Sabres Trade Alex Nylander to Chicago for D Man Henri Jokiharju

[LGR4GM]

I think it would be fun to see Dahlin paired with Jokiharju to start training camp. I want to see what that looks like. I think it would be fun.

[MattPie]

18 hours ago, Zamboni said:

I think it’s a little early in his development to be calling Alex Nylander a bust. But I know some like to slam players once they leave the organization. He MAY be a slow developer. It does happen once in awhile. Shocking, I know. We’ll see if the Chicago organization can develop him more and he turns a corner in a season or two ?‍♂️

It's just as (more?) likely he's Joel Armia or Grigorenko and not a late-bloomer.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, MattPie said:

It's just as (more?) likely he's Joel Armia or Grigorenko and not a late-bloomer.

Don't go dissin' Grigorenko.  PPG RS & playoffs in KHL this past season.  After never having been close to that (even in his other KHL season).  (Thanks @rakish for that heads up.)

[Drunkard]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

he just needs Risto to get traded.  Bogo starts on IR, and Nelson resumes his role of 4th RHD.  Jokiharju then jumps into the 3rd RHD role and then we'll see how he plays and how long it takes Bogo to get ready.  

I know it's a crazy concept, but maybe it would be better for the overall performance of the team if players had to earn their spots instead of just trading away players who are better to make room for younger ones who aren't as good yet. I hear winning teams do this all the time.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

I know it's a crazy concept, but maybe it would be better for the overall performance of the team if players had to earn their spots instead of just trading away players who are better to make room for younger ones who aren't as good yet. I hear winning teams do this all the time.

Well when Ristolianen gets "good" at playing defense, you let me know. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

I know it's a crazy concept, but maybe it would be better for the overall performance of the team if players had to earn their spots instead of just trading away players who are better to make room for younger ones who aren't as good yet. I hear winning teams do this all the time.

Sometimes you have to trade from depth to fill holes in your lineup.  Risto’s 1st line status is now gone and so to will his place on the top PP.  

[Drunkard]

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sometimes you have to trade from depth to fill holes in your lineup.  Risto’s 1st line status is now gone and so to will his place on the top PP.  

We'll see if Krueger agrees. Just because Botterill has managed to assemble a small army of warm bodies who play defense doesn't mean any of them will be good enough to take Ristolainen's spot in the lineup this season. And given his track record of what he considers valuable depth, I don't think Ristolainen has much reason to sweat it.

I'd say I like Ristolainen's chances at keeping a spot in the top 4 and a spot on the power play (maybe he'll drop down to 2nd unit, I don't know if Krueger prefers to play just one defenseman per unit or any of that so we'll see). I'd personally be happy to see his usage reduced from being treated like the love child of Shea Weber and Bobby Orr to that of a typical top 4 defenseman.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Drunkard

[Drunkard]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Well when Ristolianen gets "good" at playing defense, you let me know. 

You could say the same thing about all of our defenders except for Dahlin. All of the FNG's Botterill has brought in seem to be puck movers not the traditional stay at home, clog the passing lanes, lifting sticks, and clear the crease type guys. Why should Ristolainen be held to a higher standard than Montour, Miller, Bogosian, McCabe, Jokiharju, or the rest of the lot?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I know it's a crazy concept, but maybe it would be better for the overall performance of the team if players had to earn their spots instead of just trading away players who are better to make room for younger ones who aren't as good yet. I hear winning teams do this all the time.

It certainly is a "crazy concept".....being a winning team.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Well when Ristolianen gets "good" at playing defense, you let me know. 

If he sucks so bad, then we won't get anything decent in return. Plus for being so bad, he earns too much money. We are stuck with him...good! 

[WildCard]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

If he sucks so bad, then we won't get anything decent in return. Plus for being so bad, he earns too much money. We are stuck with him...good! 

Adam Larsson got Taylor Hall. There are certainly dumb GMs out there

[Drunkard]

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Adam Larsson got Taylor Hall. There are certainly dumb GMs out there

It's too bad our GM resembles that remark. If he didn't he wouldn't need to trade Ristolainen to fix his 2C mistake.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

20 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If he sucks so bad, then we won't get anything decent in return. Plus for being so bad, he earns too much money. We are stuck with him...good! 

Too bad we got rid of Nylander. Maybe we could've put a package deal together like Risto, KO, Sobotka, Nylander, and a 1st for ROR.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Drunkard said:

We'll see if Krueger agrees. Just because Botterill has managed to assemble a small army of warm bodies who play defense doesn't mean any of them will be good enough to take Ristolainen's spot in the lineup this season. And given his track record of what he considers valuable depth, I don't think Ristolainen has much reason to sweat it.

Agree with the sentiment of the first sentence. Risto’s horribleness in the court of public opinion has reached mythic proportions and far outstrips what he actually does.

As to the second, Miller and Montour are hardly Tennyson, and Jokiharju is highest-rated D prospect the Sabres have had since, well, Risto. Seeing what Scandella was last year however, saying “show me” is certainly fair.

Edited July 16, 2019 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Drunkard said:

You could say the same thing about all of our defenders except for Dahlin. All of the FNG's Botterill has brought in seem to be puck movers not the traditional stay at home, clog the passing lanes, lifting sticks, and clear the crease type guys. Why should Ristolainen be held to a higher standard than Montour, Miller, Bogosian, McCabe, Jokiharju, or the rest of the lot?

