2020 Draft Rankings Not Soon Enough...

[Curt]

23 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Rossi has some impressive skills but I'd prefer to see us add some size and grit along with the skill. Our initial 2nd line could have been quite impressive if it had a true power forward on it rather than Sobodka. 

He doesn’t have size, obviously, but he has grit.  That’s part of the reason that I’m a believer in him, despite his size.

Additionally, he is 5’9”, but he is pretty thick, low center of gravity.  Its a bit of a mitigating factor.

[LGR4GM]

Craig's List, Jan 2020

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-tim-stutzle-marco-rossi-climb-nhl-draft-rankings-1.1427810

[Curt]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Craig's List, Jan 2020

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-tim-stutzle-marco-rossi-climb-nhl-draft-rankings-1.1427810

In there it says that Rossi is 5’8 1/4” and 170lbs.  That can’t be correct.  Old numbers?

Also says Stutzle is 6’1” 187 and I didn’t think he was that big.  Ranking him over Byfield and Perfetti at 4 are flaming hot takes.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Curt

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

In there it says that Rossi is 5’8 1/4” and 170lbs.  That can’t be correct.  Old numbers?

Also says Stutzle is 6’1” 187 and I didn’t think he was that big.  Ranking him over Byfield and Perfetti at 4 are flaming hot takes.

I use Elite Prospects for my heights and weights until the combine. Rossi is listed at 5'9" 179lbs. 

As for Craig, I'll post his list but honestly it's more for others. I find he does really odd things and looking back I don't see his longer shots ever working. I think he picks a few guys and jacks their ranking to get clicks. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by LGR4GM

[North Buffalo]

https://www.hockeyprospect.com/hockeyprospect-com-2020-nhl-draft-rankings-top-31-january/

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

https://www.hockeyprospect.com/hockeyprospect-com-2020-nhl-draft-rankings-top-31-january/

I am terrified we will draft in the 8-10 range and even though more talented CHL talent will be there, Botterill will opt for a less talented USDP/USHL player. 

[Brawndo]

42 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am terrified we will draft in the 8-10 range and even though more talented CHL talent will be there, Botterill will opt for a less talented USDP/USHL player. 

Zegras, Boldy, York and Caufield were available at 7 and he took Cozens, so there is a small glimmer of hope. 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Zegras, Boldy, York and Caufield were available at 7 and he took Cozens, so there is a small glimmer of hope. 

How have the others besides Zegra panned out? Noticeably better options than Cozens?

[Brawndo]

21 minutes ago, WildCard said:

How have the others besides Zegra panned out? Noticeably better options than Cozens?

Caufield disappeared during the WJC.  The rest haven’t been been noticeable either. 
 

Also I would not even say that Zegras is noticeably better then Cozens in all aspects of the game

From Pronman 

Zegras was not an easy call for No. 1. I don’t think any prospect had a first half and toolkit that combined truly stood out and took this mantle easily. It came down to Zegras versus Dylan Cozens in the end.
 

 

I do think, among drafted prospects, Zegras is clearly the most talented player outside the NHL. His combination of skill and offensive IQ is elite. He makes plays that few others in the world can. As we saw at this year’s world juniors, when Zegras is at the top of his game he can take over a shift and create chances out of nothing.

His season hasn’t been perfect, though, like that world juniors would indicate. He’s been the go-to guy on an average Boston University team. He’s had brilliant games at the college level, but also average games. He was scratched once after taking a bad penalty.

One commenter pointed out recently that Zegras reminds them of Casey Mittelstadt at the same age. That’s not unfair and is in the back of my mind. Zegras, like Mittelstadt, is an elite playmaker with average feet and size who did not dominate college hockey as a freshman and had a great world juniors. I think Zegras has a better statistical track record, a tad more skill; and while Mittelstadt’s career hasn’t gone great since he was in college, there is a reason nine out of 10 scouts I talked to when he was 19 thought he was going to be a star. (You could also argue Zegras looks like Elias Pettersson at the same age without the shot). Prospect projection is about probability, not certainty, and in my opinion, with the skill, brain and track record of Zegras, he has the best probability of any drafted player to become an NHL star, even if I’m not overly confident in that outcome.

 

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I am terrified we will draft in the 8-10 range and even though more talented CHL talent will be there, Botterill will opt for a less talented USDP/USHL player. 

I’m just terrified they draft 8-10.   Let’s draft top 5 or 15 or better.  
then again, top 10 or so look pretty good this year. Could be another 2015 year 

[Curt]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I am terrified we will draft in the 8-10 range and even though more talented CHL talent will be there, Botterill will opt for a less talented USDP/USHL player. 

They went the CHL route in the same scenario last year.

