Risto said it's time for him to go?

[Ducky]

On 5/23/2019 at 2:05 PM, dudacek said:

Athletic talks potential Risto trade scenarios today. Here are the interested teams:

Oilers would do it for a worse defenceman (Sekera, Russell) or Milan Lucic!

Jets: Trouba on the block

Canucks: Virtanen and/or prospects

Lightning: Tyler Johnson

Flyers: picks and lesser prospects

The piece is speculative on the reporters’ part, but Trouba was the only name on there that would tempt me to trade Risto. Other than Johnson, who would have to waive, the rest was a bunch of other team’s crap. If that is truly the market right now for Risto, he should be going nowhere.

Risto doesn't get you Trouba, sorry.

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Risto doesn't get you Trouba, sorry.

Unless you get a team certain they can re-sign him, I’d look at what the Sabres paid to get Skinner last year or what the Jackets paid for Duchene as a good starting point for Trouba’s market value.

He’s a pending UFA who is going to be very picky about who he will let pay him considerably more than market value.

[freester]

I think Winnipeg would do Ristolainen for Trouba.  They need a right D and Ristolainen has a decent cap number. Sabres would have to have a contract in place before the trade.  

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, Ducky said:

Risto doesn't get you Trouba, sorry.

LeBrun mentioned that Ehlers might be the odd man out for cap reasons. What’s the asking price on him from Winnipeg Fans? 

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Unless you get a team certain they can re-sign him, I’d look at what the Sabres paid to get Skinner last year or what the Jackets paid for Duchene as a good starting point for Trouba’s market value.

He’s a pending UFA who is going to be very picky about who he will let pay him considerably more than market value.

Trouba is a 25 year old RFA.  Very different from Skinner last year.   Although I think the only teams in on that trade will be one where his agent agrees to a long term extension.  

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Trouba is a 25 year old RFA.  Very different from Skinner last year.   Although I think the only teams in on that trade will be one where his agent agrees to a long term extension.  

Trouba is an RFA who intends to sign a one-year deal (likely from arbitration) that will make him a UFA next summer. It is generally accepted he is not going to re-sign in the Peg. 

That will effectively put him in exactly the same position this summer that Skinner was last summer, which is why he is being shopped.

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Trouba is an RFA who intends to sign a one-year deal (likely from arbitration) that will make him a UFA next summer. It is generally accepted he is not going to re-sign in the Peg. 

That will effectively put him in exactly the same position this summer that Skinner was last summer, which is why he is being shopped.

All this is true.   What I am suggesting is factors such as his age (1+ younger), no NMC, and being a RD shut down top pair that plays PP & PK makes his value much higher than Skinner.   The circumstances and their similarities provide an explanation of why he is being shopped, but other factors suggest the market value is not equal.   Some sources suggest Risto, P31 and a prospect (M. Davidson) would be required.  That is not even close to Skinners market value last summer, otherwise Carolina wouldn’t have accepted the offer they did from JB.   You can also throw in the fact the Organizations are in different places too.  Winnipeg is in win now mode, where Carolina probably was looking to the future when they pulled the trigger on Jeff.  Keeping Trouba might make more sense for them than moving him before the season.

[dudacek]

Oh, I agree he will get more than Skinner. 1st instead of a 2nd and a better prospect than Pu for a minimum.

But the package you posted would more in line with a Trouba you know you can sign, not Trouba for one year.

[sweetlou]

I was watching Rask highlights from years with Carolina when he played a lot with Skinner and they played well together.  I did come across this beauty which gives a perfect example of why Risto must be moved.  

 

Just spinning around in circles in front of the goalie?? Doesn't even know where the puck is.

 

Seeing what return Pittsburgh got for Matta, Buffalo would definitely get a lot more.

 

[SwampD]

47 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

I was watching Rask highlights from years with Carolina when he played a lot with Skinner and they played well together.  I did come across this beauty which gives a perfect example of why Risto must be moved.  

 

Just spinning around in circles in front of the goalie?? Doesn't even know where the puck is.

 

Seeing what return Pittsburgh got for Matta, Buffalo would definitely get a lot more.

 

It was Reinhart's guy that scored.

I don't want to trade him either.

[Ducky]

On 6/15/2019 at 2:44 PM, Brawndo said:

LeBrun mentioned that Ehlers might be the odd man out for cap reasons. What’s the asking price on him from Winnipeg Fans? 

