Who Are the 2C and 3C Candidates Internal and External?

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

we know from last year that sheary - mittelstad - okposo doesn't work.   Lets not ruin casy for another year.

It didn’t work as a 2nd line.

I would OK with Mittelstadt Sheary KO as a 3rd line.

Separately, not sure why gambling on Roslovic as 2nd line centre is better then doing the same as Casey. The guy is less talented and put up similar numbers.

Edited July 5, 2019 by dudacek

[WildCard]

Casey will be better his year, I don't see why having him as our 2C this year with Reinhart the entire time is a bad thing

[TrueBlueGED]

6 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Casey will be better his year, I don't see why having him as our 2C this year with Reinhart the entire time is a bad thing

Because we're trying to make the playoffs. Casey wasn't an NHL player last year, so to have a better Casey could still be to utterly lack a 2C.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Because we're trying to make the playoffs. Casey wasn't an NHL player last year, so to have a better Casey could still be to utterly lack a 2C.

I think he makes a big jump this year; he was a rookie fresh out of college after all. Any move Botterill makes to potentially address 2C he's keeping in mind that he sees Casey as THE 2C within the next 2-3 years, so he's not going to break the bank on acquiring one

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Casey will be better his year, I don't see why having him as our 2C this year with Reinhart the entire time is a bad thing

It’s not impossible that it could work out well.  Casey could take steps forward and having Reinhart with him should help.

It’s a bad thing because we would like to have a more proven player at 2C.  Casey was not good at all last season.  Even if he is better next season, that still may not be good enough to be a quality 2C.  I would much rather depend on him to be 3C than 2C.

[TrueBlueGED]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

I think he makes a big jump this year; he was a rookie fresh out of college after all. Any move Botterill makes to potentially address 2C he's keeping in mind that he sees Casey as THE 2C within the next 2-3 years, so he's not going to break the bank on acquiring one

He can make a big jump and end up as...an adequate 3C on a good team. He'd have to take a nearly unprecedented leap to be a 2C on a good team next season. 

And you might be right as to Botterill's thinking. Of course, that thinking may lead him directly to the unemployment line. 

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Casey will be better his year, I don't see why having him as our 2C this year with Reinhart the entire time is a bad thing

Umm, because...

20 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Because we're trying to make the playoffs. Casey wasn't an NHL player last year, so to have a better Casey could still be to utterly lack a 2C.

this.  ^

16 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I think he makes a big jump this year; he was a rookie fresh out of college after all. Any move Botterill makes to potentially address 2C he's keeping in mind that he sees Casey as THE 2C within the next 2-3 years, so he's not going to break the bank on acquiring one

He will definitely be better than last season, perhaps significantly, but even if he does improve a lot ...

12 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

He can make a big jump and end up as...an adequate 3C on a good team. He'd have to take a nearly unprecedented leap to be a 2C on a good team next season. 

And you might be right as to Botterill's thinking. Of course, that thinking may lead him directly to the unemployment line. 

this is still true. ^

[Taro T]

And if they do bring in an Ehlers and can't / don't get outside help for 2C, pretty sure they'd be better off putting Rodrigues at 2C with 2 strong wings (either Sabres too 2 or 2 of the top 3) letting Mittelstadt center a true 3rd scoring line rather than doing the same for Mitts.  Bumping Mitts up to 2C has disaster written all over it.

NOT that I want to see them stand Pat on 2C in any way.

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

He can make a big jump and end up as...an adequate 3C on a good team. He'd have to take a nearly unprecedented leap to be a 2C on a good team next season. 

And you might be right as to Botterill's thinking. Of course, that thinking may lead him directly to the unemployment line. 

Casey had flaws that mitigate them, but he still put up adequate 3C numbers last year.

“He’s not an NHL player” is hyperbole that should be reserved for Tage.

I don’t think anyone expects Casey to turn into an ROR-level player next year, but a 15-20 point jump certainly isn’t unusual for a young player.

Aho 49-65-83

Point 40-66-92

Labanc 20-40-56

Schmaltz 28-52

Tuch 37-52

Rantanen 38-84-87

Konecny 28-47-49

Meier 6-36-66

White 6-41

 

 

 

 

 

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Casey had flaws that mitigate them, but he still put up adequate 3C numbers last year.

 “He’s not an NHL player” is hyperbole that should be reserved for Tage.

Casey had 9 goals and 6 assists at ES last season.  11:40 ES TOI.  That’s pretty bad production.  His shot share numbers were not good compared to other Sabres.  40% on FO’s.  He wasn’t a good 3C last season.  

Girgensons and Okposo outproduced him at ES.  He barely produced more than Larsson, Sobotka and TT at ES.  

That being said, I think he will improve.  I hope that next season he can be a good 3C, and keep improving from there.

[TrueBlueGED]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Casey had flaws that mitigate them, but he still put up adequate 3C numbers last year.

“He’s not an NHL player” is hyperbole that should be reserved for Tage.

I don’t think anyone expects Casey to turn into an ROR-level player next year, but a 15-20 point jump certainly isn’t unusual for a young player.

Aho 49-65-83

Point 40-66-92

Labanc 20-40-56

Schmaltz 28-52

Tuch 37-52

Rantanen 38-84-87

Konecny 28-47-49

Meier 6-36-66

White 6-41

 

 

 

 

 

See the excellent post by @Curt for most of my rebuttal. If the goal is to be a good team, he can't be the plan at 2C. Just can't be. If he surprised and makes a jump, then awesome, we'll actually have center depth. 