10 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I’m just terrified they draft 8-10.   Let’s draft top 5 or 15 or better.  
then again, top 10 or so look pretty good this year. Could be another 2015 year 

Yes, the forward talent in the top half of the 1st is really good it seems.

Beyond Lafreniere and Byfield, there is Stutzle and Rossi who are both very dynamic potential stars.  Then there is Raymond, Holtz, Lundell.  I’m hoping that Buffalo can come away with one of those 7 forwards, but even beyond that there is Perfetti and Holloway who I don’t like as much but some people love.  Then there are guys like Mercer, Mysak, Zary, Bourque, among others, who could come on strong

[Two or less]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

Beyond Lafreniere and Byfield, there is Stutzle and Rossi who are both very dynamic potential stars.  Then there is Raymond, Holtz, Lundell.  I’m hoping that Buffalo can come away with one of those 7 forwards, but even beyond that there is Perfetti and Holloway who I don’t like as much but some people love.  Then there are guys like Mercer, Mysak, Zary, Bourque, among others, who could come on strong

I like Zary a lot more then many of the prospects in this draft beside the top 7. Think i would even take him over Lundell. Kid is a super smart player, high hockey IQ, plays a 200 foot game, and has excellent hands and a killer whist shot. Has been a scoring machine his entire life.

 

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Zegras, Boldy, York and Caufield were available at 7 and he took Cozens, so there is a small glimmer of hope. 

Exactly. Not sure why people would be terrified over? Same concerns fans had last year when people said we wouldn't even consider any of the CHL players and only were looking at the US kids and Boldy was a name constantly mentioned.

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Reino23 said:

I like Zary a lot more then many of the prospects in this draft beside the top 7. Think i would even take him over Lundell. Kid is a super smart player, high hockey IQ, plays a 200 foot game, and has excellent hands and a killer whist shot. Has been a scoring machine his entire life.

 

Exactly. Not sure why people would be terrified over? Same concerns fans had last year when people said we wouldn't even consider any of the CHL players and only were looking at the US kids and Boldy was a name constantly mentioned.

Outside of Cozens, in 18 picks, Botterill has not taken a single CHL player. That is why I worry. 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Reino23 said:

I like Zary a lot more then many of the prospects in this draft beside the top 7. Think i would even take him over Lundell. Kid is a super smart player, high hockey IQ, plays a 200 foot game, and has excellent hands and a killer whist shot. Has been a scoring machine his entire life.

I like Zary. The only critique I have is that I wish he had more speed. 

[DarthEbriate]

I don't have scanners on any of the kids, but the names Zary and Viro jump out at me as pretty cool to say and write. The only thing I can think overall of this year's draft is that, while BPA is always a good route, it'd be very nice for the BPA to be forwards the first few rounds this season. We're appearing well-stocked with defensemen for the next couple seasons and they take longer to mature. Forwards can often contribute within just a couple years (if they aren't a bust). Prioritize the forwards for this draft so we have a player or two who can make an positive impact in 2022-23.

[Brawndo]

On 1/17/2020 at 9:19 AM, LGR4GM said:

Outside of Cozens, in 18 picks, Botterill has not taken a single CHL player. That is why I worry. 

I maybe can see his point in rounds 4-7.  However taking low ceiling defenseman over Kaliyev, Robertson, and Noel is unacceptable. 
 

Interestingly the number of players drafted from the CHL has dropped by 17% over the past four drafts. 
 

Even Yzerman who found gold in the CHL many a times in Tampa did not draft a CHL Player for Detroit this past draft. 

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I maybe can see his point in rounds 4-7.  However taking low ceiling defenseman over Kaliyev, Robertson, and Noel is unacceptable. 
 

Interestingly the number of players drafted from the CHL has dropped by 17% over the past four drafts. 
 

Even Yzerman who found gold in the CHL many a times in Tampa did not draft a CHL Player for Detroit this past draft. 

The chl rules are old and disruptive to development. 

On a side note, Jean-luc Foudy is a hell of a skater. 

[Two or less]

A player that is also interesting to me is Jack Quinn. Right winger playing for the Ottawa 67's in the OHL. Smart player, has a mean game and likes to drop his gloves at times, but is a absolute lethal goal scorer. 34 goals in 40 games this season, 16 in his last 12 games played. Kid is on beast mode right now.

