next season.  Not a cap mess.  The Sabres are currently over signed, but have two players being paid under 1.075 who can be sentdown (Wilson and Nelson) and erase their entire cap hit.  We also have another group at between 1.5 to 2.25 if they don't make the team who could be sent down (if not traded) and erase 50% to 67% of their cap hits.  

No the biggest issue we still face is not a cap issue, but a top 6 issue.  We are still a 2C short unless the plan is to use Johansson at center.  

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

We surrender!

[DarthEbriate]

I like McCabe. I think the roster needs a McCabe to balance out the finesse of Dahlin, Pilut, Montour, and Jokiharju. 

But as a GM... wow does this signing make for solid trade bait if I don’t *believe* in McCabe. 

[jsb]

47 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Does anyone know whether he is RFA vs UFA at the end of this deal?

UFA, it'll also end when Dahlin becomes an RFA

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This deal is a steal for the Sabres. A top 4 D fro under $3 mill is a bargain in today’s NHL.  He now has two years to earn a bigger deal.  His deal is also up before expansion keeping us from having to protect him and if gives us two year to develop like Laaksonen, Samuelsson, Bryson, Pilut  and Johnson.  

Now sign Ullmark and make a final move or three to get the roster where it needs to be.

Have to think his injury history really hurt him. Had he been Risto-Strong, he'd be getting 4 mil easy