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

See the excellent post by @Curt for most of my rebuttal. If the goal is to be a good team, he can't be the plan at 2C. Just can't be. If he surprised and makes a jump, then awesome, we'll actually have center depth. 

My point was simply that it shouldn’t be a surprise if he makes a jump to the 40-50 point plateau. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly.

I also see a growing likelihood that even though he can’t be the plan, he could end up being our best option at 2C because we can’t wrangle a deal for a real one and the Turris type we pick up as a stop-gap fails.

 

[TrueBlueGED]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

My point was simply that it shouldn’t be a surprise if he makes a jump to the 40-50 point plateau. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly.

I also see a growing likelihood that even though he can’t be the plan, he could end up being our best option at 2C because we can’t wrangle a deal for a real one and the Turris type we pick up as a stop-gap fails.

 

???

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

???

You see it too, don’t you? ?

[Curt]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

My point was simply that it shouldn’t be a surprise if he makes a jump to the 40-50 point plateau. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly.

I also see a growing likelihood that even though he can’t be the plan, he could end up being our best option at 2C because we can’t wrangle a deal for a real one and the Turris type we pick up as a stop-gap fails.

I wouldn’t be surprised exactly, but I wouldn’t call it likely either.  The talent is there, but he hasn’t put it together yet.  I think that depending upon that type of improvement is unwise.

If Buffalo hopes to seriously be a playoff team, I don’t think you can go into the season expecting Mittelstadt (or Turris for that matter) to be the 2C.  You could be right about that sort of being the end result though.  It’s been a slow, conservative build so far.  It very well may continue that way into next season.

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, dudacek said:

You see it too, don’t you? ?

Yes, and I'm not entirely convinced it'll be because Botterill struck out. I think there's at least an even chance that he simply believes Mittelstadt can do it in year 2.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Because we're trying to make the playoffs. Casey wasn't an NHL player last year, so to have a better Casey could still be to utterly lack a 2C.

Didn't you get the memo? Krueger's first year is an evaluation year, of course. 

[Thorner]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

My point was simply that it shouldn’t be a surprise if he makes a jump to the 40-50 point plateau. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly.

I also see a growing likelihood that even though he can’t be the plan, he could end up being our best option at 2C because we can’t wrangle a deal for a real one and the Turris type we pick up as a stop-gap fails.

 

If Botterill doesn't have a 2c going into his third season and we miss the playoffs, he needs to be fired. Like 100% 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Thorny

[Marvin]

50 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If Botterill doesn't have a 2c going into his third season and we miss the playoffs, he needs to be fired. Like 100% 

Like Commissioner James Gordon in the 1967 Batman movie, I have a thought so terrible that I daren't give it utterance.  Even worse than Mittlestadt and Turris.

"Holy nightmare!"

Edited July 5, 2019 by E4 ... Ke2

[Randall Flagg]

5 hours ago, WildCard said:

I think he makes a big jump this year; he was a rookie fresh out of college after all. Any move Botterill makes to potentially address 2C he's keeping in mind that he sees Casey as THE 2C within the next 2-3 years, so he's not going to break the bank on acquiring one

1.) I don't 

2.) Making a plan on an assumption like this does things like give your team the worst center depth behind the 1C in the league, in fact, it happened to us just last year with the same player

[WildCard]

16 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

1.) I don't 

2.) Making a plan on an assumption like this does things like give your team the worst center depth behind the 1C in the league, in fact, it happened to us just last year with the same player

Casey isn't the same player. I understand he's not a 2C right now but let's not act like he's the same, 25pt player 

[Marvin]

A debate about the sabres #2C potentially not being up to the task and the GM does not seem to have a back-up plan?  Let me check my command history.

$ cd /opt/sabres/

$ vim  sabres_centre_debates.2009

:%s/Owner B. Thomas Golisano/Owner Terry and Kim Pegula/g

:1

:%s/GM Darcy Regier/GM Jason Botterill/g

:1

:%s/2C 19 Tim Connolly/2C 37 Casey Mittlestadt/g

:wq

$ diff -w sabres_centre_debates.2009 sabres_centre_debates.2019

$

 

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

If Botterill doesn't have a 2c going into his third season and we miss the playoffs, he needs to be fired. Like 100% 

Well, it wouldn’t be his 3rd season with no #2C, as ROR was there for 1 year.  

I agree that he needs to acquire a viable center though.  And I wish @dudacekwould stop lobbying for another questionable BC guy in Turris, because I’m growing increasingly concerned that he’s the guy we end up with and the likelihood of him being lousy for most of that albatross contract is extremely high.  

(Although I think JB is too smart to take Turris unless KO is going the other way.)

[Randall Flagg]

45 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Casey isn't the same player. I understand he's not a 2C right now but let's not act like he's the same, 25pt player 

The gap between him and a 2C on a weak roster in this eastern conference isn't something I'd even bet a penny on him crossing in one offseason full of golf and fortnite so far by the looks of it 

(Yes, I am sure he's training hard haha)

He doesn't have some natural niche as an elite player among his peers such that it should be expected he slides into that position ever, even - check out any of his past three seasons - whatever success he gets he's going to have to work his tail off for, and it's going to take time 

This can't even be a backup plan for Jack Eichel's fifth season, Jason Botterill's third, Dahlin's second ELC year, after the last six years we've just gone through, given what the roster looks like now.

[sweetlou]

I don't mind Casey being the #2 but let him play with Reinhart for more then 3 shifts.  I still think a player like Ferland is what this team needs.

Skinner- Eichel- Vesey

Ferland- Mitts- Reinhart

Sheary- ERod- Nylander

Girgensons- Larsson- Okposo