Risto said it's time for him to go?

[Derrico]

2 minutes ago, LTS said:

Damn.. give the man a minute.  He's been away for awhile.  His skills need time to recover.  

Like ridin a bike....

[Randall Flagg]

I asked Chad on twitter so we'll see if he responds, so I have a link to show you. I don't have time to actually search back to whenever he first found it because I don't know how to search twitter and he tweets 100 times per day 

[Derrico]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I asked Chad on twitter so we'll see if he responds, so I have a link to show you. I don't have time to actually search back to whenever he first found it because I don't know how to search twitter and he tweets 100 times per day 

You have been missed.  Good discussion.  Let's hope we get a trade soon.

[Randall Flagg]

So Schopp is making it sound like Ristolainen isn't getting traded, what did I miss in that regard? Is the discussion over in the rumor thread or something?

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

So Schopp is making it sound like Ristolainen isn't getting traded, what did I miss in that regard? Is the discussion over in the rumor thread or something?

It's because Botterill talked him up as "still developing".  He seemed to think that the GM should just tell everyone what he really thinks of the player in a press conference.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, E4 ... Ke2 said:

It's because Botterill talked him up as "still developing".  He seemed to think that the GM should just tell everyone what he really thinks of the player in a press conference.

Ah that's really it? Yeah, that doesn't mean anything haha.

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Ah that's really it? Yeah, that doesn't mean anything haha.

He also wants Ristolainen out badly.  He got flat out depressed when Botterill spoke about Ristolainen.

[nfreeman]

23 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Edit: the source is that Chad guy that Hoss is dubious about, so take that for what it's worth. Chad appears on WGR shows so he's not some idiot, but who knows what he really knows, but why would he lie too, is the thing.

The other trade was MTL: Poehling, Danault, 2nd. Poehling is going to be a stud and Danault >>> the NHL stuff we got. 

My only point is that our deal was not the best we could do, Botterill was just mistaken about the quality of the pieces he got, and assumed more was better. 

I also bet money that Chayka would have moved Domi for him straight up over galchenyuk since Chayka is an analytics nut and analytics saw through ROR's minus 23 and called him a Selke caliber player even in 17-18, but that's just me pontificating. And we know he was interested because there is video of him talking to Jason about ROR at the draft. I suspect Jason really just wanted volume, as that was the predominant narrative coming from the gossip guys.

So -- the source for the Lindholm possibility was a poster on an inferior Sabres board you were slutting around on summarizing someone else?

And was that the same source for the possible MTL trade?

That doesn't sound like good support for "we know JB turned down better offers."

I'm still glad you're back though.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, nfreeman said:

So -- the source for the Lindholm possibility was a poster on an inferior Sabres board you were slutting around on summarizing someone else?

And was that the same source for the possible MTL trade?

That doesn't sound like good support for "we know JB turned down better offers."

I'm still glad you're back though.

? Just reading nfreeman i swear

i needed to find myself and grow as a person

Yes. And maybe it's not good support, but if Chad knows something, I would right now and at the time trip over my feet trading what we got for each of those offers, since I dont' like having a quitter, two of the ~five worst skaters in the league with essentially two second round picks, one of which is 3 drafts into the future. 

The main point being, the return was obviously garbage, and many of us argued that at the time, and are completely skeptical of a general narrative that we were at the mercy of the gods in terms of how everything has played out in the whole saga. Our GM hired a coach that spent an entire season doing stuff well-documented at the time to suppress the on-ice and therefore trade value of their second most valuable asset, and then suppressed it even more again for ownership purposes with the bonus, and then made the move for what turned out to be garbage, and it's on Jason even if ROR was the grumpiest cranky pants in the world. Jason can and likely would own his mistake, it's his on multiple levels. 

[nfreeman]

20 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

? Just reading nfreeman i swear

i needed to find myself and grow as a person

Yes. And maybe it's not good support, but if Chad knows something, I would right now and at the time trip over my feet trading what we got for each of those offers, since I dont' like having a quitter, two of the ~five worst skaters in the league with essentially two second round picks, one of which is 3 drafts into the future. 

The main point being, the return was obviously garbage, and many of us argued that at the time, and are completely skeptical of a general narrative that we were at the mercy of the gods in terms of how everything has played out in the whole saga. Our GM hired a coach that spent an entire season doing stuff well-documented at the time to suppress the on-ice and therefore trade value of their second most valuable asset, and then suppressed it even more again for ownership purposes with the bonus, and then made the move for what turned out to be garbage, and it's on Jason even if ROR was the grumpiest cranky pants in the world. Jason can and likely would own his mistake, it's his on multiple levels.  

1st bolded -- still working on that myself.

2nd bolded -- totally agree.

[Randall Flagg]

Woof, jame burned me. 

Chad says that "they (Buffalo) were high on Lindholm and he probably would have been a part of it." Not reporting that we turned it down like jame claimed.

Though I change nothing about the substance of my earlier posts, I'll sit in the corner with the dunce hat. Don't trust the internet, folks

Edited June 21, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Derrico said:

Man this is such a great point.  I"m sure it was Pegs telling Botts to make the move.  I'm not even going to string Terry up for that.  Can't blame him to be honest.

