Where Does Risto End Up?

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

That Dahlin clip reminded me what I prize most in a player.

Hands.

Speed and size are useless without good hands.

 

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Depends on how the team plays. If he is doing his job right he won't be getting slammed into the boards. Nid Lidstrom was 6'1" and perfectly effective in the modern NHL.  I just don't think 6' or 6'1" is small. Most forwards are that size. 

1st off Lidstrom is a sure HoFer.

2nd.  It is your prerogative to believe that a D doesn't need to be bigger that the F's he's going up against.  And, provided he has enough other quality attributes he doesn't necessarily need to be.  But, there is a reason that teams typically have D that are larger than that.

[Randall Flagg]

The biggest crime of the season was that Skinner didn't bury that pass

[North Buffalo]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I just don't understand how a 6' 195lb defender has a "size" issue. 

He doesnt necessarily... look at McKavoy or for that matter McCabe... must be an Mc thing, but both are physical and aggressive.  Even Briere was physical and aggressive.  It depends on a players ability to stay part of the play while engaging opposition ie not get knocked down.  TT is aggressive but I wouldnt call him physical despite his size last year.  We shall see if he improved with his added muscle... coordination with size equals physical and aggression equals more engagement to me.

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

1st off Lidstrom is a sure HoFer.

2nd.  It is your prerogative to believe that a D doesn't need to be bigger that the F's he's going up against.  And, provided he has enough other quality attributes he doesn't necessarily need to be.  But, there is a reason that teams typically have D that are larger than that.

How much bigger until it matters? Is 6ft Jokiharju going to be bad against 6'1" forward just because forward is bigger? I seriously doubt it. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

43 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The biggest crime of the season was that Skinner didn't bury that pass

I wonder why Rasmus didn't shoot himself?  It looked like he was in the sweet spot of the ice.

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

How much bigger until it matters? Is 6ft Jokiharju going to be bad against 6'1" forward just because forward is bigger? I seriously doubt it. 

Like said up thread, it's your prerogative to believe what you want.

?

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

The Blues owned the puck their entire playoff run. 

They 100% used the fact that they could body any opponent at will to receive and retain that puck. IMO it's a push between them and the LA cup teams for who was more effective on the boards, particularly down low. 

Teach us about Sissons! 

Nash 2012 draft pick.  Is 25, 6'1" 200, plays  RW or Center.  Has been, much like Erod, as slow but steady developer except is more goal scorer and less playmaker.  Wins a ton of FOs (53.5% for his career.)  Is an RFA.  Plays a strong two way game.  A perfect 3rd line two way player who will kill penalties and score 5 on 5.

[Randall Flagg]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Nash 2012 draft pick.  Is 25, 6'1" 200, plays  RW or Center.  Has been, much like Erod, as slow but steady developer except is more goal scorer and less playmaker.  Wins a ton of FOs (53.5% for his career.)  Is an RFA.  Plays a strong two way game.  A perfect 3rd line two way player who will kill penalties and score 5 on 5.

I'm not interested in the first round pick - I could probably be swayed into taking both that and Rodrigues out of the deal. Maybe adding something a bit smaller if we have to. 

Risto, something small for Bonino, Sissons? 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Like said up thread, it's your prerogative to believe what you want.

?

 

I just think we talk in such arbitrary terms when looking at height and weight. Some call Jokiharju small even though he's probably less than 1 standard deviation away from league average. Just seems silly to think he can't be as effective because of 1 inch and 5lbs.

[spndnchz]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I just think we talk in such arbitrary terms when looking at height and weight. Some call Jokiharju small even though he's probably less than 1 standard deviation away from league average. Just seems silly to think he can't be as effective because of 1 inch and 5lbs.

Exactly. He could be 4 foot 1 but does he produce?

[Curt]

I’m just going to throw some stuff out here with regards to the size, weight, heavy, physical, aggressive convo.

First of all, I want to share some basic facts about the size of NHL players.  The average NHL skater was just about 6’”1, 200lbs in 2017-18.  In 2014-15 the average D was 6’1.75” 205lbs and the average F was 6’0.75” 199lbs.  Size has probably gone done slightly since then.

https://theathletic.com/210035/2018/01/12/sizing-up-the-nhl-2017-18-nhl-teams-by-age-height-and-weight/

https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/03/05/nhl-forwards-vs-defensemen-height-weight-1917-18-to-2014-15/

Montour, Miller, and Jokiharju are all close enough to average that I don’t see their size being an issue worthy of an concern.  Pilut is the only defenseman who I would label undersized.  

In my opinion, there are many ways for undersized defensemen, or any player, to be effective against a larger opponent.  Mostly it involves being quick.  Quick passes, quick stick handling, quick skating, quick decisions.  Basically, you have to do something with the puck before the big guy gets on you.  In the inverse situation, quickness is still key.  The small player needs to get onto the big guy, and disrupt the play, before he is able to do something with the puck.  In the back and forth of NHL even strength gameplay, I don’t think size is a real issue.  It can definitely be overcome by being quicker.  