[Crusader1969]

Corey Pronmans mid season rankings out today:

Special NHL Prospect - Alexis Lafreniere

Special/Elite Bubble - Quinton Byfield

Elite/high-end bubble - Tim Stutzle, Marco Rossi & Yaroslav Askarov

High-End Prospect - Alexander Holtz, Lucas Raymond, Jamie Drysdale Cole Perfetti

High-End/Very Good Bubble - Connor Zary, Dawson Mercer, 

at this point, I  have a hard time believing the Sabres are going to pick anyone ranked below these prospects.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Crusader1969

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Corey Pronmans mid season rankings out today:

Special NHL Prospect - Alexis Lafreniere

Special/Elite Bubble - Quinton Byfield

Elite/high-end bubble - Tim Stutzle, Marco Rossi & Yaroslav Askarov

High-End Prospect - Alexander Holtz, Lucas Raymond, Jamie Drysdale Cole Perfetti

High-End/Very Good Bubble - Connor Zary, Dawson Mercer, 

at this point, I  have a hard time believing the Sabres are going to pick anyone ranked below these prospects.

I would add Anton Lundell to that “High End Prospect” group.  Do you know where Pronman had him, or what he said about him?

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I would add Anton Lundell to that “High End Prospect” group.  Do you know where Pronman had him, or what he said about him?

16. Anton Lundell, C, HIFK-Liiga

Oct. 3, 2001 | 6-foot-1 | 183 pounds

Previous ranking: No. 13

I’ve watched Lundell closely for three years – seeing him live at least 20 times and many more on video – and I still have no idea what to make of him. When I watch him play nothing about his game stands out. I think his skating is average and his skill is just above-average. But it’s hard to deny how much he scores everywhere he goes, especially versus men in Liiga the last two seasons, and how much coaches seem to trust him. I like his hockey sense a lot and think he competes very well. The question among NHL scouts is whether he’s a second- or third-line center in the league. I lean to second right now because of the track record.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

16. Anton Lundell, C, HIFK-Liiga

Oct. 3, 2001 | 6-foot-1 | 183 pounds

Previous ranking: No. 13

I’ve watched Lundell closely for three years – seeing him live at least 20 times and many more on video – and I still have no idea what to make of him. When I watch him play nothing about his game stands out. I think his skating is average and his skill is just above-average. But it’s hard to deny how much he scores everywhere he goes, especially versus men in Liiga the last two seasons, and how much coaches seem to trust him. I like his hockey sense a lot and think he competes very well. The question among NHL scouts is whether he’s a second- or third-line center in the league. I lean to second right now because of the track record.

Thank you Crusader.  I know Pronman tends to really value guys with fancy puck skills and super high end skating, right?  So I’m not surprised that he rates Lundell a little low.  I agree with Pronman’s breakdown, but value the player more.

Skating is fine, but won’t wow you.  Puck skills are decent, but nothing too fancy.  He has good size/strength, but isn’t overly physical.  However, his hockey IQ is excellent and it lets all his other skills play up. 

[Crusader1969]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

Thank you Crusader.  I know Pronman tends to really value guys with fancy puck skills and super high end skating, right?  So I’m not surprised that he rates Lundell a little low.  I agree with Pronman’s breakdown, but value the player more.

Skating is fine, but won’t wow you.  Puck skills are decent, but nothing too fancy.  He has good size/strength, but isn’t overly physical.  However, his hockey IQ is excellent and it lets all his other skills play up. 

Kinda sounds like Reinhart in his draft year? 

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

Kinda sounds like Reinhart in his draft year? 

In the sense of being substance over style, yes.  They are only kinda similar though.  Lundell seems like a no doubt C, good defensively at C in a pro league, has a good shot, probably not as good of a passer, is a stronger guy at the same age.  Just my take.

[Crusader1969]

TSN releases mid term rankings -

https://www.tsn.ca/alexis-lafreniere-enhances-no-1-status-in-tsn-s-mid-season-nhl-draft-ranking-1.1435201

 

With Hutton in net is a serious run at the top 5 is now plausible and maybe even likely? 

 

"Lafreniere is definitely a level above everyone in terms of his play this season," said one scout. "There's no disputing that. But where are these players going to be in their draft year plus one or plus two? I think there are a few guys [in this draft] who have [Elias] Pettersson-like potential."

Ah, yes, the 2017 NHL draft revisited. It's worth noting that in the draft run up that year, two centres - Nico Hischier and Nolan Patrick - established themselves as the top two prospects. Hischier, of course, went No. 1 overall to New Jersey and Patrick No. 2 to Philadelphia.

But Dallas took defenceman Miro Heiskanen at No. 3, Colorado selected defenceman Cale Makar at No. 4 and Vancouver took forward Elias Pettersson at No. 5. If one were to re-draft the 2017 prospects now, any one of or maybe even all three (Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson) would be taken ahead of Hischier and Patrick.

More than one scout surveyed by TSN thinks a similar dynamic may be possible this year with potential challenges to TSN's Nos. 1 and 2, Lafreniere and Byfield."

Edited January 30, 2020 by Crusader1969