Pure speculation. All we know is that Botterill made the move. It seems likely the "don't pay the bonus" thing is true, but unless we hear otherwise, it was Botterill's decision in the first place to deal him. 

[WildCard]

50 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

So Schopp is making it sound like Ristolainen isn't getting traded, what did I miss in that regard? Is the discussion over in the rumor thread or something?

Yeah it's been around for the last couple of days, slowly rising. Basically the belief is Risto was gone before Krueger came in and took a look. Krueger likes a challenge and thinks he can turn him around, so they're going to keep him unless we get a deal we can't refuse 

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, WildCard said:

Yeah it's been around for the last couple of days, slowly rising. Basically the belief is Risto was gone before Krueger came in and took a look. Krueger likes a challenge and thinks he can turn him around, so they're going to keep him unless we get a deal we can't refuse 

If true (big if), Botts continues to dig his own grave. 

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, WildCard said:

Yeah it's been around for the last couple of days, slowly rising. Basically the belief is Risto was gone before Krueger came in and took a look. Krueger likes a challenge and thinks he can turn him around, so they're going to keep him unless we get a deal we can't refuse 

Man, Krueger doesn't strike me as some technical savant. That thought process is a little scary

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

If true (big if), Botts continues to dig his own grave. 

 

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

Man, Krueger doesn't strike me as some technical savant. That thought process is a little scary

I can't find it but McKenzie also has a quote saying something to the affect of the belief around the league is the Sabres ruined Risto, and he can still improve/grow if instructed well 

[TrueBlueGED]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

 

I can't find it but McKenzie also has a quote saying something to the affect of the belief around the league is the Sabres ruined Risto, and he can still improve/grow if instructed well 

This is why he should be traded. You have GMs, competing against one another, who actually think he's a top pairing Dman? Trade that man while you have this market. Trade him! 

[Derrico]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Pure speculation. All we know is that Botterill made the move. It seems likely the "don't pay the bonus" thing is true, but unless we hear otherwise, it was Botterill's decision in the first place to deal him. 

Absolutely.  Same as the other side.  

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

Absolutely.  Same as the other side.  

Right but the default should be that Botterill made the decision to move him unless we hear otherwise. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Thorny

[Derrico]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Right but the default should be that Botterill made the decision to move him unless we hear otherwise. 

He had absolutely no reason to trade prior to the bonus.  It's not his money.  There was no reason not to wait unless he was told.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, Derrico said:

He had absolutely no reason to trade prior to the bonus.  It's not his money.  There was no reason not to wait unless he was told.

I think Thorny is talking about the decision more broadly, not when to do it.

[Randall Flagg]

The idea that they want to see Risto with Krueger first just reminds me of PH and JB wanting a full evaluation season, and so not leaning on the previous season's tape/results. They subsequently loaded up on tank-level forwards and finished in last place. That initial decision rippled all the way to the NHL award ceremony last night in more than one way. 

I guess I'd just love to hear specifics on what they think Risto's problems are, and what the plan is to fix them. Partly because I'm not comfortable claiming I know what the problem with Risto is 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The idea that they want to see Risto with Krueger first just reminds me of PH and JB wanting a full evaluation season, and so not leaning on the previous season's tape/results. They subsequently loaded up on tank-level forwards and finished in last place. That initial decision rippled all the way to the NHL award ceremony last night in more than one way. 

I guess I'd just love to hear specifics on what they think Risto's problems are, and what the plan is to fix them. Partly because I'm not comfortable claiming I know what the problem with Risto is 

Definitely. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. 

[SwampD]

9 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

This is why some people love Risto:

This is why others hate him:

(wide open partner, chooses his trademark play instead, Sabres never possess the puck again before Chicago scores, and Risto was off the ice and avoided the "minus" for the play) 

And if the forward at center ice would have collected the pass it would have been a two on one against that defenseman. But I guess this is the era of low event, safe hockey.

Legit question, other than the hit, did he show up on the stat sheet for that first play? I know he didn’t get the zone exit.

7 hours ago, LTS said:

I really meant on this topic.  Not using the ignore function.  And yes, it is, but there are people who are going to ignore that information.  They'll claim you are adhering to crazy apologist theories and choose to ignore that they are also clinging to their accusatory theories with equal strength.  For people like you and me, we look at the information that surrounds the move itself and begin to think, no reasonable GM would do it unless there was something there.  For others, they will just claim Botterill is that unreasonable GM.

In the end, he's still going to believe that the Botterill vaccine causes autism.

This is a political post and should be reported,... but it funny, so ***** it.?

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

So Schopp is making it sound like Ristolainen isn't getting traded, what did I miss in that regard? Is the discussion over in the rumor thread or something?

He has become unlistenable again about this. Stats are valuable, but they are only a measure of certain aspects of a players game (as your video post shows us). They are not the entire picture.

[#freejame]

5 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Woof, jame burned me. 

Chad says that "they (Buffalo) were high on Lindholm and he probably would have been a part of it." Not reporting that we turned it down like jame claimed.

Though I change nothing about the substance of my earlier posts, I'll sit in the corner with the dunce hat. Don't trust the internet, folks

Jame is back?!?