Higher standard? He literally ***** defends worse 5v5 than every single guy you listed. He's a defensive trainwreck. Like I said, when he gets good defensively let me know. Until then I won't really care if we improve the top 6 by trading him. 

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If he sucks so bad, then we won't get anything decent in return. Plus for being so bad, he earns too much money. We are stuck with him...good! 

I wanna call this post out specifically for the trope it is using. Just because a player is bad doesn't mean everyone values them the same. It's basic logic. 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agree with the sentiment of the first sentence. Risto’s horribleness in the court of public opinion has reached mythic proportions and far outstrips what he actually does.

As to the second, Miller and Montour are hardly Tennyson, and Jokiharju is highest-rated D prospect the Sabres have had since, well, Risto. Seeing what Scandella was last year however, saying “show me” is certainly fair.

No he's actually awful defensively. 

And the highest rated D prospect since Risto was Dahlin. Jokiharju is solid defensively, something Risto after 6 seasons and 400 games, hasn't shown. 

[Drunkard]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agree with the sentiment of the first sentence. Risto’s horribleness in the court of public opinion has reached mythic proportions and far outstrips what he actually does.

As to the second, Miller and Montour are hardly Tennyson, and Jokiharju is highest-rated D prospect the Sabres have had since, well, Risto. Seeing what Scandella was last year however, saying “show me” is certainly fair.

The valuable depth was more of a reference to thinking Berglund and Sobotka had any sort of value whatsoever. I have more faith in his defensive pickups (you basically have to) but it doesn't mean any of them will be ready to replace Ristolainen this season. I'd rather not see them get rushed into a position they aren't ready for anyway. That's what happened with Mittelstadt.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Drunkard said:

The valuable depth was more of a reference to thinking Berglund and Sobotka had any sort of value whatsoever. I have more faith in his defensive pickups (you basically have to) but it doesn't mean any of them will be ready to replace Ristolainen this season. I'd rather not see them get rushed into a position they aren't ready for anyway. That's what happened with Mittelstadt.

Montour and Miller are both NHL veterans. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agree with the sentiment of the first sentence. Risto’s horribleness in the court of public opinion has reached mythic proportions and far outstrips what he actually does.

As to the second, Miller and Montour are hardly Tennyson, and Jokiharju is highest-rated D prospect the Sabres have had since, well, Risto. Seeing what Scandella was last year however, saying “show me” is certainly fair.

I wouldn't mind keeping Risto around if played every game like he does against Ovi, love watching those battles.

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No he's actually awful defensively. 

And the highest rated D prospect since Risto was Dahlin. Jokiharju is solid defensively, something Risto after 6 seasons and 400 games, hasn't shown. 

Oh, yeah, I guess Dahlin technically was a “prospect” for three months or so.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Oh, yeah, I guess Dahlin technically was a “prospect” for three months or so.

As was Risto

[bob_sauve28]

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I wanna call this post out specifically for the trope it is using. Just because a player is bad doesn't mean everyone values them the same. It's basic logic. 

Its basic logic that if he sucks and makes a lot of money that other teams wouldn't want him. If you are saying we can dump a bad player with a high salary and get a really good forward in return I'd have to question your logic. Something in there doesn't add up. 

[Curt]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Its basic logic that if he sucks and makes a lot of money that other teams wouldn't want him. If you are saying we can dump a bad player with a high salary and get a really good forward in return I'd have to question your logic. Something in there doesn't add up. 

Some people here think Risto is good.  Other people here think Risto is bad.  

Perhaps there GMs who think he is good.  Perhaps one of those GMs would like to trade a good player for Risto.

The whole idea revolves around the concept that there are differing opinions on how good Risto is.

Hope this helped.

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Some people here think Risto is good.  Other people here think Risto is bad.  

Perhaps there GMs who think he is good.  Perhaps one of those GMs would like to trade a good player for Risto.

The whole idea revolves around the concept that there are differing opinions on how good Risto is.

Hope this helped.

Every year we have to run some player out of town. I'm sick of it. I remember Andreychuck getting run out of here, too soft, ya know. Turgeon was a TinMan, or something, ROR for some reason, Tyler Myers, now Risto. 

Hes our only physical d-man, he isn't really injured much, decent salary for three years and is offensively gifted. Just admit he's a good player and it will be a loss if we lose him. I kind of doubt many professional hockey people see Risto as a total waste of a player 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Every year we have to run some player out of town. I'm sick of it. I remember Andreychuck getting run out of here, too soft, ya know. Turgeon was a TinMan, or something, ROR for some reason, Tyler Myers, now Risto. 

Hes our only physical d-man, he isn't really injured much, decent salary for three years and is offensively gifted. Just admit he's a good player and it will be a loss if we lose him. I kind of doubt many professional hockey people see Risto as a total waste of a player 

No I won't admit that. Idc if he's physical if he's a defensive liability. Half his points came on the pp last year. So sure he has offensive gifts but that's all negated by how terrible he is in his own zone. Sure you get those games where he shuts down ovi but you also get games where he coughs the puck up. He's a mediocre defender who is really good on the pp... the #1 pp which he will most likely not play on.