I think Kulikov and Perreault are moved to make cap space. 

[TrueBlueGED]

On the left we have Rasmus Ristolainen. On the right we have what his fans believe he'll be when he's in a better situation and role. The caveat is that Lindholm's usage was very similar to Risto's, he's the same age, and his team was also hot garbage. Why can Lindholm overcome these things and Risto sinks? 

 

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

On the left we have Rasmus Ristolainen. On the right we have what his fans believe he'll be when he's in a better situation and role. The caveat is that Lindholm's usage was very similar to Risto's, he's the same age, and his team was also hot garbage. Why can Lindholm overcome these things and Risto sinks? 

 

Because Lindholm is better than Risto? So are other top four defensemen. That doesn’t mean Risto isn’t a top four defensemen. Not to mention, someone posted Risto’s numbers over a 32 game stretch last year and they are the kind that anyone here would love. Why is it hard to believe that isn’t a sign of poor usage?

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, #freejame said:

Because Lindholm is better than Risto? So are other top four defensemen. That doesn’t mean Risto isn’t a top four defensemen. Not to mention, someone posted Risto’s numbers over a 32 game stretch last year and they are the kind that anyone here would love. Why is it hard to believe that isn’t a sign of poor usage?

Because he's played 425 games in his career, so taking a 32 game sample is kind of nuts? Actually, a 32 game sample from any player is nuts, so that's not unique to Risto, it's just a bad argument.

[#freejame]

4 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Because he's played 425 games in his career, so taking a 32 game sample is kind of nuts? Actually, a 32 game sample from any player is nuts, so that's not unique to Risto, it's just a bad argument.

Or Risto can’t handle going that hard for that long. I’d like to see a breakdown of Risto by quarter per year. That would help distinguish whether he’s wearing down. Though it doesn’t help show if he’s overmatched, it gives some insight into usage. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by #freejame
The sample was from when the Sabres were winning early on

[#freejame]

Would Risto perform better or worse on a team if he were the team’s fourth defensemen?

[TrueBlueGED]

3 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Would Risto perform better or worse on a team if he were the team’s fourth defensemen?

The research that's been done on player usage would suggest he'd perform mostly the same.

[Tondas]

8 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Would Risto perform better or worse on a team if he were the team’s fourth defensemen?

Same.  Risto is Risto.  The one thing that Risto hasn't mastered is using his defense partner to his best advantage.  He is extremely poor at reversing and using his defense partner as an out and to bail him out in tough situations.  He tends to try to bring it out himself or just ring it around the boards.  His situational awareness is his weakness.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Tondas

[#freejame]

Of the 31 defensemen who occupy their respective teams fourth spot, where would Risto rank?

[Tondas]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

Of the 31 defensemen who occupy their respective teams fourth spot, where would Risto rank?

Bottom third.

[TrueBlueGED]

2 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Of the 31 defensemen who occupy their respective teams fourth spot, where would Risto rank?

Want to list every team's 4th best defenseman for me? Because I'm not doing that legwork. If you do, I'll happily rank them.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Want to list every team's 4th best defenseman for me? Because I'm not doing that legwork. If you do, I'll happily rank them.

And I'll happily pay you on Tuesday, for a hamburger today. 

[Curt]

Legit question.  Do we actually have any examples of players who pretty consistently put up bad shot metrics (Corsi) for years, they either moved to another team or had a significant change in usage that led to them then putting up consistently better shot metrics?

What precedent is there for this thing that some people claim would happen with Risto?

[TrueBlueGED]

17 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

Legit question.  Do we actually have any examples of players who pretty consistently put up bad shot metrics (Corsi) for years, they either moved to another team or had a significant change in usage that led to them then putting up consistently better shot metrics?

What precedent is there for this thing that some people claim would happen with Risto?

Not that I'm aware of. Jack Johnson, for example, has been on teams of varying quality but puts up remarkably consistent (and poor) shot metrics.

[Brawndo]

How many Number 4 Defenseman are making 5.4 Million?

Are we willing to possibly lose him for nothing in the expansion draft in two years? If he is the 4th Defenseman on the Depth Chart it makes sense he would not be protected and Seattle would grab a RHD who can play on the PP. 

There is a large body of evidence that Risto is what he is. 

Now is the time to move him for the right deal