Where a lack of size can become a problem defensively is when the opponent has firm control of the puck in the offensive zone, such as when a good offensive zone cycle is established or when a PP gets set up.  It is in situations like this that there are the most purely physical battles, both in the corners on the cycle and in front of the net.  

A quicker, smaller team can limit how often these situations occur, but of course they can not be eliminated completely.  This is why I feel that any team is best served to have 1or 2 large D who can be trusted to play heavily on the PK and play important defensive mins.  Guys who can physically battle in the corners or in front of the net when needed.  There is a certain balance of size/strength vs other skills that needs to be met, even with these players.  I’m not going to place size on a pedestal above all else, but I feel it can be very situationally important.

In the case of Buffalo’s defense moving forward, we can start off with Dahlin (of course).  He is 6’3” and something like 190+ right now.  He should continue to gain weight and end up at 200+.  He should be able be a plus, size wise, and will play heavily in all situations.  Risto, if he remains on the team, adds size, but his ability to counted on defensively is questionable.  McCabe plays the style I’m thinking of, but I think I would like a little more size if I’m going to sacrifice some other skills.  I think the best bets in the organization for player I’m looking for would be Borgen and Samuelsson.  It remains to be seen what either will be in the NHL.

[WildCard]

Apparently the Flames had a deal with Toronto to acquire Kadri but, per an interview with Kadri, he nixed the deal in hopes of staying with the Leafs

That being said, if the Flames are looking for a 2C, I doubt they're out trade partner for Risto 

 

[Neo]

17 hours ago, SwampD said:

This is incorrect. There is not only one weigh to win, something which you seem to never get. Everything that a team is is the reason that that particular team won. They can be different from team to team.

“one weigh to win” ...  sublime, in context!

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

“one weigh to win” ...  sublime, in context!

I caught that later on, as well. I was going to fix it, but thought,... meh.?

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm not interested in the first round pick - I could probably be swayed into taking both that and Rodrigues out of the deal. Maybe adding something a bit smaller if we have to. 

Risto, something small for Bonino, Sissons? 

OK, Larsson and Risto for Bonino and Sissons, but this isn't really enough for Risto.  Bonino is more of cap dump and Sissons is a superior version of Erod.  This deal makes the money work, but not the value IMHO.  Nashville wold have to add draft pick(s) or a good prospect.

Lineup

Skinner Eichel Olofsson Vesey

Johansson Mitts Reinhart

Sheary Sissons ERod/Olofsson/Vesey

Girgensons Bonino Okposo

Still have 2 to many forwards in Wilson, and Sokotka

Edited July 12, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

OK, Larsson and Risto for Bonino and Sissons, but this isn't really enough for Risto.  Bonino is more of cap dump and Sissons is a superior version of Erod.  This deal makes the money work, but not the value IMHO.  Nashville wold have to add draft pick(s) or a good prospect.

Lineup

Skinner Eichel Olofsson Vesey

Johansson Mitts Reinhart

Sheary Sissons ERod/Olofsson/Vesey

Girgensons Bonino Okposo

Still have 2 to many forwards in Wilson, and Sokotka

Yeah, I would hope for more value in Risto, but if we did this trade I could be convinced that's the best value we could get. 

If your "too many forwards" are Vlad and Scott, just waive them. Not a difficult problem! 

[LGR4GM]

I think the fact that we are hearing the price for Risto is high coupled with the fact he hasn't moved shows that Botterill isn't going to trade him for 2 cap dumps, a mediocre prospect and a pick. 

Of course if he does I might have to drink. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think the fact that we are hearing the price for Risto is high coupled with the fact he hasn't moved shows that Botterill isn't going to trade him for 2 cap dumps, a mediocre prospect and a pick. 

Of course if he does I might have to drink. 

I want him to get as much as possible for Risto if he in fact trades him.  

However we still need a good center, be it a strong 3C or a legit 2C to make this engine go.  If he can’t get the right deal for Risto, Jbot is going to have to get creative.  I’d find our want Nashville wants for Sissons and if the price is right, I’d get him for the 3C.  I’d then move on from either Erod or Sheary to make the numbers work both cap wise and roster wise.  

I also wouldn’t mind if we don’t trade Risto, if we traded away Scandella to give Gilmour or Jokiharju a shot in the NHL until Bogo (if?) returns.

[LGR4GM]

Erod is superior to Sheary. I'd also waive Sobotka. He has no place on this team. 

[LGR4GM]

Also Nashville is going to need to add to get Risto for sissons

[pi2000]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Erod is superior to Sheary. I'd also waive Sobotka. He has no place on this team. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Also Nashville is going to need to add to get Risto for sissons

That’s fine, but as I mentioned up thread Sissons isn’t worth Risto.  The deal is going to be Risto plus a replacement forward (Sheary, Larsson or Erod) for Sissons, a cap dump (like Bonino) to make the numbers work and something extra to get the values right.  Someone like Tolvanen.

 

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Erod is a better player. The numbers back that up. 

 

[LGR4GM]

Sheary started something like 70% of faceoffs in the Ozone compared to 43% for Erod. Sheary might have scored more points but Erod is the better player.